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Old May 10th, 2013, 06:59 AM   #2476
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Originally Posted by KatjaS View Post
There goes the chance to be seeded at the FO.

How do they always get these brutal bugs? It was already affecting her last saturday against Flipkens and now she has to cancel Rome because of it.

look on the bright side, all Monas best results: hobart, Paris etc are when she is a qualifier, or unseeded
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Old May 11th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #2477
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Hi Jalusbrian ! It`s always nice when new fans of Mona show up here. Esspecially in times when you actually can not exactly be fond of the way she plays and things seemingly are not working well for her.

I think you came up with some pretty unique and astonishing stuff here.

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The loss there was due to strain from the 3 set matches she had played Fed Cup. She decided to do her bit for germany by playing Fed Cup, her reward for aiding germany is to be called 'lazy' 'tanking' etc
Had she NOT played Fed Cup she would have won her singles match.
The issue is health and fitnes...Mona has never 'tanked'.
I don`t remember that anyone here seriously called her lazy or that she is tanking matches. It alleges that she does play bad on purpose, which is not the case.
Your prediction about her FedCup appearence is quite a claim. Reasoning the results of a player with if, had or would is pretty much a difficult thing because it`s illusionary.
Out of my view her performances at that event were a glimmer of light that her form curve could turn up again after a time of bad matches since Indian Wells.
Being healthy and fit of course is a good precondition but imo it`s not what it`s all about in sports.

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Mona has no attitude or mental problem: she always gives her best;
When you have been watching some of her matches in the last time you can clearly notice that she has also problems with her mindset.
Listen to her talk with her mum in the break against Pegula. Mona is mentioning it on her own there.
And obviously for such reasons she seemed not to be able to show and give her best on the court - not just on that occasion when you look at the similar currency of some other matches.

From my observation physical problems often come along with so called "mental" issues, the same it`s the other way round, in good and bad overall effects. There is a close relation and imo they are a part of a superordinate process.

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it must be true or why skip Rome? or are people saying shes/or her mother are lying?
It`s quite unlikely but I wouldn`t rule that completely out.
But the intention of my post was not just exactly what you took out of it.

More likely is that Mona has some issues. Let`s hope that she is healthy and successful very soon again on the court.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #2478
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

hi joy division, in fact the word 'tank' was used here http://www.tennisforum.com/showthrea...488658&page=11
Mona herself said she was exhausted after her Fed cup matches.Those matches were new to her and the environment would have drained her emotionally.
Pegula: Mona on her site says: 'The back problems that I had in Miami and Charleston, (which occurred for the first time in Doha,) have now been eliminated.'
as i recall back problems ended Serenas run at Aus open!
Where do mental problems originate? I read the conversation between Mona and her mother. Shen says her game had left her, thats the root of her anguish...not the other way round. Back issues would have affected her game
She won doubles with Sabine,,i saw the matches online...absolutely no mental issues, her game had returned, and no sign of back issues
'From my observation physical problems often come along with so called "mental" issues'
id say its the reverse...
'When you have been watching some of her matches in the last time you can clearly notice that she has also problems with her mindset.'
so far examining her website, i see that 'mental' issues correlate with physical issues.
Ive seen plenty of Monas interviews...no sign she has 'mental' issues, per se, that is she doesnt suddenly go mental for no reason. If she had they occur every now and then.
Fitness these days is everything...it can be a different between winning and losing. Gone are the days of 'tennis anyone'?! Consider Nadal and his knees, Roger and his back.

as a Mona fan i support her all the way!

cheers
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Old May 11th, 2013, 08:48 AM   #2479
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Firstly, Flipkens has been, in the last year or so, in her career best form, and she is ranked 8 places above Mona, so this hardly is an upset, although it would be considered a winnable match.

We also didn't see the match so we are lacking something in being sure exactly what happened.

There certainly seems to be a worrying trend in Mona's matches though. After she missed the chances to break at 4-4 in the first set, she lost many games easily. She seems to become a bit negative if things start slipping away.

A similar pattern could be seen in Bojana's match today against Julia. After losing the key game at 4-5 when she had just broken Julia and was back on serve, the match slipped away from her, albeit a bit more slowly than in Mona's match. Both of these girls have been losing a lot of matches recently and have unknowingly developed some kind of losing habit which manifests at key moments in matches and causes momentum to get away from them.

This is a difficult situation for Mona.

Many things are open to speculation, but it is clear that the current situation is not working well enough for her and right now she does not seem capable of dealing with this problem by herself. She needs to have a way of stopping or at least slowing down the slide when her game slips away form her.

There is a certain mindset needed to compete at the highest level, and Mona is not doing it, and possibly some other things, right at the moment.

Of course it's theoretically possible for her to figure out how to remain in a competitive mindset under pressure by herself, but a bit of help would probably not go amiss.

Nonetheless she is still ranked 30 or close to it in the world and in my opinion every match is a good opportunity to break the losing habit. So I think she needs to keep playing. But before she steps out on court next time she needs to find her fighting mentality. She has to find a way of fighting back against opponents, against losing situations, against tiredness, against bad form. Sometimes when you are out on court and your game isn't working the way you want, you feel like you are your own worst enemy. It requires a kind of mental toughness to be able to battle not only your opponent but your own game. It's a necessary skill though because on some days your game is not your friend, but an adversary, and you still want to win on those days too.

Mona would have no problem fighting against even the toughest opponent if her game were her ally, as it was in some of her earlier matches some months ago. But when her game doesn't seem to be her friend anymore she starts to become mentally lost.

When you seem to have no allies on court, even your favourite shots are betraying you, you need to keep fighting, alone if necessary. Beat your opponent without your backhand, without your serve, without anything except will power. Even when your own mind seems to be your enemy, you still need to find a way to win or at the very least compete tough.

Maybe this was the difference in Fed Cup, where Mona felt she had allies. Also, it helped that Bojana was in poor form.

The other side of that coin is that if you are prone to bad form you need to become good at coaxing better tennis out of your game even when things seem to not be working. Some players are able to do that, they can be playing horribly but over a period of minutes they make adjustments and find a way to make the backhand, to make the return of serve.

You normally wouldn't think of Petra Kvitova as being an example of a good match player, she is so up and down, but she is very aware that even when playing horribly she might start finding her shots at some point, and she turns around a surprising number of matches after playing awful tennis. That's why she is number 8 despite her ability to play some of the worst tennis in existence. (I suspect that if she ever got in proper shape she could be significantly higher). Whereas when Mona starts to play badly you don't get the sense that she thinks she can find her tennis again. It seems that she starts to feel the situation is hopeless. Petra is surely worried when she starts bashing the ball miles out, but she keeps going in the hope that she will find the range again in time to turn the match.


I admit that Flipkens' game is designed to make it difficult for an opponent to establish a rhythm, as well.

Do we have any reports from people who saw it live?
I have always thought that Petra Kvitova is a phenomenol match player and i think she proved that when she played the biggest match of her life against Sharapova in Wimbledon 2011. I like how she keeps going for her shots with a clear determination, no matter her form or the scoreline. She is by no means a headcase, as some posters in GM say, she is just an inconsistent player. As quick as she can lose three or four games in a row by spraying errors, she can easily win the next five by finding her shots again. It seems that Petra has accepted the special nature of her game and this is why she is able to pull her game through with some sort of stoicism (the german word is "Gleichmut"), without giving anything away from her determination at the same time.

So i think you are absolutely right, Mona could (should) use Petra as a role model, as she needs to develop the same sort of basic trust to her game in order to be able to play with a similar kind of stoicism like Petra, especially when things go wrong in a match.

(On a side note: If Petra ever sorts out her fitness issues, i am quite sure she will be the one to seriously challenge Serena Williams.)
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Old May 11th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #2480
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
I have always thought that Petra Kvitova is a phenomenol match player and i think she proved that when she played the biggest match of her life against Sharapova in Wimbledon 2011. I like how she keeps going for her shots with a clear determination, no matter her form or the scoreline. She is by no means a headcase, as some posters in GM say, she is just an inconsistent player. As quick as she can lose three or four games in a row by spraying errors, she can easily win the next five by finding her shots again. It seems that Petra has accepted the special nature of her game and this is why she is able to pull her game through with some sort of stoicism (the german word is "Gleichmut"), without giving anything away from her determination at the same time.

So i think you are absolutely right, Mona could (should) use Petra as a role model, as she needs to develop the same sort of basic trust to her game in order to be able to play with a similar kind of stoicism like Petra, especially when things go wrong in a match.

(On a side note: If Petra ever sorts out her fitness issues, i am quite sure she will be the one to seriously challenge Serena Williams.)
yes Petra comes and goes, esp 2nd set walkabout! Interesting she along with Mona is my fav young star, the two have some features in their game in common. esp the number of winners can be remarkable.
Petra challenged Serena very well in Doha, its rare to Serena flailing to get a ball that that bullets past her.Serena praised Petra after that game
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Old May 11th, 2013, 08:56 AM   #2481
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Originally Posted by jalusbrian View Post
hi joy division, in fact the word 'tank' was used here http://www.tennisforum.com/showthrea...488658&page=11
Mona herself said she was exhausted after her Fed cup matches.Those matches were new to her and the environment would have drained her emotionally.
Pegula: Mona on her site says: 'The back problems that I had in Miami and Charleston, (which occurred for the first time in Doha,) have now been eliminated.'
as i recall back problems ended Serenas run at Aus open!
Where do mental problems originate? I read the conversation between Mona and her mother. Shen says her game had left her, thats the root of her anguish...not the other way round. Back issues would have affected her game
She won doubles with Sabine,,i saw the matches online...absolutely no mental issues, her game had returned, and no sign of back issues
'From my observation physical problems often come along with so called "mental" issues'
id say its the reverse...
'When you have been watching some of her matches in the last time you can clearly notice that she has also problems with her mindset.'
so far examining her website, i see that 'mental' issues correlate with physical issues.
Ive seen plenty of Monas interviews...no sign she has 'mental' issues, per se, that is she doesnt suddenly go mental for no reason. If she had they occur every now and then.
Fitness these days is everything...it can be a different between winning and losing. Gone are the days of 'tennis anyone'?! Consider Nadal and his knees, Roger and his back.

as a Mona fan i support her all the way!

cheers
In concern of the match against Pegula and her back problems that she had at that time - Mona didn`t mention these issues at all in the talk with her mother.
Therefore I don`t know how much it actually affected her and I`m not sure whether it was the main and only reason for her sluggish performance.

Of course Mona has no mental issue or injury per se as you rightly say.
When you read the posts towards her performances in FedCup not just a few of us were wondering why she wasn`t inspired, but drained out emotionally by these event. There are hints that Mona does not easy with expections which come from the outside and which she has on her own, although she`s a very smart person.

I absolutely agree on what you said about the fitness.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 09:03 AM   #2482
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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In concern of the match against Pegula and her back problems that she had at that time - Mona didn`t mention these issues at all in the talk with her mother.
Therefore I don`t know how much it actually affected her and I`m not sure whether it was the main and only reason for her sluggish performance.

Of course Mona has no mental issue or injury per se as you rightly say.
When you read the posts towards her performances in FedCup not just a few of us were wondering why she wasn`t inspired, but drained out emotionally by these event. There are hints that Mona does not easy with expections which come from the outside and which she has on her own, although she`s a very likeable and smart person.

I absolutely agree on what you said about the fitness.
she may not have mentioned it because both knew about it. We only get to see an isolated snippet of their conversations, context is missing.
Fed Cup she did very well for a rooky! Playing for your team and country is a very different thing to playing for youself. A crowd can be emotionally draining where there are expectations placed on the player. As we see the fear of failure. A person recently after Li Na's loss on TF said that this proves Li is overrated(absurd, but there you go)....This sort of negativity or fear or it can affect a players game.
Lets see how she goes next year in Fed Cup
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Old May 11th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #2483
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Interesting post.
Her home coach Schürlesmann who is working with her for some years has been quoted that he does not travel with her because he thinks Mona knows at best on her own what she has to do on the court.

Mona obviously still agrees with him in this point. She mentioned something similar on a question towards her coach situation in a recent interview after Paris.
I guess that her mum`s talks in the breaks who always appeals to her intuition and inner voice, etc. are in conformity with and probably even arranged with her home coach.
I think that`s not wrong per se. Mature players indeed don`t need much advice in their matches and it might have been working pretty well for her in the early stage of her career on the ITF level.
But for now it`s a fatal misjugdement when you see how ridiculously helpless she is at times on the court, finding herself once again in a similar situation overall like in the last season with similar awful performances.
Mona actually can`t ignore that anymore.
on this important topic, a blogger made the interesting comment a month or so ago that Petra Kvitova's win in Dubai was because her coach was NOT present. She therefore had to solve problems on her own.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 09:14 AM   #2484
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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It's really hard for us to be optimistic knowing how easily can Mona be in self-destruct mode. Her attitude is awful.
if people will examine her website, she says she had back problems from Doha leading to Miami and Charleston, she had gastro problems in Madrid...so not playing Rome.
Stuttgart came following 2 3 set matches in FEDCUP (fatigue) Loss to Ivanovic due to Rooky nerves etc etc

Whats awful is peoples ignorance.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #2485
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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if people will examine her website, she says she had back problems from Doha leading to Miami and Charleston, she had gastro problems in Madrid...so not playing Rome.
Stuttgart came following 2 3 set matches in FEDCUP (fatigue) Loss to Ivanovic due to Rooky nerves etc etc

Whats awful is peoples ignorance.
Who are you? Mona's lawyer? or her mum?

I always examine her website. What I said is my opinion and many agree with me by the way. You have your opinion and I have mine. She has mental and attitude problems. Did injury affect her tennis in the last few events to some degree? sure. Was her injury a major one? No. Most tennis players have to deal with some kind of pain/injury by the way not just Mona. No one is 100% healthy so I can't completely blame what she did in her last 2 matches on injury.

I love Mona more than you do but I won't be blind fan and stop criticizing her when she deserves to be criticized.

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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #2486
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Who are you? Mona's lawyer? or her mum?

I always examine her website. What I said is my opinion and many agree with me by the way. You have your opinion and I have mine. She has mental and attitude problems. Did injury affect her tennis in the last few events to some degree? sure. Was her injury a major one? No. Most tennis players have to deal with some kind of pain/injury by the way not just Mona. No one is 100% healthy so I can't completely blame what she did in her last 2 matches on injury.

I love Mona more than you do but I won't be blind fan and stop criticizing her when she deserves to be criticized.

neither ,..im an admirer of her tennis and of her attitude, both are exceptionable. I dont deal in opinions. What you perceive as mental problem are due to illness and injury, but you dont see these...all you see is the visible effect on her game.
yes players have to deal with injury, thats when they too show 'mental problems'

For someone who claims to be a fan of Mona, you dont seem to follow her game very closely.

FYI fans criticising players have caused a canadian player to stop playing.And no you have no right to criticise her at all...you arent her mother...youre someone who has an emotional investment in her game, like a gambler who is outraged that his player didnt win and so lost him money(saw that on a FB tennis fan site!)
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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:35 AM   #2487
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

I wish to make a comment here on an issue that people seem not to be very clear on. ive seen people post vicious comments on players who have losses, here and on Facebook. What would be the effect on a player if he or she came to this board and read some snarky or nasty comment? ONe canadian player has resigned, thanks to vicious social media comment. So: Please refrain from such behaviour,this ought to be a rule on TF.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/tennis...5476--ten.html

backseat driving?
the irony is people get so attached to a player that if they fail, the result is a feeling of outrage in the viewer.

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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #2488
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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neither ,..im an admirer of he tennis and of her attitude, both are exceptionable. I dont deal in opinions. What you perceive as mental problem are due to illness and injury, but you dont see these...all you see is the visible effect on her game.
yes players have to deal with injury, thats when they too show 'mental problems'

For someone who claims to be a fan of Mona, you dont seem to follow her game very closely.

FYI fans criticising players have caused a canadian player to stop playing.And no you have no right to criticise her at all...you arent her mother.
Sorry to disappoint you but what you said aren't facts (facts in your mind only). That's just your opinion.



Quote:
For someone who claims to be a fan of Mona, you dont seem to follow her game very closely.


Good one. Made me laugh.

Quote:
FYI fans criticising players have caused a canadian player to stop playing.And no you have no right to criticise her at all...you arent her mother.


Mona doesn't have a twitter or facebook account unlike that Canadian player. Mona doesn't read TF too. And no, her fans have the right to criticize her when she deserves to be criticized.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #2489
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Sorry to disappoint you but what you said aren't facts (facts in your mind only). That's just your opinion.







Good one. Made me laugh.





Mona doesn't have a twitter or facebook account unlike that Canadian player. Mona doesn't read TF too. And no, her fans have the right to criticize her when she deserves to be criticized.

yes ive seen the 'criticism' includes saying shes 'tanking'.
and FYI
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/tennis...5476--ten.html

the 'criticism can get nasty..care for me to show you egs?
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Old May 11th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #2490
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

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Originally Posted by jalusbrian View Post
you arent her mother...youre someone who has an emotional investment in her game, like a gambler who is outraged that his player didnt win and so lost him money(saw that on a FB tennis fan site!)
I never gambled in my entire life and I don't have any emotional investment in her game. Your trolling is poor. Try harder next time.
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