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Old May 17th, 2013, 04:36 AM   #2821
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
You posted events the opposite way to the way they happened Hoergren. That "desperate" search for a viable replacement for the first seed is what ended with them getting Caroline.

In the rest of that, Aga says "I will therefore try to get back next year". No-one told her the tournament will be an international next year then, I doubt she will be back next year, or ever again, given last year is the last edition I think.
Well sorry about that but I saw it the other way round and just thought that people would like to know - hope you survive International next year - well could be a nice little warm up for the FO - we'll see what happens. Hope she'll survive 1st round in this tournament, so she can get some matches into her bones.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 04:42 AM   #2822
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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It's hard to know really. She could be trying to set recent wrongs right, she may be desperate for matches, but she doesn't give the impression she even wants to be out there right now. You'd hope it's neither of the last two, but sadly I can't rule them out.
Yeah,the deeper emotions aren't quantifiable,nor are they explainable in the simplest terms.

My best guess is that Caro doesn't enjoy tennis as much anymore and is less driven to succeed......yet,at the same time,she has been a goal-oriented person for years and can't completely turn that off.On top of that,she probably has at least some small sense of obligation,down at her very core,to give herself a chance to fulfill that potential that she showed in 2010 and 2011...and to write a fitting final chapter to the sport that has been such a huge part of her life for about a decade now............Those are just guesses,but have been deduced from how Caroline has frequently expressed herself in recent years
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Old May 17th, 2013, 06:34 AM   #2823
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Yeah,the deeper emotions aren't quantifiable,nor are they explainable in the simplest terms.

My best guess is that Caro doesn't enjoy tennis as much anymore and is less driven to succeed......yet,at the same time,she has been a goal-oriented person for years and can't completely turn that off.On top of that,she probably has at least some small sense of obligation,down at her very core,to give herself a chance to fulfill that potential that she showed in 2010 and 2011...and to write a fitting final chapter to the sport that has been such a huge part of her life for about a decade now............Those are just guesses,but have been deduced from how Caroline has frequently expressed herself in recent years
Well, in the interview with Justin Gimelstob at the end of last year she says that thinking back to that SF against Li Na that she lost at the AO 2011 still hurts her. I don't think she can have completely lost her passion for the game up to a point where she just doesn't care anymore only a few months later. Yet it looks that way - but looks can be deceiving.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #2824
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Hoergren View Post
Well sorry about that but I saw it the other way round and just thought that people would like to know - hope you survive International next year - well could be a nice little warm up for the FO - we'll see what happens. Hope she'll survive 1st round in this tournament, so she can get some matches into her bones.
The downside to there being no premiers next year the week before the French Open is that out of form top 10 players simply won't be able to play to tune their games. I highly doubt Caro is going to commit to a clay international (Aga probably will, just it will be in Katowice instead). It's a pretty bad situation tbh, and another one that the WTA seem to have put a lack of thought into.

ps. I wasn't criticising you , I was pointing it out so no-one interprets it as Brussels are still looking for a new number 1 seed.

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Old May 17th, 2013, 07:19 AM   #2825
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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The downside to there being no premiers next year the week before the French Open is that out of form top 10 players simply won't be able to play to tune their games. I highly doubt Caro is going to commit to a clay international (Aga probably will, just it will be in Katowice instead). It's a pretty bad situation tbh, and another one that the WTA seem to have put a lack of thought into.
Perhaps the WTA just figures that Brussels hasn't got strong enough draws to justify it having premier status.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #2826
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Perhaps the WTA just figures that Brussels hasn't got strong enough draws to justify it having premier status.
It's going altogether in 2015 (replaced by Nottingham international on grass the week after the French Open instead). Logistically this leaves a pretty bad situation. Right now the 2015 build up to Roland Garros looks like this (it's not finalised so this could end up being rubbish if they do change it) :-

Katowice
Stuttgart, Marrakech
Oeiras
Madrid
Rome
Strasbourg

And that is it. That is ridiculously bare. Most weeks of the year when there are internationals going on, there are 2 or 3 tournaments going on at once (in fact apart from the 3 listed above, during every other international there is another tournament going on somewhere). Those 3 internationals in stand alone weeks will have packed fields by international standards. So if you are ranked #80, the only event you will have any chance getting into directly is Marrakech, it will be pretty tough for you to get good warm ups before Roland Garros.

Last edited by ozza : May 17th, 2013 at 07:36 AM.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #2827
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I don't agree with that at all, if Caro played her 2011 form she'd be top 5.
I agree with you on that. But with that said, it's one of those never ending GM discussions. Is Peak Evert better than Peak Seles? Was 80% Martina N better than 67.5% Peak Graf? Is Peak Ivanovic's FH better than 5 birds on a roof? Would Novotnavic be a top 5 player today?

It's all just guess work and mainly biased towards MY fave(s). (They are better than yours!).

What we can deal with is facts and Caro is not playing well - FACT. And she'll likely not play well in Brussels neither. *sighs*
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Old May 17th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #2828
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I dont think she is going to take a vacation. If she did, she would be watching a lot of golf.
Playing Brussels is the right move. She hasnt played many matches, has not won a match since early at Charleston.
So she hasnt won a red clay match. She needs to play, but she needs to be mentally into the match, the whole way through.
Her head is the problem. Whether its confidence, or lack of focus. Physically she's fine and her efforts in Dubai & IW are fine.
Its mental consistency she's missing
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Old May 17th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #2829
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Pathetic loss to Jovanovski in Rome R1

A new low. Caroline has officially hit rock bottom

4-0 in 3rd set -> 4-4
Serving for match at 5-4 -> Broken to 0 with a DF
5-2 in Tiebreak -> loses last 5 points 5-7

Unbelievable how mentally weak Caroline has become

Caroline has huge problems to beat anyone
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Old May 17th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #2830
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
I agree with you on that. But with that said, it's one of those never ending GM discussions.What's better than 5 birds on a roof?

What we can deal with is facts and Caro is not playing well - FACT. And she'll likely not play well in Brussels neither. *sighs*
Hope you don't mind my slight editing but,being a bird lover,I couldn't resist the latter part.I even appreciate ugly crows and pigeons for the ways that they strut...even buzzards,for the fact that they gratefully eat,w/o any apparent complaint,the most grotesque roadkill imaginable.If I decided to rob a bank here and use the proceeds to take vacation in England,what WOULD be the going rate to purchase 5 birds on a roof...and which British agency would I contact to obtain a bird-purchasing permit?

On a more relevant note,you're right about the subjectivity of comparing players of different eras,or even brief points in time.The only truly credible judges would be those who had faced both players(if applicable)...or perhaps a coach who had worked with both.That being said,my personal bias tells me that peak Caro would've been able to make it at as a reasonably solid #4 or 5 within the current group...though it's anybody's guess how long Caroline would've remained there
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Old May 17th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #2831
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by rucolo View Post
Pathetic loss to Jovanovski in Rome R1

A new low. Caroline has officially hit rock bottom

4-0 in 3rd set -> 4-4
Serving for match at 5-4 -> Broken to 0 with a DF
5-2 in Tiebreak -> loses last 5 points 5-7

Unbelievable how mentally weak Caroline has become

Caroline has huge problems to beat anyone
Its very possible Caroline will never be a top player again.
I'll always blame her dad & adidas coaches for convincing Caroline its okay to lose, its okay to make a lot of forehand errors, and try to be aggressive with her forehand. Its messed up the foundation of her game.
Now she plays like she's mentally soft. It might never change back. Its already been almost 2 years
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Old May 17th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #2832
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
On a more relevant note,you're right about the subjectivity of comparing players of different eras,or even brief points in time.The only truly credible judges would be those who had faced both players(if applicable)...or perhaps a coach who had worked with both.That being said,my personal bias tells me that peak Caro would've been able to make it at as a reasonably solid #4 or 5 within the current group...though it's anybody's guess how long Caroline would've remained there
I agree with that. Peak Caro would now not be up with the Serena, Maria and Vika trio, but she'd still be close behind them in the company of Aga and Li Na. So she's be #4, 5 or 6 now - of that I'm convinced.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #2833
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I agree with that. Peak Caro would now not be up with the Serena, Maria and Vika trio, but she'd still be close behind them in the company of Aga and Li Na. So she's be #4, 5 or 6 now - of that I'm convinced.
This may just be part of the problem though. If Caroline sees it like that, which is very possible, it's hardly a great source of motivation. I use to be number 1, but now my best may only be good enough for number 5. If she can't envision herself competing with the best players, it wouldn't be that surprising to struggle with your desire and motivation.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #2834
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
This may just be part of the problem though. If Caroline sees it like that, which is very possible, it's hardly a great source of motivation. I use to be number 1, but now my best may only be good enough for number 5. If she can't envision herself competing with the best players, it wouldn't be that surprising to struggle with your desire and motivation.
Thats no excuse to lose to everybody. She just lost to a player who lost 8 in a row, then lost 60 62 to Jankovic.
Caroline is gone mentally. There's no fight. She needs to fight like her career matters to her. She's playing like she doesnt care.
Thats what she did last summer also. She went 2 months without a win, and that lasted thru Wimbledon(a match where she tried hard). Now again she's gone over a month without a single match win.
She used to win the most matches and most titles on the tour
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Old May 17th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #2835
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Thats no excuse to lose to everybody. She just lost to a player who lost 8 in a row, then lost 60 62 to Jankovic.
Caroline is gone mentally. There's no fight. She needs to fight like her career matters to her. She's playing like she doesnt care.
Thats what she did last summer also. She went 2 months without a win, and that lasted thru Wimbledon(a match where she tried hard). Now again she's gone over a month without a single match win.
She used to win the most matches and most titles on the tour
My point was if Caro believes her best isn't good enough then that might be a tough hurdle to get over, leading to her being "gone mentally", in turn leading to bad performances on the court. There has to be a degree of her whole tennis world has come crashing down around her in the last 18 months.
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