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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 01:34 AM   #46
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Well since shes turning 23 next month. Shes gonna have to make some tough decisions. Not only with her team but with her career. She needs to dig deep and find her confidence. Right now as i am noticing. Her mental strength is almost as bad as Lisicki and Ivanovic. She needs to step up her game and add more variety into her game. If she doesnt add more variety then shes gonna be even more brainless without any clue of what she needs to do to beat the top players. She needs a new voice. But its gonna be hard because she is as stubborn as Caro. So i dunno. Maybe some miracle will happen.

The irony is: She's got all the variety she's ever going to need (just check 2011 YEC, Linz, Wimby, and 2012 Montreal, New Haven and French Open). She just needs to utilize it more. For some reason she wants to impersonate a ball basher so often, because she's woefully out of form, and has no control over her strokes, instincts and footwork.

An inform Petra is hitting all types of slices, spins, top spins, drop shots, short hops, funky shots, and coming into the net, along with all that power.

Right now, both Petra and her team are a wreck. Agreed!

I see Martina is crying out even louder than the past regarding a potential Petra intervention. However, I don't know how much you can help someone, until/unless they want it themselves. And right now, I'm not sure Petra does. She's in her own world.

She must have some type of comfort zone with the clowns (sorry Petronius), I meant the folks she's surrounded herself with. She doesn't appear to 'want it' at the moment.

We'll see? If she doesn't make changes on her own soon, it may take her 6mos-3 years before she re-discovers herself again, if ever at all? The clock is ticking.

Good Luck Petra and Martina.
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Old Feb 14th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #47
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Old Feb 14th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #48
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #49
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

In honor and in light of Petra's recent Doha Fold-a-roo to Serena today (you know I was going to wait to see if Petra lost, right). Here's what I said right before the match (that appeared so eminently winnable as Petra was in charge).

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I hope Petra sincerely believes in herself today.

I'm not sure how much her team helps though

I remember a couple of years a go (after Petra won Wimbledon and before Serena lost the US Open finals to Stosur, or maybe 2012, Pre Australian, with all the Petra Hype), Koytyza was being interviewed. And during this interview when asked about 'who the best player in tennis is", Kotyza said "I don't care what anyone says, Serena Williams is the best player in Tennis when playing well. No one can beat her", etc.. And he never once mentioned Petra during this exchange. I remember saying to myself, "A lot of people think YOUR player is unbeatable [Kotyza] when playing well, so thanks for the confidence booster David!"

Now mind you, Serena was not only NOT playing well at the time, but Kotyza didn't say anything like, "but my player, when playing her best can certainly contend with Serena/may have a chance, especially if Williams not playing her best; the match is won on the court, not match ups", etc.. Nothing of the sort!

I remember saying to myself "this is the guy that prepares her for matches"?

There's no pressure on Petra. She's just got to go out there and play her game, and clean up all the silly mistakes (is that asking too much) from yesterdays match, now that she has two under her belt. I haven't watched Serena at all.

We'll see?

Good Luck Petra!!
Obviously, Petra didn't, as she had two chances (with a 4-1 lead at one point) to hold and take/keep the acendency after a break, clearly able to win the match, and she coughed up two horrible service games.

Nothings improved (despite what we seen this game; it was just cause she was playing Serena), her coaching, belief and mentality still sucks!!

She acted like she was satisfied with playing Serena a good match, instead of slitting her throat when she had her chances to win the Match.
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #50
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

Today showed that her coaching and team is not the primary issue. She played great tennis for 1.5 sets. Then her mental strength slipped a little and she started DFing at critical points. That is something coaching can't change. Sure a coach can - and sure her team does - counsel her on how to deal with it but it is on her to implement that. And it is very tough to make that type of shift. Even psychologists have a tough time getting folks to succeed with that sort of change.
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #51
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Today showed that her coaching and team is not the primary issue. She played great tennis for 1.5 sets. Then her mental strength slipped a little and she started DFing at critical points. That is something coaching can't change. Sure a coach can - and sure her team does - counsel her on how to deal with it but it is on her to implement that. And it is very tough to make that type of shift. Even psychologists have a tough time getting folks to succeed with that sort of change.
The reason why her coaching (and/or Petra) are still an issue, cause it shows she's not motivated to play match. That's the problem. We always new she would play some good matches here and there or be hot and cold. But she's not always motivated.

All year, she's been playing like crap. Where was this sort of tennis from her (even with all her ups and downs after the second set)??? Is it cause she knew she had to play well today?

Petra folding when it counted, is just another matter--regarding her lack of belief in herself or beating Serena today.

There are no moral victories, when the match was so winnable, and you've been having a crappy year.

Nonetheless, let's see what she does in future tournaments, and if she builds off of it.
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 06:05 PM   #52
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

i think it's all of the above...she needs an entirely new team because she's no longer improving...just staying stagnant when there's so much that can be improved upon...and now to add to her list of problems, her serve is no longer reliable...has become just too erratic at the wrong moments

i also agree that mentally...she doesn't seem to be all there as a top player...just DOES NOT play the big points well at all...we've seen it time and time against Sharapova...and now today...it was visible against Serena again...

i mean, 4-1 in the 3rd set...serena obviously was not playing well...ready to concede at that point..and petra just gifts her the game...after the 1st DF...she should've been more conservative w/ her 1st serve, taken a little bit off, and just get it in...
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 07:05 PM   #53
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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The reason why her coaching (and/or Petra) are still an issue, cause it shows she's not motivated to play match. That's the problem. We always new she would play some good matches here and there or be hot and cold. But she's not always motivated.
We've switched have we? Remember when I was being bashed for questioning Kvitova's motivation.

Anyway - a coaching team cannot provide motivation. That has to come from herself. Even with a sports psychologist, one has to be motivated to do what they advise. Take the WS - IMO the reason Serena outdid Venus is in large part because she an uncommonly intense drive to win. Apart from her serve there is no part of her game that is tons' better than Venus. But her psyche is a whole different thing.
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #54
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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i think it's all of the above...she needs an entirely new team because she's no longer improving...just staying stagnant when there's so much that can be improved upon...and now to add to her list of problems, her serve is no longer reliable...has become just too erratic at the wrong moments

i also agree that mentally...she doesn't seem to be all there as a top player...just DOES NOT play the big points well at all...we've seen it time and time against Sharapova...and now today...it was visible against Serena again...

i mean, 4-1 in the 3rd set...serena obviously was not playing well...ready to concede at that point..and petra just gifts her the game...after the 1st DF...she should've been more conservative w/ her 1st serve, taken a little bit off, and just get it in...
We're lacking one co-signer for our letter to Navratilova;does your post above signify that you would like your name added to the list??

'P.o.v.' has things PARTLY correct again;motivation ultimately must come from within.Her error is in claiming that coaches and others are powerless to give motivational boosts...or that it's almost impossible to change.I'll agree that it's not the MAJORITY of undermotivated who become more determined,but it DOES happen much more than very rarely.A prime example that comes to mind is MLB pitcher Curt Schilling who used to have lazy work habits before being pulled aside--literally grabbed by his shirt collar--by ace Roger Clemens.Schilling cites that moment as a turning point in his stellar career.This does not prove,in ANY way,that someone could do that with Petra...but it's far more than a ridiculous longshot.
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #55
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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We're lacking one co-signer for our letter to Navratilova;does your post above signify that you would like your name added to the list??

'P.o.v.' has things PARTLY correct again;motivation ultimately must come from within.Her error is in claiming that coaches and others are powerless to give motivational boosts...or that it's almost impossible to change.I'll agree that it's not the MAJORITY of undermotivated who become more determined,but it DOES happen much more than very rarely.A prime example that comes to mind is MLB pitcher Curt Schilling who used to have lazy work habits before being pulled aside--literally grabbed by his shirt collar--by ace Roger Clemens.Schilling cites that moment as a turning point in his stellar career.This does not prove,in ANY way,that someone could do that with Petra...but it's far more than a ridiculous longshot.
Good Points Bruce.

There have been many great players, who've noted that new coaching helped their careers, or them find Greatness. That's not uncommon.

Pete Sampras was the one, I've mentioned most recently.

He said after he won his first major/the US Open, " I was lost, lazy, was afraid defending my title, and didn't know what to make out of my tennis career".

Sampras said (this was all on a Tennis Channel program, profiling his career), once he found Tim Gullickson, his work habits, reckless aspects of his game, and belief/consistency changed. You know, the proverbial light bulb clicked in him.

The example--you gave of Curt Shilling and Roger Clemens, is more frequent than we realize. A lot of great players, credit a coach in their life, for believing in them/giving them confidence, work habits or honing/working on their skill.

This is not to say, a good/great coach, can make a mediocre player great. Of course not. That's another situation. However, a good/great coach, can make a very talented player, nonperforming athlete,who's just missing a few things/aspects, a potential great player or winner. Of course it's up to the individual--receiving the good suggestions/coaching, to respond/take the advice as well. It's a two way street. But once again, that's where coaching comes in. Some people can reach other people, click, and/or get their message across better.

And we know Petra already has that ability, cause we've seen it.

She just needs a mental connection with a good coach, and/or advisor, who can also teach her how to win tennis matches--on this level, and believe in herself again.

PS: Coach Glen Mills, with Usain Bolt is another one of many that comes to mind. Bolt (who was a very decorated, high achiever as a Junior) credits most of his success to Mills, as he was an underachiever his first 3-4 years after he turned pro, and admitted he was lazy and partied too much. Bolt's ability, and hard work took care of the rest.

And I think Psychologist only work so well. A great coach is also a great psychologist. And those coaches can also talk the language of your sport, and make it more real, simple and palatable to listen to and act on. Plus, you can't bullshit them (cause they know the sport/been there, unlike a shrink), while they're your peers. Big difference.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My attack on Kotyza, wasn't for this match (though a good coach, should teach you how not to get nervous, stick to your game plan, and should have fixed/noticed the flaw in Petra's serve you hope). I was just pointing out that the tennis and movement was in her. Petra just doesn't show up and play well most time (or give a damn). And it wasn't always like that.

This has to do with preparation (mentally, physically, skill wise) me thinks!
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #56
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

Very detailed,thoughtful analysis,Ex,but 'TennisFan' just disappeared right after posting and refused to give his consent(even though he seems to agree with everything that we've been touching on).Maybe it would make a difference if YOU asked him(or QPF)instead of me...since you're from the same country(sigh...).

One area where I'll disagree with you is FC;even if you're correct in saying that the tennis benefit is only small(which is a subjective observation),there's no evidence that FC hurts Petra in any way,and she seems to get a huge thrill from playing for CR
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Old Feb 15th, 2013, 11:54 PM   #57
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Very detailed,thoughtful analysis,Ex,but 'TennisFan' just disappeared right after posting and refused to give his consent(even though he seems to agree with everything that we've been touching on).Maybe it would make a difference if YOU asked him(or QPF)instead of me...since you're from the same country(sigh...).

One area where I'll disagree with you is FC;even if you're correct in saying that the tennis benefit is only small(which is a subjective observation),there's no evidence that FC hurts Petra in any way,and she seems to get a huge thrill from playing for CR
Well, hopefully he'll respond.

I have someone else in mind though (I hope).

Well, I don't think the most recent Fed Cup hurt her. I just didn't think it helped her as much as Shifty wanted to make it out to be.

Petra didn't play great during those two matches. But she fought. So I'm sure it may have helped a little. But obviously, not enough.

Unfortunately, those victories didn't give her enough belief to hold her serves during the third set today, with out Serena placing much pressure on her to be broken.

Nonetheless, let's hope this gives her some confidence, and some game to perform well during the next few hardcourt tournaments?

What would/could Petra do, with a more persuasive, professional, dedicated, incisive, smarter team?

Well, at least she gave some entertaining, Petra like tennis for a bit.
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Old Feb 16th, 2013, 02:41 AM   #58
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
We're lacking one co-signer for our letter to Navratilova;does your post above signify that you would like your name added to the list??

'P.o.v.' has things PARTLY correct again;motivation ultimately must come from within.Her error is in claiming that coaches and others are powerless to give motivational boosts...or that it's almost impossible to change.I'll agree that it's not the MAJORITY of undermotivated who become more determined,but it DOES happen much more than very rarely.A prime example that comes to mind is MLB pitcher Curt Schilling who used to have lazy work habits before being pulled aside--literally grabbed by his shirt collar--by ace Roger Clemens.Schilling cites that moment as a turning point in his stellar career.This does not prove,in ANY way,that someone could do that with Petra...but it's far more than a ridiculous longshot.
Most definitely! If not Navratilova, then someone of her caliber that can bring a new view to Petra and her game.

You know...the more I think about today's match, the angrier and annoyed I get w/ Petra that she COULD NOT close out serena after being 4-1 up in the 3rd!!!! Seriously, how many chances do you need to have?!?!

Ugh...i'm really convinced at this point that Petra does not have a champion's mentality...as someone else had mentioned...i think she got up for this match because she was the underdog...

I just don't think Petra really has that hunger to be the best...i think she's content w/ her one slam and maybe winning another 1 or 2...i mean to be the best week in and week out requires not only discipline, but the kind of mental toughness where you refuse to concede a single point to your opponent...and Petra severely lacks that by giving away too many free points...

I mean...HOPEFULLY, despite the tweet that she posted, Petra says to herself, "Damnit...I was in full control of that match and lost it on my racquet...my serve needs work ASAP...and i'm tired of having crappy footwork/movement where i'm constantly off balance"

But realistically, she prob finds the loss acceptable...sigh...
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Old Feb 16th, 2013, 02:58 AM   #59
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Re: PK and coaches - your take

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Most definitely! If not Navratilova, then someone of her caliber that can bring a new view to Petra and her game.

You know...the more I think about today's match, the angrier and annoyed I get w/ Petra that she COULD NOT close out serena after being 4-1 up in the 3rd!!!! Seriously, how many chances do you need to have?!?!

Ugh...i'm really convinced at this point that Petra does not have a champion's mentality...as someone else had mentioned...i think she got up for this match because she was the underdog...

I just don't think Petra really has that hunger to be the best...i think she's content w/ her one slam and maybe winning another 1 or 2...i mean to be the best week in and week out requires not only discipline, but the kind of mental toughness where you refuse to concede a single point to your opponent...and Petra severely lacks that by giving away too many free points...

I mean...HOPEFULLY, despite the tweet that she posted, Petra says to herself, "Damnit...I was in full control of that match and lost it on my racquet...my serve needs work ASAP...and i'm tired of having crappy footwork/movement where i'm constantly off balance"

But realistically, she prob finds the loss acceptable...sigh...
Thank you for replying.A word of caution to you: Though there is a reasonable number of cases where previously-undermotivated athletes found their way,what's far LESS common is seeing a mentally-weak player become strong(and the opposite,strong-to-weak,is almost non-existent).I suppose that it depends partly on HOW weak that weaker athlete really is(it's not easy to measure such things precisely,obviously).However,there are some very notable exceptions to the rule.A recent example is SB-winning QB Joe Flacco...who USED to antagonize me by dragging my favorite team down with his astonishing choking.

Perhaps a more cheerful example is Navratilova herself,who would frequently implode in the '70s when facing Evert or another elite player...and then became one of the ultimate competitors in women's sports.I'm not suggesting that easygoing Petra will have such an amazing turnaround;heck,we don't even have any degree of assurance that the proposed meeting will ever come off...or that Petra would automatically heed the advice.Nevertheless,Petra has already won top-level titles even withOUT a legend's advice...so maybe she won't need to make such drastic changes to become a consistent,elite player...let's hope not,at least
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