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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #2026
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Quote:
Originally Posted by bertisonline View Post
2013 results, Maybe?
B.
They've been through tough times before. And as I pointed out earlier, most of her poor year is due to her calf injury, which screwed up her preparation for the clay season. She earned something in the area of 1000 points less on clay than she has in the preceding 3-4 years, yet she's still on the brink of top 10. If you add even half that to her current ranking, she would never have dropped out of the top 10 at all.

I have the feeling something else has happened, although it could be that frustration at her poor year was the catalyst for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by louloubelle View Post
Martina could give Sam some fine tips in an advisory role. But yes I agree, whether she's a day to day coach is another thing. Martina is involved in so many things, Id find it hard for her to commit to coaching one player.
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Originally Posted by Towanda View Post
I'm totally with you on this. I think Martina could be a great coach for Sam. She's tough, but not a hardass. She knows how to win. She's mentally very tough. And she's been through some things in her career, like being coached that she cannot be friends with opponents, being much more emotional than most anyone knew at the time, weight struggles, and having so much hatred directed toward her by the American public when she came out. The point is that she came through all of that and realized that she could just be herself and be a tough competitor without being a bitch.

We've already seen Sam become this new "steely-Sam" who can lose a first set and fight like hell to come back and win the match. I really think Martina could help her further that toughness. She has already expressed some interest in coaching Sam, although she might be quite expensive. She was rumored to be in consideration to coach Wozniacki last year, but Woz wouldn't pay what she wanted.....but you never know....Woz could have just been too cheap to pay it, or Martina could have been asking for a crazy amount of money. Even so, Sam is getting closer to the end of her career, and maybe she will think it's worth paying whatever it costs just to get a shot at some more tournament wins.

That said, Maursemo would also be a choice I'd be happy with.
I agree that Martina as a full-time coach would probably not work, whther Sam could afford her or not. She has always had a soft spot for Sam, so I could see her being a bit more flexible in any negotiations with her than she was with Woz, but she'd still be very expensive, and anyway as Louloubelle pointed out she has fingers in all sorts of pies that she couldn't just drop to look after Sam full time.

It could be interesting for Sam to hire her for a particular season/slam, but it's hard to say which would be best if she did that. She might be able to help her to overcome her Aussie demons, but that could be risky and end up putting more pressure on Sam. I don't think she needs much help for the USO season, and the grass season is probably too short for her to have much effect. But even though RG was probably her worst slam, I think Martina could really help Sam finally achieve her potential on clay. I don't think Sam needs much technical coaching for her clay game anyway, it would be more the tactical/mental side of things, and Martina could certainly help with that.

Anyway, this is pure speculation. I have no idea whether Martina is still interested, and whether Sam would take her up on it if she offered.
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 11:36 AM   #2027
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

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Of course I won't kill you, but Sanchez would not work at all for Sam. Sam may need a badass, but she would never work with an asshole, which IMO is what Sanchez is. The "bitch" incident turned out to be a misunderstanding, but he still has a history of being a loose cannon. Sam doesn't need that, and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't even consider it.
Yeah, I see the difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by louloubelle View Post
Strange that they say that, because she's responded so well to OCC during Fed Cup
And once during doubles match with Raymond against Kimiko and Casey it helped, that's why I'm saying maybe new coach will have different approach to OCC and Sam will use it...
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 02:31 PM   #2028
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Some interesting comments about this on her Facebook page. Even it seems I assume her brother has commented randomly but not about the actual coach split. Others really have no idea

One person mentioned Brad Gilbert. Interesting.

Now back to tennis. Sam sits at 13 on the rankings. 200 points separates 8-13 with Petra, Vinci and Caro defending points this week and all playing New Haven. Unless someone pulls out she will be seeded 12 with her 4th round seed either Errani, Li, Caro or Petra.

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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 03:14 PM   #2029
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

I'm not sure but I think i't could be possible for Sam to get back into the top 10 this week without lifting a racquet (well I assume she probably will lift a racquet on the practice court, but you know what I mean). Like Ado says, Petra and Vinci are defending serious points this week, and JJ too.

It doesn't really matter of course, it would just be nice if Sammy could go to NY as a top 10 ranked player, even if her seeding is lower. Anyway, as I said I'm not sure. There was a thread on Petra's forum saying that she has the #8 seeding sown up, which if true would mean I must have gotten it wrong.

at the FB comments. "Who's Dave?" was the worst, I mean anybody who posts that should be permabanned from being her fan

I'm pretty sure we're never find out what really happened. Sam is bound to get grilled about it in NY, but I reckon she'll evade the issue, which is her good right off course.
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #2030
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Well I for one think this will be a good thing. Maybe Sam and Dave were getting a bit too comfortable together - where was the progression in the last 2 years? If you look back through posts on this forum, people have suggested before that she should jettison him.

I'm really looking forward to the Asian swing (that makes a change!) to see what shakes out. Interesting times.
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #2031
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

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Originally Posted by stromatolite View Post
I'm not sure but I think i't could be possible for Sam to get back into the top 10 this week without lifting a racquet (well I assume she probably will lift a racquet on the practice court, but you know what I mean). Like Ado says, Petra and Vinci are defending serious points this week, and JJ too.

It doesn't really matter of course, it would just be nice if Sammy could go to NY as a top 10 ranked player, even if her seeding is lower. Anyway, as I said I'm not sure. There was a thread on Petra's forum saying that she has the #8 seeding sown up, which if true would mean I must have gotten it wrong.

at the FB comments. "Who's Dave?" was the worst, I mean anybody who posts that should be permabanned from being her fan

I'm pretty sure we're never find out what really happened. Sam is bound to get grilled about it in NY, but I reckon she'll evade the issue, which is her good right off course.
Stro, this comment made me laugh. Permabanned....from being her fan!! Love it!

And I'd also like to mention that I really and truly appreciate the ranking and points updates that you guys post here. To me, it's all a big confusing jumble of clusterfuckery that I don't have time or inclination to interpret for myself. So big thanks to all of you who can break it down into easier terms for people like me.
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 04:36 PM   #2032
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

@Ado: Brad Gilbert would be potentially a really interesting possibility I think. But other than that one cryptic post on Sam's FB page I haven't been able to find anything concrete to suggest this is being considered. As far as I know he's also never worked with a woman before, not that that would necessarily matter. As far as I know he's not coaching anyone else atm, so who knows?

@Sinclair: I "kind of" know how the rankings work, but am mostly too lazy to do all the adding and subtracting needed to come to the exact point tally. Mostly I just look at The Boiled Egg's WTA Rankings Update thread. At the start of every week (s)he posts the points with that week's points taken off, then adds points accumulated in the course of the week. Tomorrow morning we should have a fresh table.
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 04:59 PM   #2033
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Theres also a couple of live rankings sites. I have no idea how accurate because I dont get all the rankings myself with all the 16th tournament stuff and the 0s and all that stuff but according to one Sam in fact will be no.10

I think Petra and Vinci are the closest ones below her who are entered into New Haven. The same site is actually quite detailed about what can happen for each player. Very detailed

What it says for Sam:

She is between 10 and 12 for this week. . Kvitova may pass her. , Vinci, Stephens are in the same draw

And seriously about the who is Dave comment
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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #2034
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Yeah, I really don't get why anyone would consider him/herself a Sam fan without knowing at least some basic info about her. But to openly display one's ignorance via a FB comment on Sam's page, well that's just

Take a lesson from the Goddess.

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Old Aug 18th, 2013, 10:40 PM   #2035
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Sam's own words : "During the US Open I’ll be working with the Tennis Australia team, including Fed Cup captain Alicia Molik, and I’ll start thinking about longer term options after New York."

I hope Sam contacts by herself Navratilova; and not rely on her Oz team to obtain meetings by any ways.
She now needs to break any form of routine+proximity with the Oz team, or they will reproduce the same trap.
She has done the more difficult part by firing Dave. She needs to find by herself the solution; for me, Sam is really like a fugitive now.
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Old Aug 19th, 2013, 05:34 AM   #2036
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

According to TBE's thread, this is the top 16 with New Haven points taken off:

1 Serena Williams 12260
2 Vika Azarenka 9505
3 Maria Sharapova 8766
4 Agnieszka Radwanska 6335
5 Sara Errani 5125
6 Na Li 4825
7 Marion Bartoli 4246
8 Caroline Wozniacki 3490
9 Angelique Kerber 3420
10 Samantha Stosur 3210
11 Jelena Jankovic 3125
12 Petra Kvitova 3090
13 Roberta Vinci 3065
14 Kirsten Flipkens 2961
15 Ana Ivanovic 2940
16 Sloane Stephens 2806

Errani, Woz, Kerber, Kvitty, Vinci and Stephens are playing this week. Again I'm not sure how many redundant points each player has, but Petra and Roby would need to reach at least the SF (probably the final, but I'm not entirely sure), and Sloane would have to win the tournament to overtake Sam.

This has no bearing on the USO seedings. Sam is currently ranked #13, which means she'll be seeded #12, unless Marion decides to play (surely that would be too weird a thing to do even for her)
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Old Aug 19th, 2013, 06:00 AM   #2037
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Btw, Sam is still the only player to have beaten Vika on HCs this year.
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Old Aug 19th, 2013, 06:31 AM   #2038
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

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Originally Posted by Sinclair View Post
And I'd also like to mention that I really and truly appreciate the ranking and points updates that you guys post here. To me, it's all a big confusing jumble of clusterfuckery that I don't have time or inclination to interpret for myself. So big thanks to all of you who can break it down into easier terms for people like me.
Yes, I often have questions about how the ranking situation is progressing throughout a tournament, and usually someone in here provides an explanation throughout the week. Very much appreciated for lazy/mathematically incompetent people such as myself

Having said that, now that Sammy has secured a top 12 ranking at the USO, I'm not too fussed about what her ranking does for awhile. I'd love her to be top eight by the time RG2014 comes around, but until then whether she's in the top 10 or just outside of it doesn't make much difference, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stromatolite
Btw, Sam is still the only player to have beaten Vika on HCs this year.


I made this same point in GM but everyone is studiously ignoring it. I guess they're not ready to recognise that Vika is basically Sammy's pigeon now
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Old Aug 19th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #2039
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

In principle the rankings aren't all that complicated: 4 slams + 4 PMs + best 2 P5s + best 6 other tourneys (including the remaining 3 P5s).

The tricky thing is knowing which points are the lowest currently counting and the highest not currently counting per player, especially because this can change from week to week. This is what determines how much a player can gain or lose in a given week, which is often surprisingly little.

Rankings sites like Huntress referred to keep track of all this, so I really need to bookmark a link to one of them to save myself a lot of hassle

Edit: I found the link Huntress referred to:

http://www.tennis4wta.com/Siralama/s1_50.html

It's a bit cryptic, but what it amounts to is that Kvitty (F), Vinci (F), and Stephens (W) can all pass Sam. Obviously only 2 can make the final, so worst case scenario Sam drops down to 12.

Last edited by stromatolite : Aug 19th, 2013 at 07:19 AM.
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Old Aug 19th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #2040
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Re: Hard Courts American Style: Sam's happy hunting ground

Oops sorry I forgot to post the link haha.
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