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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #16
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi1987 View Post
So much anger , so much bitterness , so much hatred in one post

To answer your rant :

1) Her competition was immature, there is no way Hingis fans can weasel out of that argument.

2) Serena unlike Hingis was a much superior athlete and did not have a losing head to head versus Graf.

3) Unlike Graf Serena is winning slams in her 30's. So your argument that Graf was going to MATCH Serena's level in her 30's is JUST PLAIN SOUR GRAPES trying to diminish Serena's accomplishment rather than boosting Hingis'.

4) She did retire from tennis, because she could NO LONGER WIN SLAMS. Her ego would not allow her to admit it, so she concocted the whole ankles thing. By the way do you know the outcome of the lawsuit against Sergio Tachini

Interview with Martina step father and her agent.


Quote:
BLICK: Are really the shoes of the former sponsor Tacchini for that problem responsible?

MARIO WIDMER: We are dealing with a professional sport and the Tacchini-Problem has been solved. Both sides have agreed a composition and to maintain silence from both sides about it.

BLICK: Tacchini has paid a few nice dollars ,right?

MARIO WIDMER: Like i said "both sides maintain silence". And Martina is with her new Sponsor Adidas in good hands.

Considering her comeback her condition was not chronic at all.

5)I want to ask you why didnt she win multiple slam in a season post 1997 ?

6) Where was martina in 2009 and 2010 if the competiton was so weak. Her ban ended in early 2009. Still plenty of time for a comeback

7)She was not a pusher but she was forced to play defensive tennis because players with weapons could pin her way behind the baseline.

8) She was an oppurtunist in a way that she was at the right place at the right time. This was beneficial to her as she could amass slams at a rate unheard of for someone so young and damaging because it came all too easy and she never developed the skills of coping with competition.

7) Hingis was stupid and arrogant and had no sense of what was going around her. She could not see that the Williams sisters, Davenport, Capriati were all taller and stronger players than her, did she go to the gym to keep up, NO.

She kept using outdated Yonex frame and did not update her technique at all



All in All, she had a golden opportunity of starting a career in a spectacular way but didnt take advantage of it by adapting.

And don't even try to compare Serena to Hingis !!!
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #17
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Hingis dominated the field cause she was freaking good.It doesn't make of 1997 a weak year
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #18
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi1987 View Post
So much anger , so much bitterness , so much hatred in one post

To answer your rant :

1) Her competition was immature, there is no way Hingis fans can weasel out of that argument.

2) Serena unlike Hingis was a much superior athlete and did not have a losing head to head versus Graf.

3) Unlike Graf Serena is winning slams in her 30's. So your argument that Graf was going to MATCH Serena's level in her 30's is JUST PLAIN SOUR GRAPES trying to diminish Serena's accomplishment rather than boosting Hingis'.

4) She did retire from tennis, because she could NO LONGER WIN SLAMS. Her ego would not allow her to admit it, so she concocted the whole ankles thing. By the way do you know the outcome of the lawsuit against Sergio Tachini

Interview with Martina step father and her agent.


Quote:
BLICK: Are really the shoes of the former sponsor Tacchini for that problem responsible?

MARIO WIDMER: We are dealing with a professional sport and the Tacchini-Problem has been solved. Both sides have agreed a composition and to maintain silence from both sides about it.

BLICK: Tacchini has paid a few nice dollars ,right?

MARIO WIDMER: Like i said "both sides maintain silence". And Martina is with her new Sponsor Adidas in good hands.

Considering her comeback her condition was not chronic at all.

5)I want to ask you why didnt she win multiple slam in a season post 1997 ?

6) Where was martina in 2009 and 2010 if the competiton was so weak. Her ban ended in early 2009. Still plenty of time for a comeback

7)She was not a pusher but she was forced to play defensive tennis because players with weapons could pin her way behind the baseline.

8) She was an oppurtunist in a way that she was at the right place at the right time. This was beneficial to her as she could amass slams at a rate unheard of for someone so young and damaging because it came all too easy and she never developed the skills of coping with competition.

7) Hingis was stupid and arrogant and had no sense of what was going around her. She could not see that the Williams sisters, Davenport, Capriati were all taller and stronger players than her, did she go to the gym to keep up, NO.

She kept using outdated Yonex frame and did not update her technique at all



All in All, she had a golden opportunity of starting a career in a spectacular way but didnt take advantage of it by adapting.

And don't even try to compare Serena to Hingis !!!

Seriouslyyy!
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #19
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

you call people out for supposedly downgrading Hingis achievements in 1997 yet you did the exact same thing in your second breathe in regards to Serena in 2002, 2009 and 2010.

What a hypocrite.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #20
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Marcus1979 View Post
you call people out for supposedly downgrading Hingis achievements in 1997 yet you did the exact same thing in your second breathe in regards to Serena in 2002, 2009 and 2010.

What a hypocrite.
He pretty much said if you try to diminish the 1997 field I am going to do the same to 2002, using the same reason you give(i.e. lack of Graf). Of course, the fact the two seasons are five years removed, that little thing called TIME is completely irrelevant
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #21
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Olórin View Post
He pretty much said if you try to diminish the 1997 field I am going to do the same to 2002, using the same reason you give(i.e. lack of Graf). Of course, the fact the two seasons are five years removed, that little thing called TIME is completely irrelevant
So many ifs and Butts

We could say that if Seles had not been stabbed she would not of become a mental midget and could of dominated a Graff-less 1997

could say if Davenport developed quicker she could of dominated 1997 also
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #22
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Peak Aga could've been Martina in 1997
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #23
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

Isn't it always that when a player dominates the tour, that the rest of the competition is "weak"?

Same for when nobody dominates?

I thought it was common TF logic?



If Martina dominated cause her same-aged rivals all were immature, i guess it's even more of a compliment to her strengths anyway.

I wonder how it comes, that no one else took advantage.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #24
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Besides, there wouldn't have been any awesome 2002 for Serena if Graf had kept on playing and was injury-free like Serena is right now

yeah 30 year old Graf would have stopped Serena
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #25
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
And don't give me the "Graf was injured" thing, she wasn't injured in 1996 (one of her best years) and 15 year-old Martina still beat her at the semifinals of the Italian Open. Besides, there wouldn't have been any awesome 2002 for Serena if Graf had kept on playing and was injury-free like Serena is right now, so the injured Graf argument works in both ways too.
So a healthy 33 year-old Graf would have beaten Serena in 2002 but a healthy 28 year-old Graf would have been no match for Hingis in 1997? Sorry but that is complete nonsense.
  • In her last year on tour Graf played a 18 year-old Serena twice and they won one apiece.
  • Graf and Hingis played 6 times after that Rome encounter that you highlight. Steffi won 5 of them and handed Hingis 3 bagels along the way.

It's almost certain that, had Graf been healthy in 1997, she would have beaten Hingis like a drum.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 06:24 PM   #26
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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2001 was absolute peak Serena and Hingis barely beat Majoli at that tournament
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #27
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Marcus1979 View Post
you call people out for supposedly downgrading Hingis achievements in 1997 yet you did the exact same thing in your second breathe in regards to Serena in 2002, 2009 and 2010.

What a hypocrite.
It's in human nature to behave like a jerk with jerks.
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Old Oct 4th, 2013, 08:43 PM   #28
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

As someone posted earlier Hingis had it too easy. The big players of the early and middle 90s were all having some issues: Graf with her back injury, Conchita also had a shoulder and neck/back injuries, ASV still roaring but not at the same level, Sabatini and Date retired, Seles having weight problems and also dealing with her father's health...

That leaves Novotna and Davenport as the main competition. Davenport was still losing weight thanks to Van't Hof's coaching and Novotna would peak later in the year by winning the Chase Championships. Venus had a great US Open but that was it; she would also climb the rankings and establish herself as a regular top player in 1998. Who's missing at the top? Pierce had a Grand Slam final and won Rome but that sums it up for the year. Coetzer also took advantage of the weak competition and reached a top 3 ranking and the same could be said about Iva Majoli. Mary Jose Fernandez had a last swan song by reaching the AO semis and winning Berlin but she would never get to those stages again...

1997 was a year where many lesser players like Spirlea, Appelmans and Dragomir at the top probably had their best performance. Some like Tauziat would start to get back to their previous level by adjusting their game while others like Testud, Schett and Schnyder showed some signals of what was coming.

So we had a great player who allso had great regularity while all of the others had some issues. When those problems started to fade away then Hingis got into trouble
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Old Oct 5th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #29
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

I think the whole post Seles stabbing period from 93-97 was weak. 1997 was the weakest year of all that period though as Graf, Sanchez, Seles, Martinez, Pierce all became irrelevant in 1997. So what was already a weak field became much more worse. Nobody new but Hingis emerged to compensate that all the previous top veterans were done (atleast for the moment). Hingis's biggest competition that year was Novotna, Majoli, Huber, Spirlea, and Coetzer. What could be weaker than that.
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Old Oct 5th, 2013, 12:05 AM   #30
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Re: "1997 was one of the weakest years ever duhhhh"

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
And don't give me the "Graf was injured" thing, she wasn't injured in 1996 (one of her best years) and 15 year-old Martina still beat her at the semifinals of the Italian Open. Besides, there wouldn't have been any awesome 2002 for Serena if Graf had kept on playing and was injury-free like Serena is right now, so the injured Graf argument works in both ways too.
You make no sense at all. You argue a 27 year old Graf would have no possible threat to Hingis, then turn right around and say a 33 year old Graf would have been stopping a peak Serena from her success. The only way to argue that is to imply 1997 Hingis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2002 Serena or 33 year old Graf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 27 year old Graf, either one which would make you equally delusional and bereft of any logic.

In reality since you chose to bring Graf into the equation, I could see 97 Hingis winning the Australian Open even over a healthy Graf perhaps, but no way she was winning Wimbledon or the U.S Open, and losing only 1 match for half the year. A 33 year old Graf meanwhile would have been no threat to a peak Serena anywhere. Not even on clay.

In the end none of that matters, injuries and retirements are part of the game, and Hingis fully deserved her 3 1997 slams. The 2002 field was one of the deepest in history though- peak Serena, peak Venus, peak Capriati, close to prime Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, and not at their best but still high standard Hingis, Seles, Pierce, and other then super promising and strong up and comers like Dementieva, Hantuchova, Dokic, Kuznetsova, and other dangerous players like Rubin playing some of their best ever tennis.
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