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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #2326
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
The players you mention are in mind still professional. They may have lost that edge they once had, but they are still relatively professional how they go about themselves. I think the problem is how do they judge "the bs" that you talk about.

What is your actual suggestion on what they should do? Because on relative terms Ana and Caro are still a success. Ana is still ranked top 20, Caro is still ranked top 10.
Well, they are all professional, aren't they? Not every player can be in the top five. It's mathematically impossible.

What Bruce is suggesting is basically turning the WTA site into something more critical, like for example tennis.com, but more so if I understand him correctly. But you know how much we like it here when Bodo or Cronin are having a go at Caro. It wouldn't be any different if there would be a Bodo type at the WTA site who constantly bashes Ivanovic. Fans wouldn't say that he's right. They would just say that he's an asshole. Besides, girls like Ana (or Caroline for that matter) hardly need the WTA site to be popular.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 11:04 AM   #2327
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
turning the WTA site into something more critical


What a silly idea. And that's to put it mildly. (I know it didn't come from you, Chrissie).

WTA's product is the players. Why the F### would they bash their own product. Show me just ONE business, which has bloggers or commentators on their web site bashing (writing critically about. Whatever) their own product.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 11:12 AM   #2328
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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What a silly idea. And that's to put it mildly. (I know it didn't come from you, Chrissie).

WTA's product is the players. Why the F### would they bash their own product. Show me just ONE business, which has bloggers or commentators on their web site bashing (writing critically about. Whatever) their own product.
I 100% agree. The WTA is supposed to put their players in the best possible light and to represent them. There's a place for bloggers and critical analysis, but that place is not the WTA site.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #2329
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

The WTA also want to stay on the players good sides. If you alienate a player, and then that player goes on to become number 1 or something, you are left in a very awkward situation. It's not really in their interests to say anything remotely controversial.

In other news, Madrid another Premier Mandatory with crap coverage next week . I think we get 4 WTA matches a day from Monday, of course the first round is Saturday and Sunday.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 01:04 PM   #2330
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

The WTA wants as many stars as possible. Having a top 10 player from 10 different countries is what they want.
But they really want another star from China, a young player coming up. Thats the big financial prize, if it happens.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #2331
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

As far as Caro I like too see her work with Darren Cahill, I remember during RG last year her serve was way more flatten out do too her working with Darren Cahill so hopeful them work together again, I still like too see her & Sven train and work together as well.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #2332
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Well, they are all professional, aren't they? Not every player can be in the top five. It's mathematically impossible.

What Bruce is suggesting is basically turning the WTA site into something more critical, like for example tennis.com, but more so if I understand him correctly. But you know how much we like it here when Bodo or Cronin are having a go at Caro. It wouldn't be any different if there would be a Bodo type at the WTA site who constantly bashes Ivanovic. Fans wouldn't say that he's right. They would just say that he's an asshole. Besides, girls like Ana (or Caroline for that matter) hardly need the WTA site to be popular.
To answer you AND Ozza and,to a degree TF66(who's apparently having a little snit at me and can't be cordial anymore),that earlier post from a while back was more of a joke borne of frustration.OF COURSE the WTA can't openly bash the players or else that would create an unstable,hostile atmosphere.What they CAN do is subtly make it known to the half-assers that their non-effort wasn't appreciated.As I posted before,the worst punishment you could give some of these wannabe cover girls would be to take their faces out of circulation.You couldn't control private sponsors,obviously,but certain players would become non-persons,in the old USSR sense,in terms of disappearing from WTA photo galleries or any promo material until they got their shit together.Even tourney bosses--if they sought co-operation from the WTA--could be told which players were on the 'Shit List' and shouldn't have their faces on promo material.There are PLENTY of lovely faces in the WTA,so not using one particular player wouldn't kill promotional efforts...besides,you could still advertise the player's APPEARANCE,only without her FACE.

I have no doubt that players would intuit the message soon enough,and they could maintain their dignity by privately complaining to the WTA if they wanted.Further,you'd still mention the players results exactly the same way--minus the excuse-making coddling--in match summary articles,so it wouldn't be complete Non-Person treatment.Most of the shallower gals would feel this punishment as a MAJOR slight,even if they didn't discuss it publicly.There would be no Ranking Minimum,either;just the understanding that the player make a sincere,professional effort if she sought star treatment again.

As for Caroline,I don't think that she would necessarily deserve such discipline in this scenario...but,then again,I'm biased in Sunshine's favor......Am off to work
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #2333
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

^
The problem is how are you deciding this list exactly. You have named someone who is #16 in the world on this list. So are you judging on perceived level you think they should be at, playing to their best etc? Because most small tournaments would like Ivanovic world number 16 in their tournament with a big fan base. The problem then is it comes subjective, you are judging how you expect your players to be playing, how are you judging if a player is putting in sincere, professional effort? The WTA can't really be subjective like this, they just have to accept whatever comes.

Also tbf do the WTA really make excuses for these players? They big them up or make them sound like they are doing better than they are, but it's in their interests to do that. It comes back to when your brought this up when Suarez Navarro beat Caro, it was still the biggest "upset" so to speak involving a name player that day (even if it wasn't the biggest actual surprise). So what are the WTA to really do? They want to put the focus on Suarez Navarro's performance, so it's not in their interests to say Caro was awful and gave up in the 2nd set is it. It's not like the losing players are going to be paying any attention to the WTA's summary articles either, they would probably prefer the match was just mentioned in 1 line at the bottom of the page with the result.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 12:54 AM   #2334
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey View Post
As far as Caro I like too see her work with Darren Cahill, I remember during RG last year her serve was way more flatten out do too her working with Darren Cahill so hopeful them work together again, I still like too see her & Sven train and work together as well.
I'd like to see her with a coach who believes she is a defensive player.
Too many changes, too much experimentation. They arent building Frankenstein, they had a #1 who was a very solid defensive player.
At least utilize the skills you already have, in some way.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 01:27 AM   #2335
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
^
The problem is how are you deciding this list exactly. You have named someone who is #16 in the world on this list. So are you judging on perceived level you think they should be at, playing to their best etc? Because most small tournaments would like Ivanovic world number 16 in their tournament with a big fan base. The problem then is it comes subjective, you are judging how you expect your players to be playing, how are you judging if a player is putting in sincere, professional effort? The WTA can't really be subjective like this, they just have to accept whatever comes.

Also tbf do the WTA really make excuses for these players? They big them up or make them sound like they are doing better than they are, but it's in their interests to do that. It comes back to when your brought this up when Suarez Navarro beat Caro, it was still the biggest "upset" so to speak involving a name player that day (even if it wasn't the biggest actual surprise). So what are the WTA to really do? They want to put the focus on Suarez Navarro's performance, so it's not in their interests to say Caro was awful and gave up in the 2nd set is it. It's not like the losing players are going to be paying any attention to the WTA's summary articles either, they would probably prefer the match was just mentioned in 1 line at the bottom of the page with the result.
You're absolutely right that it's subjective and only empirical with regard to a few facts,but that's a cop-out,really.Sports CONSTANTLY use subjective judgments: The strike zone in baseball;what does/doesn't constitute a foul in AF,basketball or ice hockey;and if a player is grunting too loudly or not in tennis.Why not have a small panel of experts/consultants to solve the problem?They could have 7 ex-players--a couple hard-asses,a couple softies,and three that are sort of middle-of-the-road.If a majority felt that a player was half-assing,then she would go on the Shit List.

To answer your question: YES,the WTA absolutely coddles Ana and Lisicki,playing along and pretending that every B.S. injury claim was life-threatening.I recall when Ana embarrassed the sport--not by LOSING to Vinci,but by putting forth a no-class effort at the Rogers Cup that cheated the ticket-paying fans out of their money.A hack even tossed Ana a softball after the match,and she said,unequivocally,that she was perfectly fine,health-wise.Three days later,as the heat built up,she and her scummy team suddenly "discovered" a foot fracture to justify the loss....and I'll bet you that nothing was said to the AI camp by the WTA.

Summarizing matches really wouldn't be too difficult at all;the WTA should just cut back on the absurd hyperbolic style.For example,they could simply mention that Julie Coin's highest-ranked scalp was at the USO back in 2008...without couching it to make it seem as if she had beaten peak Graf,Seles or Serena.You wouldn't have to insult Ana AT ALL;however,by having a more understated recount of the match,it'd be implicitly clear that THAT upset over a world #1 wasn't anywhere near like what happened when,say,Peter Doohan knocked off Boris Becker at Wimbledon...or when Lori McNeil upset Graf in a Wimby 1st-rounder(though McNeil was a better player than Coin,Graf was LIGHT YEARS better than AI,so it evens out)

To conclude,I don't think that the WTA really needs Ana....or any particular slutty piece of eye candy that much.Let's say that Bouchard suddenly became a young force in the WTA(just speculating here)...and then Ana retired and decided to join Vaidisova and Stepanek in an aimless,coke-snorting threesome.As Bouchard gained respect with her victories...and drew attention with her looks...would there be ANY big drop-off in revenue with Eugenie instead of AI??The Serb barely ever makes a QF anymore and is LONG GONE by the 2nd week of every Slam.Bouchard might even develop a bigger fanbase if she found consistent success,as opposed to a flukish 12-month period that was offset by a lifetime of fringe-Top 15 to fringe-Top 20 tennis...and there are countless other young beauties who could help with marketing...some of whom,like Vika and Masha,are multi-Slam champions.As with Serena's USO punishments,NO ONE should be treated as 'bigger than the sport' just because they draw in some casual,horny male fans.

P.S.: With Caroline's good physical fitness level,I don't think that she'd get on the Shit List unless she began visibly tanking matches on a regular basis(God forbid)
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Old May 1st, 2013, 04:25 AM   #2336
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

It's kind of funny to me that commentators like to say that Caro got to #1 by playing a heavy schedule when she currently plays about the same # of tournaments but is ranked a lot lower.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 04:56 AM   #2337
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I'd like to see her with a coach who believes she is a defensive player.
Too many changes, too much experimentation. They arent building Frankenstein, they had a #1 who was a very solid defensive player.
At least utilize the skills you already have, in some way.
Yes her Defensive game is her best game, but she still IMO need too change so thing up & develop a weapon, In order to hang & beat the like of Serena, Maria, Vika, Venus daily & too go on about and win a slam you need a weapon IMO she need Improve upon her serve
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Old May 1st, 2013, 06:45 AM   #2338
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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It's kind of funny to me that commentators like to say that Caro got to #1 by playing a heavy schedule when she currently plays about the same # of tournaments but is ranked a lot lower.
It's Illogic from piss-ants: As if a lousy player could get to #1 simply by playing a heavy schedule.In reality,such a routine wouldn't benefit ANYone unless she were no worse than a Top 10-caliber player...which is nothing to sneeze at.In fact,Caroline has more PREMIERS on her resume than only a handful of active players...all of whom are superb...so she couldn't have racked up too many titles against weak competition....It's just really basic common sense
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Old May 1st, 2013, 10:49 AM   #2339
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Yes her Defensive game is her best game, but she still IMO need too change so thing up & develop a weapon, In order to hang & beat the like of Serena, Maria, Vika, Venus daily & too go on about and win a slam you need a weapon IMO she need Improve upon her serve
Right now she lost 5 of her last 10 matches at majors. She probably isnt ever winning a major with an inconsistent forehand.
That Caroline is so willing to shift away from her successful style probably means she never wins a major. But at least go down your best tennis, not losing the last 5 games to Voegele then a 1-6 set to CSN.
There's no major titles in this level of play. Not even a discussion of winning a major.
She threw that away when she started slapping forehands all the over the place
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:44 AM   #2340
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Right now she lost 5 of her last 10 matches at majors. She probably isnt ever winning a major with an inconsistent forehand.
That Caroline is so willing to shift away from her successful style probably means she never wins a major. But at least go down your best tennis, not losing the last 5 games to Voegele then a 1-6 set to CSN.
There's no major titles in this level of play. Not even a discussion of winning a major.
She threw that away when she started slapping forehands all the over the place
Something has changed though. At the beginning of the year Caro was saying she was going back to what got her to number 1. Now she's saying she knows she needs to be more aggressive. So either she can't play like she use to anymore, doesn't want to play like that anymore, or her and her team think this is the way forward. You'd hope it is the last option, but given the number of changes that have gone on, I have my doubts.
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