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Old Oct 13th, 2013, 01:02 AM   #16
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by dybbuk View Post
You're not going to change an entire language's grammar after controlling a country for 40 years. The similarities between Japanese and Korean grammar existed before then. That has nothing to do with Japan's influence over Korea or vice versa. You form language groups by similarities that stem from the mother Altaic language they all stemmed from, and imo after studying both there's too many deep rooted similarities between the two of them for them not to be related.
"A language family is a group of languages related through descent from a common ancestor, called the proto-language of that family. "
The origin of Japanese is not Altaic language. This has been rebutted numerous times. (I have yet to see people agreeing on this proposal.) Also, ancient Japanese poems cannot be read in Korean. Maybe Korean language is influenced by Japanese language (many kanji vocabs), but their origin is certainly not the same. If you read my links, you can see that their basic vocabs like body parts and number pronunciation are very different.
Anyway, going to sleep. I spent the last hour reading essays on the origin of Japanese! Have a nice day
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Old Oct 13th, 2013, 01:11 AM   #17
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by TheNexus View Post
"A language family is a group of languages related through descent from a common ancestor, called the proto-language of that family. "
The origin of Japanese is not Altaic language. This has been rebutted numerous times. (I have yet to see people agreeing on this proposal.) Also, ancient Japanese poems cannot be read in Korean. Maybe Korean language is influenced by Japanese language (many kanji vocabs), but their origin is certainly not the same. If you read my links, you can see that their basic vocabs like body parts and number pronunciation are very different.
Anyway, going to sleep. I spent the last hour reading essays on the origin of Japanese! Have a nice day
What? Your posts suggest you don't understand anything about language families. All it means is at some point in the distant past Japanese and Korean were the same language, and they diverged and later finally developed in the languages we see today. What does ancient Japanese poems not being able to be read by Koreans have to do with anything? A Romanian person wouldn't be able to read ancient Spanish poems, but they're still both Romance languages. And what Japanese and Korean are is still up for debate, there is no consensus in the linguistic community. But I assure you there are many linguists who believe they are related. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_language#Altaicists You might start there and look for those people's books.
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Old Oct 14th, 2013, 10:04 AM   #18
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

I don't know anything about Korean so I can't comment on it but it's good to see at least there's a good debate going on Altaic as I thought there would be.

I have read both sides of the argument and I can't say I'm leaning against one or the other. One thing though I will comment on is that just because Old Japanese cannot be understood by Koreans is not evidence that they did not share a common ancestor.

The Tibeto-Burman languages are also quite different from the Sinitic languages. The time when they parted probably would've been around the same time.

Another thing is even if Korean language was/is part of the Altaic family, geographically and historically, China has been always the more influential civilization over Korea, not Japan and I'm guessing that would play a significant part in vocabulary? If anyone can confirm.

I never really thought I'll want to learn Japanese but I might put it on my maybe-to-learn list because Japanese literature is so good.
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Old Oct 15th, 2013, 02:25 PM   #19
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

初めまして!

僕は名古屋に住んでいます。ここに医学を勉強しています、今博士2年生です。ドイツから来まし た。

宜しく!

I love Japanese, but Katakana is too weird and terrible!
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Old Oct 17th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #20
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by dybbuk View Post
TFの日本語の学生 is fine. You could also use TFの日本語を勉強している学生.

I've studied Japanese for 3 years and am about to study about in Kyoto in the spring and summer. I was taught from the Genki series and now "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" from The Japan Times. It's hard to say what level you are in learning a language, in my classes now we usually translate short stories, so I'd say I can read simpler Japanese literature and could get around Japan just fine.

Also saying さようなら is a little strange for this situation, it doesn't really translate directly to "bye" or anything in other languages; it kind of suggests you might not see or talk to the person again for a long time. "じゃまた” would probably be better.
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Originally Posted by rrfnpump View Post
初めまして!

僕は名古屋に住んでいます。ここに医学を勉強しています、今博士2年生です。ドイツから来まし た。

宜しく!

I love Japanese, but Katakana is too weird and terrible!
Hi!

I have couple of questions regarding Kanji. Did you start learning Kanji right away or after you completed the beginning stages of Japanese. I want to start studying Kanji, but I'm confused as to when and how. I heard that flashcards are really useful, so I may get one from Amazon. iknow.jp is also a good site (from what I heard) to extend your vocabulary. I want to get my JLPT N1 certificate before I graduate from college, I don't know it is a reasonable goal.
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Old Oct 17th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #21
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

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Originally Posted by Daruma. View Post
Hi!

I have couple of questions regarding Kanji. Did you start learning Kanji right away or after you completed the beginning stages of Japanese. I want to start studying Kanji, but I'm confused as to when and how. I heard that flashcards are really useful, so I may get one from Amazon. iknow.jp is also a good site (from what I heard) to extend your vocabulary. I want to get my JLPT N1 certificate before I graduate from college, I don't know it is a reasonable goal.
今晩は

I started learning Kanji right away and it is very important for reading Japanese. If you just write in Hiragana, it is extremely difficult to read compared to using Kanji. 読みにくい! I am using an application on my smartphone to study Kanji. I actually really like learning Kanji, it is interesting. But of course, quite difficult, but that also goes for Japanese: many Japanese forget how to write them and even cannot read some of them.

N1 is very tough. Good luck with that. 頑張って!

By the way, if you want to see Japanese people struggeling with Kanji, you should watch this show: プレッシャーバトル
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Old Oct 17th, 2013, 02:09 PM   #22
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

I have to say for a native English speaker, Chinese is soooo much easier to learn than Japanese! The only things that are be a bit of a challenge at first are the tones and the characters, but after you get a hang of them it becomes so much easier. Once you understand the way characters are constructed, reading Chinese becomes very easy, however writing can be the hard part. But also Chinese grammar is quite easy; no conjugation at all and the word order is very similar to English a lot of the time.
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Old Oct 17th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #23
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TF のにほんごのがくせい

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daruma. View Post
Hi!

I have couple of questions regarding Kanji. Did you start learning Kanji right away or after you completed the beginning stages of Japanese. I want to start studying Kanji, but I'm confused as to when and how. I heard that flashcards are really useful, so I may get one from Amazon. iknow.jp is also a good site (from what I heard) to extend your vocabulary. I want to get my JLPT N1 certificate before I graduate from college, I don't know it is a reasonable goal.
I started learning kanji like the second week of my Japanese class, after hiragana. It's just essential. You're never going to be able to read Japanese without it; only writing in hiragana is both difficult to read and looks childish/like you don't know much Japanese. I don't know if you're self-studying or in a class, but I'd recommend http://www.amazon.com/Integrated-Ele...ywords=genki+1 This is my 1st book. It gives a good grounding in basic grammar and conjugations, plus a lot of vocabulary, and in the back are basic kanji you need to know. I am not someone who can self-study a language because I have no self-discipline to do it everyday without a quiz or exam pushing me to do it, but with kanji you just have to jump in and make sure you practice and review every day. It's very difficult to learn if you don't do it regularly. But on the flip side, radicals (the smaller parts of a kanji) are reused over and over again, so once you learn a lot of them you see they all reuse the same parts just in different combinations and it gets easier over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey. View Post
I have to say for a native English speaker, Chinese is soooo much easier to learn than Japanese! The only things that are be a bit of a challenge at first are the tones and the characters, but after you get a hang of them it becomes so much easier. Once you understand the way characters are constructed, reading Chinese becomes very easy, however writing can be the hard part. But also Chinese grammar is quite easy; no conjugation at all and the word order is very similar to English a lot of the time.
Thank you!
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Old Nov 19th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #24
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TFの日本語の学生

皆さんこんにちは。お元気ですか。私は毎日うちで漢字と日本語を勉強します。

I'm slowly improving myself. I thought learning Kanji would a very boring task, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. It's been so much fun, and it's a huge motivation to be able to recognise characters that meant nothing to me just a month ago! I have a long way to go though.. But I'm motivated!
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Old Nov 20th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #25
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TFの日本語の学生

よかったね! 漢字を勉強するのは面白いだよねえ!

これからまだ頑張って!
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Old Nov 20th, 2013, 01:57 AM   #26
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Re: TF Japanese Learners - TFの日本語の学生

I would say Japanese is harder to learn only because of the grammar. Pronunciation and writing is easier than Chinese.
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