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Old May 19th, 2013, 07:06 PM   #2881
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Saraya00000 View Post
Really true. She has to win the title. No excuse.
Given Caro's results of late, I think that's asking too much. I think all she probably has to do/needs to do is beat Zheng or the qualifier in the 2nd round.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #2882
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
ABSOLUTELY NOT!Especially when there are seven years' worth of evidence to prove the norm.You REALLY missed the boat on THAt one...so we'll throw you a life preserver to keep you from drowning

There are COUNTLESS examples in sports when an athlete has had a fluke season,when a mediocre AF player scored 15 goals and never reached five for the rest of his career...the same is true for the NFL,NBA,NHL,baseball,etc.,etc.,etc.

Even in the WTA,we have other examples such as Nadia Petrova's 12-month stretch when she reached #3,then reverted to normal;Anna Kournikova's brief run to #6 in the world,then singles mediocrity in all the years that followed;and Michaella Krajicek,who had 3 titles by the age of 16 and then vanished into complete irrelevance.There are TONS of seasonal flukes...as many critics try to attribute to Caroline's run at #1

....Am taking off for now but,if you'd like to debate this further,just send me a PM so that we don't stray off-topic too much
I disagree. A fluke means that you had a bit of luck. Nobody gets "a bit of luck" for twelve months in a row. If you have great results for twelve months it means you can play. Even if for whatever reason she will never repeat that season it means that the innate ability is there. Same for Caro and her 67 weeks at #1. Like Ozza says, her critics will also try to explain that one away as a fluke, which is impossible. First week? Well, she got lucky. One week later? Oops, she got lucky again. And so on for almost three years (2009-2011) in a row? Impossible. Same for Ivanovic and Jankovic for that matter.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #2883
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Given Caro's results of late, I think that's asking too much. I think all she probably has to do/needs to do is beat Zheng or the qualifier in the 2nd round.
While from a fan perspective I think this is mentality is probably correct. The only real benefit I see of playing Brussels for Caro's mentality is if she wins the title. I can't see losing to another lower ranked player here doing her confidence any good.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #2884
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caroline will get lumped as a fluke if things don't improve, and right now the light at the end of the tunnel isn't really there to see.

Someone mentioned yesterday I think (or very recently anyway) about how Caroline seemed to change her game how her critics said she needed to, to win grand slams. Every one of those critics of Caroline when she was #1 currently feel vindicated, they feel like they were correct all along.
The critics were right. They said Caroline was going to fall and she did. Reasons and excuses dont matter in sports.
No one cares if Tiger Woods had an excuse at The Masters. He didnt win.
Caroline dropped well off the top, and right now it looks like climbing back up is a tough road for her
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Old May 20th, 2013, 01:32 AM   #2885
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I disagree. A fluke means that you had a bit of luck. Nobody gets "a bit of luck" for twelve months in a row. If you have great results for twelve months it means you can play. Even if for whatever reason she will never repeat that season it means that the innate ability is there. Same for Caro and her 67 weeks at #1. Like Ozza says, her critics will also try to explain that one away as a fluke, which is impossible. First week? Well, she got lucky. One week later? Oops, she got lucky again. And so on for almost three years (2009-2011) in a row? Impossible. Same for Ivanovic and Jankovic for that matter.
Well,you are sticking your head in your ass and denying an accepted fact from sports fandom.Virtually EVERYONE who's not from Belgium agrees that a player can have a fluke season.One of the most notable in N.American sports history was when Roger Maris hit 61 home runs in 1961(the pre-PED era),and never even hit 40 in the remainder of his 15-year career.That doesn't mean that Maris was a bad player--he was quite decent--yet he was nowhere near 60-homer caliber.

Likewise,AI is a decent player,but she's not even in the same GALAXY with Henin,Hingis,Graf,Evert or the WS....She's much closer to Flavia Pennetta(much,MUCH closer) than she is to that group of legends.Seven YEARS' worth of fringe-Top 15 tennis,with scant titles outside of that seasonal fluke,have PROVEN that beyond a doubt.

As for Caro,she has had far more consistent success in hr career...and I'd like to think that her #1 run wasn't a fluke...am inclined to say that it WASN'T...but I obviously can't be impartial on that
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #2886
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Well,you are sticking your head in your ass and denying an accepted fact from sports fandom.Virtually EVERYONE who's not from Belgium agrees that a player can have a fluke season.
Well, than everyone who's not from Belgium is wrong.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #2887
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Well, than everyone who's not from Belgium is wrong.
I don't think that it is a fluke to reach three slam finals in a year. Ana definitely benefited from Justine's retirement and from facing Dinara in a slam final and few would argue that she was ever the absolute best player on the tour but she was a solid top five player, maybe even top three, before she collapsed.

Her time near the top of the game was brief but the fact that she has fallen (permanently?) out of the top ten does not negate her accomplishments circa 2007-2008.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 07:51 AM   #2888
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Given Caro's results of late, I think that's asking too much. I think all she probably has to do/needs to do is beat Zheng or the qualifier in the 2nd round.
Hopefully she'll make it further than that. I'm going to Brussels Open on Wed so I'd really like to see her return to a good form whilst I'm there.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #2889
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I don't think that it is a fluke to reach three slam finals in a year. Ana definitely benefited from Justine's retirement and from facing Dinara in a slam final and few would argue that she was ever the absolute best player on the tour but she was a solid top five player, maybe even top three, before she collapsed.

Her time near the top of the game was brief but the fact that she has fallen (permanently?) out of the top ten does not negate her accomplishments circa 2007-2008.
It lloked like Ana would be a superstar. She reached FO final at 18, then won it the next year at 19
I remember Navratilova picked Caroline to win the 2010 US Open. She made the final at 19, reached #1 right after she turned 20. At 2010 US Open she beat Sharapova. But lost to Vera in a SF. Next major had match point in a SF and lost to Li
It was still a solid run by a young star. They both were young stars whose careers fell apart.
Which is unusual. Most of these players who show greatness early do well for years. Think of the group thats around 30 now. Serena, Venus, Hingis, Davenport, Kim, Justine, Amelie..they all stayed at the top for a while. Some won majors immediately. some didnt, but they all had long runs near the top
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Old May 20th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #2890
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I don't think that it is a fluke to reach three slam finals in a year. Ana definitely benefited from Justine's retirement and from facing Dinara in a slam final and few would argue that she was ever the absolute best player on the tour but she was a solid top five player, maybe even top three, before she collapsed.

Her time near the top of the game was brief but the fact that she has fallen (permanently?) out of the top ten does not negate her accomplishments circa 2007-2008.
Well,I almost never quote your posts,for obvious reasons,but you explain yourself semi-well here.

As even Serb diehards realize,it would've only been TWO Slam finals,both decisive losses,had Justine not retired,as the two would've been slated to meet in the SFs of RG 2008.As I explained to our Magic Mushroom-using Belgian,playing fringe Top-15 tennis for seven-plus years defines who you are.It's not as if she even played 12 straight months of top-caliber tennis.She had a 3-month stretch,that I outlined on the previous page...plus a good AO '08 and RG '08.The rest of that Spring '07-Spring '08 she produced LOTS of crap tennis.W/o the confidence boost she got from Henin's retirement,she likely wouldn't even have reached the semis to face her.There's a difference between 4 months of great tennis and being a truly great Slam champion

There are countless other examples,such as Roger Maris' 61-homer season that I cited earlier;Mark Gastineau collecting 22 sacks back in 1981(or thereabouts);bush-league Quarterback Scott Mitchell throwing for more than 4,000 yards in 1995 with an elite corps of wide receivers PLUS Barry Sanders at Running Back;journeyman hockey players who racked up 40 goals one season and never more than 20 in any others;and NBA players who eclipsed 20 points per game one year and then didn't even reach double digits in the remainders of their careers.It doesn't mean that all of those players SUCKED,only that their production,over the course of an entire season,was a fluke.Likewise,only a mindless hater would assert that Caroline wasn't a fine tennis player,but knowledgeable sports fans could provide plenty of arguments--such as the athletes above--that Caro's #1 run was a fluke and that she was merely top 10 caliber......As I've said,I'm disinclined to accept that,yet that's largely based on my fanship of Caroline
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Old May 20th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #2891
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Well,I almost never quote your posts,for obvious reasons,but you explain yourself semi-well here.

As even Serb diehards realize,it would've only been TWO Slam finals,both decisive losses,had Justine not retired,as the two would've been slated to meet in the SFs of RG 2008.As I explained to our Magic Mushroom-using Belgian,playing fringe Top-15 tennis for seven-plus years defines who you are.It's not as if she even played 12 straight months of top-caliber tennis.She had a 3-month stretch,that I outlined on the previous page...plus a good AO '08 and RG '08.The rest of that Spring '07-Spring '08 she produced LOTS of crap tennis.W/o the confidence boost she got from Henin's retirement,she likely wouldn't even have reached the semis to face her.There's a difference between 4 months of great tennis and being a truly great Slam champion
Well, why are you constantly bashing Ivanovic for wasting away her talent if you think she's wasn't that big of a deal to begin with? You say that the WTA should stop using her in promos because she's a bad example of a talented player not fullfilling her potential. But if her success in 2008 was just a fluke there's no reason for the WTA to do any such thing because as she is now is how good she can be. If anything they should praise her for overachieving in 2008.
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Old May 20th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #2892
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Well, why are you constantly bashing Ivanovic for wasting away her talent if you think she's wasn't that big of a deal to begin with? You say that the WTA should stop using her in promos because she's a bad example of a talented player not fullfilling her potential. But if her success in 2008 was just a fluke there's no reason for the WTA to do any such thing because as she is now is how good she can be. If anything they should praise her for overachieving in 2008.
It will be the same for Ana & Caro. If their best results are over, they will be considered never that good, because the best players dont disappear from the top like this. They keep cycling back to the top, no matter what the adversity was
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #2893
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Well, why are you constantly bashing Ivanovic for wasting away her talent if you think she's wasn't that big of a deal to begin with? You say that the WTA should stop using her in promos because she's a bad example of a talented player not fullfilling her potential. But if her success in 2008 was just a fluke there's no reason for the WTA to do any such thing because as she is now is how good she can be. If anything they should praise her for overachieving in 2008.
That's actually a thoughtful response that you came up with,so I'll explain.

As she is now--and has been from the beginning,pretty much--THIS is her level.However,if she ever HAD applied herself...with a sincere commitment to fitness and the mental game...she COULD have been a Top 5 regular,at least...possibly even a consistent Slam contender.The brief Slam success was a reflection of the God-given talent that she did very little to augment,thus there was almost no chance of it being replicated.

Underachievers bear the great majority of the blame for their wasted talent,but at least PART of the blame falls on Stacy Allaster and the No-accountability Subculture that she and others at the WTA have fostered.Do you have a really pretty face?Do you dislike physical training and self-discipline? NO PROBLEM!!!We'll play right along with our P.R. Dept. in pretending that all of your concocted B.S. injuries are legit...and we'll help you exaggerate paper cuts on your hand as if they were life-threatening.As long as you smile sweetly for the camera,we don't care what kind of crap you produce on court whenever you don't feel like playing.All those ticket-paying customers that you cheated out of their money with your pathetic tank jobs and phony excuses for WD'ing from tournaments???We'll pacify them with a line of bull that sounds just halfway plausible.As long as you keep looking attractive in photo shoots to let us retain our core base,we couldn't care less about alienating hard-working,blue-collar folk...OR about the quality of play on court.

I'm not sure to what extent that No-Accountability subculture affects Caroline,but why the f--k should she try hard if the WTA will keep promoting her as some sort of legend no matter HOW many 1st-round losses she accumulates??
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Old May 20th, 2013, 06:52 PM   #2894
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I'm so glad to see that Caro is playing Brussels! I've been such a neglectful fan recently but I'm looking forward to cheering her on here. Hope she can get a couple of wins on clay under her belt before FO
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Old May 21st, 2013, 04:34 AM   #2895
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Well,let's hope that the Belgian weather is more reliable than the army--There were a couple rainouts yesterday but Brussels is almost on schedule...would rather not see Caroline doubling or tripling up to play make-up matches
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