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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #166
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

usually i think people making mount from a molehill about coaching...
Its rather pointless judging anything prior results. Example, how Safina went from average top20 player to #1 in one year with a completely unknown and inexperienced (and dick) coach. While VIP cant do anything but firing every big name after 6-9 months...

Although I have 2 points to make.
One of the most important is chemistry, that coach and player be on the same side the whole time.
Another one, Hoggy is a tennis nerd, following womens tennis on a daily basis, scouting opponents and watching youtube for hours. Maria benefited from that background Hoggy offered her. (Even Mouratouglu really helped Serena in this department since he knows a lot of players.) OTOH I can't imagine Connors doing the same on a consistent basis, he wont have & give knowledge about which side of Cadantu is stronger, etc... Or maybe i do underrate him, i dont know.

edit: just to balance out Hoggy's pro-con list, I'm sure Maria wont ruin further her final W/L record with Jimmie as she did in past 2 years. She either wont make it that far or just wins it all.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #167
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

Yes, Thomas is tennis geek, but Maria barely listened to his advice....Moreover I heard that Connors is pretty good at analysis as well. What if Maria will listen to Jimmy more often, what if he will be greater authority for her than her previous coaches. Usually her form kinda declined during US series and USO, what if now all these new circumstances, new coach, tactics, extra motivation mobilize all her strength even more? By the way, it seems she worked out in gym on Sunday, but we all know that this day is her day off....
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #168
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

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Originally Posted by AnnieIWillKnow View Post
I want to good rep you Lachy but I can't...
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+1
Yep.

There's being realistic and there's being downright pessimistic. Mexi your problem is you shuffle between these 2 extremes without any semblance of control, entirely dependent on Martha's results on court (or off court actually looking at some points you made to support your arguments).

It's as though you can't control your narratives anymore, which is a shame because you can actually post really objective analysis.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 02:25 PM   #169
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

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Originally Posted by Pavstry. View Post
Another one, Hoggy is a tennis nerd, following womens tennis on a daily basis, scouting opponents and watching youtube for hours. Maria benefited from that background Hoggy offered her. (Even Mouratouglu really helped Serena in this department since he knows a lot of players.) OTOH I can't imagine Connors doing the same on a consistent basis, he wont have & give knowledge about which side of Cadantu is stronger, etc... Or maybe i do underrate him, i dont know.
Yeah, that's my main worry. For all the rose-tinted glasses talk that the Maria of 2004-08 was a superior player in every way!!!!11 to the Maria of the past few years, one thing she has been better at in recent years is she's been much better strategically, and that's surely because of Hogstedt. For example, the Australian Open semifinal against Kvitova is probably a match she would've lost in her first career -- when Kvitova caught fire in the second half of the match, Maria had come prepared with a B-game of destroying Petra's rhythm, and it was obvious she and Hogstedt had done their homework on what type of shots made Petra uncomfortable, what spots on the court Petra was uncomfortable in, what playing patterns she tended to lapse into on key points, etc. That stands in stark contrast with, for example, that Wimbledon semifinal in 2006 against Mauresmo, which was a winnable match for Maria if she'd just made some basic adjustments to her game and had better anticipation of what Mauresmo's patterns of play were.

....so, like you, I'm worried that she might be disadvantaged losing Hogstedt's knowledge of the other WTA players, and that's why I hope she will still have someone on her team who'll do that kind of research, because as you say Connors probably won't be willing (or able) to do it. Matt Cronin has been saying he suspects there'll be a "junior coach" or something as well, so hopefully that will be someone who knows the WTA more.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #170
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

Omg LOL just saw the Martha being a capitalist for hiring Connors comment from that really passionate non-Martha fan who has been posting in that thread 24/7. Now I've seen it all
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #171
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

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Sickening, the same comments ad nauseum I have to give you credit though, I mean WOW. How you have managed to convince yourself and so many that you are some sort of objective and realistic fan is beyond me. Such a good tactic though, I mean, anytime a fan calls you up on your disgusting and overly sarcastic rants you get to instantly resort to:





Clever (yep take it as a compliment). These two segments within this one, single quote are dripping in so much sarcasm that you could probably fill an ocean.





And of course we have the overly dramatic, negative (not objective, despite what you convince yourself of) histrionics I managed to find within a 2-page post search.







Congratulations on getting a reaction, which no doubt is all you are after. But I really wanted to highlight that your little game is fooling nobody. For the record, I don't care if anyone critiques Maria, I have critiqued her heaps of times myself . I don't expect you to start posting any differently. I have a problem with you trying to cast the illusion that you are even remotely objective and realistic and I will continue to call you out on it because it is incredibly easy to do. What sickens me about posters like you is that the moment she wins another big title [with wins over Azarenka (wow she’s that good in your mind?) and Serena, seeing as though facing them seems to be a condition for winning a big, tough tournament for you] then you will be out there flipping on your ‘opinion’ faster than anyone can click. Based on several quotes from you just in a 2-page post-search, you think she’s done and dusted. Every decision, whether coaching or game related is wrong (not falling for your clever use of – wait for it – NEGATIVE hypotheticals). She’s past her prime. A falling comet destined for a big crash landing. Why bother? Why log in? Why post? Why watch her matches? Why care? I think we both know the answer to that.
I'm touched that you care so much that you took the time to put together a montage of my quotes, even though I'm one insignificant poster in a vast sea of Maria acolytes . A lot of people dismiss sports fandom as a frivolous waste of time, but the emotions it can stir and the way it brings people together or, even repels them, is remarkable. It's great to be passionate about things, no matter what they may be.

I'm sure Maria is very proud of her fanbase and the endless, unwavering support it brings, through all of the ups and downs of a career. These recent events in her life are what make being a follower of hers, being a member of a forum so much fun. Having constuctive, thoughtful, passionate debates and getting different perspectives and seeing things in other ways are what make the boards enjoyable.

And you Lachy are a great poster and a great fan of Maria's and I love seeing you come to Maria's defense. She needs all of the support she can get in this critical transition period of hers. There's never a dull moment in Maria World and we're all in this together, hoping she can overcome all challenges in front of her and become a champion many more times.

A good rep to you my friend.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #172
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

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Omg LOL just saw the Martha being a capitalist for hiring Connors comment from that really passionate non-Martha fan who has been posting in that thread 24/7. Now I've seen it all
There's just something about that poster that is so incredibly annoying, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #173
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
For all the rose-tinted glasses talk that the Maria of 2004-08 was a superior player in every way!!!!11 to the Maria of the past few years, one thing she has been better at in recent years is she's been much better strategically, and that's surely because of Hogstedt.
Sort of agree. Before starting to work with Hogstedt, Martha would mostly stick to the old BS Bolletierite mantra "I don't need to make any adjustments, I'll just go out there and play my game as it's good enough to beat anyone". With Hogstedt in command, she'd often show up for matches with fully thought-out game plans - only sometimes they'd be the wrong ones.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #174
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

dsanders06, I share my opinion with you. Let's see what will Connors bring to the table. I still prefer Maria reaching finals than not reaching them, that is my take on things, a win is best, but if not RU is better than a SF etc.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #175
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavstry. View Post
usually i think people making mount from a molehill about coaching...
Its rather pointless judging anything prior results. Example, how Safina went from average top20 player to #1 in one year with a completely unknown and inexperienced (and dick) coach. While VIP cant do anything but firing every big name after 6-9 months...
First of all I agree with this, we can only hope for the best and prepare for the worst, and judge after the facts.
Quote:
Although I have 2 points to make.
One of the most important is chemistry, that coach and player be on the same side the whole time.
Another one, Hoggy is a tennis nerd, following womens tennis on a daily basis, scouting opponents and watching youtube for hours. Maria benefited from that background Hoggy offered her. (Even Mouratouglu really helped Serena in this department since he knows a lot of players.) OTOH I can't imagine Connors doing the same on a consistent basis, he wont have & give knowledge about which side of Cadantu is stronger, etc... Or maybe i do underrate him, i dont know.

edit: just to balance out Hoggy's pro-con list, I'm sure Maria wont ruin further her final W/L record with Jimmie as she did in past 2 years. She either wont make it that far or just wins it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
....so, like you, I'm worried that she might be disadvantaged losing Hogstedt's knowledge of the other WTA players, and that's why I hope she will still have someone on her team who'll do that kind of research, because as you say Connors probably won't be willing (or able) to do it. Matt Cronin has been saying he suspects there'll be a "junior coach" or something as well, so hopefully that will be someone who knows the WTA more.
I don't know if it's all due to Hogstedt's knowledge of players, for sure he made her a more complete player (specially on clay) and that helped her on winning a lot of matches she wouldn't win before. But I think it's more about completing her game rather than studying her opponent, imho, and that's what I look forward to see about her work with Connors: Hogstedt completed her in certain ways of her game, but couldn't do it on other aspects, so the thing I would like to see more is her game improving in some of the ways she needs to.

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Originally Posted by MM_1257 View Post
dsanders06, I share my opinion with you. Let's see what will Connors bring to the table. I still prefer Maria reaching finals than not reaching them, that is my take on things, a win is best, but if not RU is better than a SF etc.
And I'll always agree with this, no matter who she has to face (Serena) in the finals, one stage further is and always will be better.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #176
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

Maria is out of Stanford.

Really don't know how I feel about this.... I'm expecting some teething problems if she's changing a couple of things with Connors, and perhaps one or two early losses, so I'm not sure playing a tournament less is a good idea right now.
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #177
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

No idea what to say.. I won't pull out the gun yet, let's say skipping this tournament is for training with Connors... Let's hope it will do her good...
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 05:10 PM   #178
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

I mean all her latest social media posts have been training-based photo updates. So maybe she just needs that extra week, but seriously with the field
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #179
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

FML I was only counting days for next week.
hope it's for the best
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Old Jul 15th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #180
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Re: Maria and Thomas go seperate ways

Where has this news even come from? None of the tennis journos I follow on Twitter have said anything
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