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Old Dec 14th, 2013, 01:32 PM   #181
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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Originally Posted by pov View Post
Hmm . . . .so they can't be compared . . . but they can ?? "Equal" is a comparison.

GOAT discussions are in part based on the fact that everyone is playing their "peers." IOW Williams - with today's racket/string tech - isn't playing others who only have access to wood rackets.
Accomplishment wise, I do think they are equal. As to how they would do playing each other, we will never know.
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Old Dec 16th, 2013, 02:07 AM   #182
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Serena is Behind No One

Obviously some of you don't know tennis just make comments on who you like or don't like. Serena is second to no one period. Chris Evert and John McEnroe say Serena is the greatest female tennis player of all time. Surely none of you think that you know more tennis than two former professionals. Martina Navratilova doesn't want to admit that. Graf while great in her time was extremely fortunate to have Seles stabbed. Anybody who can spell tennis knows that Monica would have easily won more Majors than she did had she not been stabbed at 19 and a half with 8 majors at the time she was stabbed. That means Graf would have won less. Evert and Navratilova had each other but who else was a consistent competitor. Serena's competition had and still has much more depth than any women in history. There were more women who have won majors during Serena's era than in any other era. ( Serena's Era - 16, Graf's Era -10, Naratilova's Era - 7 . Even more telling is that of the 16 that have won majors during Serena's Era 9 won multiple Majors, while only 4 won multiple Majors during the Graf and Navratilova era.) Most of the women in the top 10-15 hit the ball with so much power today that the women of the past would not be able to handle the heat. Chris Evert says that all the time when talking about Serena. I was watching some Court highlights just the other day and it looked like she was playing badminton compared to todays game. Serena has just had the best two years of her career at the age of 31 and 32. No woman in the history of tennis has ever had their best two years at 31/32. No one ever. An Era begins when a person wins their first major and when they win their last. Obviously Serena's ERA is not over.

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Old Dec 16th, 2013, 03:44 AM   #183
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Re: Serena is Behind No One

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Originally Posted by DrDenali View Post
Obviously some of you don't know tennis just make comments on who you like or don't like. Serena is second to no one period. Chris Evert and John McEnroe say Serena is the greatest female tennis player of all time. Surely none of you think that you know more tennis than two former professionals. Martina Navratilova doesn't want to admit that. Graf while great in her time was extremely fortunate to have Seles stabbed. Anybody who can spell tennis knows that Monica would have easily won more Majors than she did had she not been stabbed at 19 and a half with 8 majors at the time she was stabbed. That means Graf would have won less. Evert and Navratilova had each other but who else was a consistent competitor. Serena's competition had and still has much more depth than any women in history. There were more women who have won majors during Serena's era than in any other era. ( Serena's Era - 16, Graf's Era -10, Naratilova's Era - 7 . Even more telling is that of the 16 that have won majors during Serena's Era 9 won multiple Majors, while only 4 won multiple Majors during the Graf and Navratilova era.) Most of the women in the top 10-15 hit the ball with so much power today that the women of the past would not be able to handle the heat. Chris Evert says that all the time when talking about Serena. I was watching some Court highlights just the other day and it looked like she was playing badminton compared to todays game. Serena has just had the best two years of her career at the age of 31 and 32. No woman in the history of tennis has ever had their best two years at 31/32. No one ever. An Era begins when a person wins their first major and when they win their last. Obviously Serena's ERA is not over.

DrDenali
That was freak'n beautiful!!

Truth is, it all comes down to "the facts".
The tennis experts have praised Serena, and those experts know more than the armchair experts of TF.com.
We've gone over this time and time again...
Serena Williams is this generation's GOAT.
But more than that, she's already achieved legendary status.
She has the numbers, longevity, presence/intimidation factor, respect, and acknowledgement of her peers.
And she's still improving at 32 years old!!
The ONLY people who would possibly deny these FACTS are those who'd also deny the relevance of their own favorites and past GOATS and greats of the game.
No...they wpould stand to deny the very game that is Tennis itself.

It's time for fans of tennis to place their biases aside and enjoy the history that is unfolding today.
Their is a legend among these ladies folks. And she'll be beginning her new and next campaign motivated, driven, fresh, and hungry.

I wish the entire WTA well and great fortune.
I want to see some incredible tennis this season,and believe that it is on the way.
And I'd like for these ladies...all of them...to be given the respect and admiration that they so richly deserve.
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Old Dec 16th, 2013, 03:56 AM   #184
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

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The reason why Evert and Navi are at the bottom of this list is obviously because they played each other in lots of Slam finals. Serena never had to play Graf in a Slam final and Court never had to play Graf in a Slam final so this stat is as meaningless as it gets.

When Serena wins more than 100 tournaments like all the other players on that list then we can slowly begin to talk about considering Serena but until then Serena is at the VERY bottom of this list BY FAR.
Tennis is much too physical to play that many matches. In addition, Martina and Chris played in an era where they were not paid like todays players. Serena has made over 54 milllion dollars may pass 60 million this year. Unlike many of the past generation money is not an object. Serena did not play the low paid tourneys when she was young, Venus played a few. I remember Serena when she would lose early and go back home. Probably why she can still play. Over the last two years she has won almost 20 million dollars. 100 tournaments indeed.
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SERENA PRINCESS OF POWER
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Old Dec 16th, 2013, 04:55 AM   #185
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Re: Why Serena is still well behind Chris and Martina N.

Serena it's great!Q
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Old Dec 17th, 2013, 02:29 AM   #186
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Re: Serena is Behind No One

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Originally Posted by DrDenali View Post
Obviously some of you don't know tennis just make comments on who you like or don't like. Serena is second to no one period. Chris Evert and John McEnroe say Serena is the greatest female tennis player of all time. Surely none of you think that you know more tennis than two former professionals. Martina Navratilova doesn't want to admit that. Graf while great in her time was extremely fortunate to have Seles stabbed. Anybody who can spell tennis knows that Monica would have easily won more Majors than she did had she not been stabbed at 19 and a half with 8 majors at the time she was stabbed. That means Graf would have won less. Evert and Navratilova had each other but who else was a consistent competitor. Serena's competition had and still has much more depth than any women in history. There were more women who have won majors during Serena's era than in any other era. ( Serena's Era - 16, Graf's Era -10, Naratilova's Era - 7 . Even more telling is that of the 16 that have won majors during Serena's Era 9 won multiple Majors, while only 4 won multiple Majors during the Graf and Navratilova era.) Most of the women in the top 10-15 hit the ball with so much power today that the women of the past would not be able to handle the heat. Chris Evert says that all the time when talking about Serena. I was watching some Court highlights just the other day and it looked like she was playing badminton compared to todays game. Serena has just had the best two years of her career at the age of 31 and 32. No woman in the history of tennis has ever had their best two years at 31/32. No one ever. An Era begins when a person wins their first major and when they win their last. Obviously Serena's ERA is not over.

DrDenali
This obviously comes from anther one of Serena's deluded fans who seem to forget facts and glorify it with their own version of history. If Seles had to retire early from the scene (although most seem to forget she made a comeback and even won a slam after that comeback)what exactly do you call the relatively early retirement of Henin, Clijsters, Capriati, Hingis etc?? Henin and Clijsters had each given Serena a GS beat down and by their early retirements allowed her much more freedome to win GS titles, FACT.

Your glorification of Serena fails miserably when we actually look at FACTS not self created FICTION. The facts are that Martina and Chris had many many more titles than Serena and Serena don't even look like catching up. Martina and Chris virtually always got to the final of a GS they competed in, whereas Serena has suffered many inexplicable losses in early rounds of GS to nobodies (Makarova, Razzano, Lisicki, Stephens, Bartoli etc etc), she often missed many tournaments in her early to mid careers thinking she was too good for them.

Ill give you this, Serena at the top of her peak form and in the zone is one of the best players of all time BUT she consistently shows she is unable to keep this form over the long period, otherwise she would have 50 GS singles titles, right?? she has been going for a heck of a long time with no major nemises like Evert had with Navratilova and vice versa and is stilly shy of their 18!

When we are talking about GOAT we are not talking about strength or the ability to hit aces or blow someone off the court in a match, we are talking about consistent results that dominate your era, which Serena has done in patches but not to the extent that Navratilova, Evert, Graff and Court have done........ Even Serena admits she has a long way to go to break a lot of records.

McEnroe and Evert say a lot of silly things and they fall into what a lot of people do, concentrating on current champions and forgetting the past. I guarantee in 10-15 years time people will be saying the current champion is the best of all time or at least near it and Serena just a memory.
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