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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #46
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

If there was a young star who could guarantee the tournament was successful, who knows?

This tournament drew about 30,000 last year, and WTA's article on it, if these numbers are correct, tv ratings were huge:

The tournament attracted 90 accredited media to Sofia, from as far away as China, and matches were broadcast to 25 countries. Host broadcaster BNT reported average daily viewership of 2.76 million households, in a country with a population of 7.4 million. - See more at: http://www.wtatennis.com/news/articl....v3NFkmRN.dpuf
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #47
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
But it acutally falsifies competition

Lest ye forget WTA is a points-system league. So you would be effectively punishing players that are over 21 if you are banning them from getting those ranking points.
in the actual situation, players like Pironkova and Ivanovic have basically a free pass (based on what ? being Bulgarian and a hot has-been ? doesn't sound fair tbh)every year to gain points while the others are not given the opportunity.and players who are qualified and have the fed cup final the same week must choose between the two events and most probably ban themselves from getting the ranking points of the MM YEC

honestly I think there would be some good things coming from this : youngsters would have an additionnal clear target during their first few years on tour and it would help to build one thing the tour has been lacking the past few years aka big rivalries (especially if it's a round robin format like at the YEC, it would mean players from the same generation would necessarily play each others at least during this event in their 2/3 first years on tour).it would also help the audience to get familiar with them and the winner would have a real exposure instead of getting some obscure "best newcomer" award that no casual fan ever hear about.
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #48
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

Why U-21? That could be as well U-23, or U-2.
I can agree with the opinions that MM YEC line-up is little bit taken out of nowhere, because of the stupid rule of two wild-cards, and these two wild cards are killing the concept of that tournament (no matter to who they award them), but I cannot see any benefits from creating such event.
First of all - if the event would award points for players, it would discriminate older players, and I don't see any reasonable answer on a question - why some players should get some points, while the rest is not allowed too, because they're too old.
The other thing is level of competition, of course some of the girls are more talented than some participants of the MM YEC, but if they would be really talented, they could qualify directly to MM YEC.
I think that we are going to see in a couple of years 125 YEC, and I thinki it is going to happen sooner or later, Stacey just need to find more Chinese cities willing to host these events
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #49
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
in the actual situation, players like Pironkova and Ivanovic have basically a free pass (based on what ? being Bulgarian and a hot has-been ? doesn't sound fair tbh)every year to gain points while the others are not given the opportunity.and players who are qualified and have the fed cup final the same week must choose between the two events and most probably ban themselves from getting the ranking points of the MM YEC

honestly I think there would be some good things coming from this : youngsters would have an additionnal clear target during their first few years on tour and it would help to build one thing the tour has been lacking the past few years aka big rivalries (especially if it's a round robin format like at the YEC, it would mean players from the same generation would necessarily play each others at least during this event in their 2/3 first years on tour).it would also help the audience to get familiar with them and the winner would have a real exposure instead of getting some obscure "best newcomer" award that no casual fan ever hear about.
There are players who are in a slam main draw because they come from the host country. If you luck into a draw, thats a lot of points for someone who might have lost in qualies.
Its like that all the time. Countries that have a big tournament favor their own with WC's, and at a major, there are plenty of soft sections where a lucky wild card can win.
It was never fair. Still isnt
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #50
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
There are players who are in a slam main draw because they come from the host country. If you luck into a draw, thats a lot of points for someone who might have lost in qualies.
Its like that all the time. Countries that have a big tournament favor their own with WC's, and at a major, there are plenty of soft sections where a lucky wild card can win
that's the point : the tour is already full of what you could call "discriminations" or "unfair advantages" so it's not really a valid point to raise against the idea brought in this thread imo
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #51
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
that's the point : the tour is already full of what you could call "discriminations" or "unfair advantages" so it's not really a valid point to raise against the idea brought in this thread imo
Its the way this sport works. If Li wasnt so successful, maybe the tour isnt in the far east so much.
The reason this YEC still exists is that its profitable.
Throwing out ideas about what other possible YEC's could be, would only matter if it could be profitable.
Thats why both YEC's exist. Under 21 might sound interesting, like an extension of junior's but the WTA would not even entertain it as a possibility unless someone could make it financially successful
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #52
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

I think it's a great idea. As for being an unfair opportunity for younger players to get some points, why not make the argument that the age eligibility rules took away chances for them to build their rankings earlier in their careers, so they're making up for lost time. It used to be that you could get into the top 100 by age 16-17, then spend a few years honing your skills against top players. That just doesn't happen anymore.
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:30 PM   #53
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its the way this sport works. If Li wasnt so successful, maybe the tour isnt in the far east so much.
The reason this YEC still exists is that its profitable.
Throwing out ideas about what other possible YEC's could be, would only matter if it could be profitable.
Thats why both YEC's exist
I think a tournament like this would be very profitable. For starters, I would say even as it is, players like Sloane and Laura have bigger global followings than most of the players who'll be making up this year's Sofia line-up (obviously with the exception of "home players" like Pironkova).

But secondly, as other people have said, the fact this tournament would have so much more prestige than the current MM YEC would mean that, even if it wasn't an immediate success in pure financial terms, what it would gain in credibility and media coverage would mean pretty quickly it would become one imo. When do commentators EVER talk about Ivanovic winning the Bali YEC as a big achievement? They never do. But, if Stephens or Robson or Keys were to win the title of "top young star", I think commentators would find that much more significant.

But anyway, even though I do think this tournament would be profitable, I totally disagree with what you seem to be saying that whether it gets a huge profit margin immediately should be the ONLY reason for the tournament to go ahead. That has imo been the WTA's biggest problem in recent years: they constantly chase whoever gives them the quickest immediate paydays, and don't do any long-term strategic thinking about what tournaments will help the sport in the long run.
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #54
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its the way this sport works. If Li wasnt so successful, maybe the tour isnt in the far east so much.
In 2002 when Li wasn't great player yet, and when the only quite big Far East Asian players were Sugiyama and Tanasugarn (we can add also Widjaja and Prakusya), there were six tournaments in Far East Asia (3 in Tokyo), currently there are 8 events in Far East.
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #55
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by triphop26 View Post
In 2002 when Li wasn't great player yet, and when the only quite big Far East Asian players were Sugiyama and Tanasugarn (we can add also Widjaja and Prakusya), there were six tournaments in Far East Asia (3 in Tokyo), currently there are 8 events in Far East.
It looks like the WTA's presence in the far east is expanding. I remember those players. Kournikova-Widjaja is a well known USO match. So was Sharapova-Ai at Wimbledon. Ai had an excellent career
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #56
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by Corswandt View Post
I always thought the MM YEC was a stupid idea.

MMs are more often won by dreary veteran lower tier specialists than by exciting newcomers having their breakthroughs there.
Exactly.

How can the WTA say something like "the next generation" when in fact the highest ranked players with an MM could all be aged 28 and higher or something? It kinda doesn't fit
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #57
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

This is actually a really good idea... I wouldn't mind watching a match between the young'uns!
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #58
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its the way this sport works. If Li wasnt so successful, maybe the tour isnt in the far east so much.
The reason this YEC still exists is that its profitable.
Throwing out ideas about what other possible YEC's could be, would only matter if it could be profitable.
Thats why both YEC's exist. Under 21 might sound interesting, like an extension of junior's but the WTA would not even entertain it as a possibility unless someone could make it financially successful
if it was marketed properly I see no reason why this could not be profitable.and anyway, not everything is about money.Mc Allister may bring some money to the tour with her policy of developping tennis in new markets like China or making calendar and surface changes in some events but the consequences are not always good.Each year we are losing events that had History and were loved by the fans, we no longer have a proper indoor season culminating with the YEC (made no sense to put Stuttgart in April and make it a clay event for example)etc...don't think it necessarily makes the tour more attractive (especially on the long term)
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #59
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
if it was marketed properly I see no reason why this could not be profitable.and anyway, not everything is about money.Mc Allister may bring some money to the tour with her policy of developping tennis in new markets like China or making calendar and surface changes in some events but the consequences are not always good.Each year we are losing events that had History and were loved by the fans, we no longer have a proper indoor season culiminating with the YEC (made no sense to put Stuttgart in April and make it a clay event for example)etc...don't think it necessarily makes the tour more attractive honestly
First, its a business.
It would be nice if everyone could have the events they enjoyed, but if no one wants to pay for it, its moving.
Even the usta, who paid Nadal & Serena $7.2 million.. they could have paid them half that and saved a few US tournaments. But its a business, and nothing is guaranteed to be profitable, which is why you need owners with deep pockets, who want to make the tournament work. IW a great example of that.

I thought this YEC made no sense, because if Goerges wins Stuttgart, she's not eligible.
But its doing well, so it might become a long term event
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Old Sep 20th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #60
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Re: Should the "MM YEC" be changed into an Under-21s Championship?

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
It looks like the WTA's presence in the far east is expanding. I remember those players. Kournikova-Widjaja is a well known USO match. So was Sharapova-Ai at Wimbledon. Ai had an excellent career
But with very great results of Li Na, the expansion is not that big as we could think. And we also have Date-Krum, Hsieh, Peng, Jie Zheng, Morita.
But still 2002 calendar looks nicer to me, than the current one Events in Bahia or Waikoloa looks better for the players than another event with empty seats
I think that the most known match of Ai should be the one in Scottsdale against Clijsters, she played three matches in one day - SF, F plus doubles final, and she have won the title in singles, and then she won title in doubles with Kim. And she was over 21

In 2003 u-21 were:
1. Justine Henin (1)
2. Kim Clijsters (2)
3. Nadia Petrova (12)
4. Vera Zvonareva (13)
5. Jelena Dokic (15)
6. Daniela Hantuchova (19)
7. Elena Bovina (21)
8. Eleni Danilidou (26)

And in 2013 it's only Sloane who is in the top20.

Such a difference in just ten years.
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