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Old Apr 29th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #2311
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Blu€ View Post
She's doomed then , it's not that she's not capable, we all know she's not that bad on clay, in fact I'd say pretty decent when's she playing well in general. A couple of years ago she was giving Maria a tough time in the SF of Rome, it's just that her head isn't there which obviously affects her whole game, she has no raw power to rely on.

That said, I hope she surprises us, with some decent result, be it in Madrid, RG, Eastbourne or Wimbledon.
Don't be such a pessimist. All she needs to do is to win either Roland Garros or Wimbledon and she will have doubled her necessary point total.
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Old Apr 29th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #2312
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

There are probably none of you who agree with me,but I think that the WTA sub-culture can't help but play a part in impacting Caro's attitude(though I can't say to what degree,perhaps it's only a minor one),and DEFINITELY some of the lazy gals'.

For example,Peyton Manning had been one of the elite NFL QBs for years,even putting up some ridiculous stats that equaled HOF'ers.However,when he kept falling short of the Super Bowl,even commentators who liked him would shake their heads when his talented teams came up short prior to his finally winning a ring.Then you've got Tony Gonzalez who's the record-holder in most categories for the tight end position.He's a certain first-ballot Hall-of-Famer and usually does okay,individually,when he reaches the playoffs...but he was devastated when his #1-seeded team lost in the conference title game.

There was no Stacy Allaster or b.s. propaganda team to coddle Manning or Gonzalez after those disappointing defeats...and,despite their great skill and intense effort and work ethics,they haven't been treated as equals with the players who HAVE won multiple titles....I can't imagine how different the NFL might be if talented underachievers were pampered and treated as if they legends...as with the WTA where a joke and fraud is treated as if she were Steffi Graf's equal by virtue of their both being former #1s.If you're lauded as a queen and a mega-star of the sport even when you refuse to get a fitness coach....and get winded after the 1st set...and almost never do jack squat at Slams...then why should ANYone work hard?...especially if her face is pretty enough to be popular for promo use?
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Old Apr 29th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #2313
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
The first question that needs to be answered is, "How much does SHE - Caroline Wozniacki REALLY want it." She can hire the best coach on the planet, but if that all consuming desire to be as good as she can possibly be is no longer there it won't work. Rory, well, imagine that he was the boyfriend of someone like Sharapova. And give Sharapova even ten times the money she already has. It would have zero impact on her career as a tennis player, because she loves to compete. Loves the get the best out of herself at any cost. Caroline used to be like that. She needs to get it back. That above all else is the top priority as far as I am concerned.
"She can hire the best coach on the planet, but if that all consuming desire to be as good as she can possibly be is no longer there it won't work."

Besides skills, that is exactly what a coach needs to instill in her. If she doesn't want it, then walk away. It is a part of normal development for children to wean themselves away from their parents to become adults. Oftentimes, what facilitates that is having another adult male in a supportive, guiding, and protective role. If all has worked right as she has grown up, then she will always know she can come back to her father for emotional support and protection. But he doesn't need to be there night and day, everyday.
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Old Apr 29th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #2314
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
There was no Stacy Allaster or b.s. propaganda team to coddle Manning or Gonzalez after those disappointing defeats...and,despite their great skill and intense effort and work ethics,they haven't been treated as equals with the players who HAVE won multiple titles....I can't imagine how different the NFL might be if talented underachievers were pampered and treated as if they legends...as with the WTA where a joke and fraud is treated as if she were Steffi Graf's equal by virtue of their both being former #1s.If you're lauded as a queen and a mega-star of the sport even when you refuse to get a fitness coach....and get winded after the 1st set...and almost never do jack squat at Slams...then why should ANYone work hard?...especially if her face is pretty enough to be popular for promo use?
Because ultimately that want, that desire for success has to come from you. Someone telling you to get your ass in gear will only go so far. You look at Serena and Sharapova, both very rich, both suffered injuries that could have ended their careers, but both are very driven and determined to reach the top. That reaction to adversity has to come from you.
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Old Apr 29th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #2315
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Someone telling her to get her ass in gear is not coaching.
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Old Apr 29th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #2316
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Because ultimately that want, that desire for success has to come from you. Someone telling you to get your ass in gear will only go so far. You look at Serena and Sharapova, both very rich, both suffered injuries that could have ended their careers, but both are very driven and determined to reach the top. That reaction to adversity has to come from you.
I hoping she will get that drive & determined back in her one these year hopefully sooner than later, even if she don't get back too number 1 I like too see her win a slam, I know she have too improve on alot in her game too it too the next level as well but I hoping she will do that as well on these days.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 12:00 AM   #2317
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by neverforget View Post
"She can hire the best coach on the planet, but if that all consuming desire to be as good as she can possibly be is no longer there it won't work."

Besides skills, that is exactly what a coach needs to instill in her. If she doesn't want it, then walk away. It is a part of normal development for children to wean themselves away from their parents to become adults. Oftentimes, what facilitates that is having another adult male in a supportive, guiding, and protective role. If all has worked right as she has grown up, then she will always know she can come back to her father for emotional support and protection. But he doesn't need to be there night and day, everyday.
I think the desire needs to come from the players part. It's hard (especially for a stranger coach) to make someone to truly want something. Besides skills (both tactical and technical), the obvious thing the coach is meant to instill is confidence. There is a reasonable link between the two though, as confidence comes from believing in what you are doing, believing in your game.

I don't think the problem is Piotr being her father, the question is more is her current team good enough for purpose anymore. There certainly seems a lack of direction, and a lack of confidence from Caro in what she is doing. Even then, that desire has to come from Caroline. A change would only work if Caroline was willing to make it work.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #2318
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Because ultimately that want, that desire for success has to come from you. Someone telling you to get your ass in gear will only go so far. You look at Serena and Sharapova, both very rich, both suffered injuries that could have ended their careers, but both are very driven and determined to reach the top. That reaction to adversity has to come from you.
Yes,I agree with you on a fundamental level,but let's broaden our perspective here.You're correct if you're implying that the elite players are the most important,yet there are HUNDREDs of gals who compete in WTA and ITF events,at various skill levels,and it's no good if ONLY the elite act like they give a shit.Just take a look at Vinci,for example,and what a hard-working gal she seems to be.She'll probably never get the ultimate payoff with a singles Slam title...and she'll never get the endorsement deals that prettier gals get...but DAMN she fights to get the most out of her limited God-given talent,even withOUT the promise of a big reward.

And THAT's my point;even if someone lacks the killer instinct of a Ree or Sharapova,she can still be a professional as Vinci and so many other gals are...but I'm seeing a WTA that ENCOURAGES the half-assing that you get from Lisicki and Ana...and I'm quite sure that someone like Bouchard--and maybe other young beauties--has noticed how much the WTA will offer their B.S. propaganda to PRETEND that a shallow ditz is a profound,magnificent human being.You're right that the WTA can't instill that champions' drive that exists only in a rare few,but they can at least make it known that they won't pamper,or even PROMOTE,someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the product.I'm biased,of course,though I'd like to think that Caroline doesn't yet belong to the Worst Offenders list...and hopefully she never will
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 12:51 AM   #2319
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by neverforget View Post
"She can hire the best coach on the planet, but if that all consuming desire to be as good as she can possibly be is no longer there it won't work."

Besides skills, that is exactly what a coach needs to instill in her. If she doesn't want it, then walk away. It is a part of normal development for children to wean themselves away from their parents to become adults. Oftentimes, what facilitates that is having another adult male in a supportive, guiding, and protective role. If all has worked right as she has grown up, then she will always know she can come back to her father for emotional support and protection. But he doesn't need to be there night and day, everyday.
What makes this so difficult to understand is that she was there, at the top. She was #1 by 3000 points, in a slam final, a point from a 2nd slam final.
WTF are they doing? Her coaching has been terrible.
Lets say she lost it mentally and will never be top 5 again, never in a slam final again. Very possible, watching her results the last few weeks.
Its the way she dropped off without giving it a fight. She just vacated the premises of being a YEC player. Stopped being steady, stopped being careful with her forehand.

This whole situation is nuts. I cant think of another player who was at the top, changed her style, and disappeared from the top, besides Caroline. Jankovic didnt change her style, neither did Ivanovic
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 01:18 AM   #2320
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Yes,I agree with you on a fundamental level,but let's broaden our perspective here.You're correct if you're implying that the elite players are the most important,yet there are HUNDREDs of gals who compete in WTA and ITF events,at various skill levels,and it's no good if ONLY the elite act like they give a shit.Just take a look at Vinci,for example,and what a hard-working gal she seems to be.She'll probably never get the ultimate payoff with a singles Slam title...and she'll never get the endorsement deals that prettier gals get...but DAMN she fights to get the most out of her limited God-given talent,even withOUT the promise of a big reward.

And THAT's my point;even if someone lacks the killer instinct of a Ree or Sharapova,she can still be a professional as Vinci and so many other gals are...but I'm seeing a WTA that ENCOURAGES the half-assing that you get from Lisicki and Ana...and I'm quite sure that someone like Bouchard--and maybe other young beauties--has noticed how much the WTA will offer their B.S. propaganda to PRETEND that a shallow ditz is a profound,magnificent human being.You're right that the WTA can't instill that champions' drive that exists only in a rare few,but they can at least make it known that they won't pamper,or even PROMOTE,someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the product.I'm biased,of course,though I'd like to think that Caroline doesn't yet belong to the Worst Offenders list...and hopefully she never will
It's not particularly the WTA encouraging half-assing. They are just using the girls they think are best for promo's which tends to be based on looks, whether this is correct is debateable. But it's not like being a promo girl is the doom. Everytime I go on the WTA website for months I am greeted by a Maria Sharapova 40-love campaign. Sharapova is heavily involved in their promo stuff, yet she is still driven. The drive has to come from the player ultimately (I know my posts may sound like I am a Sharapova fan but I am not lol). Ultimately it's down to the player, do you want to be the best possible player you can be, or are you happy to cash in on your looks and fame. I don't actually agree with a lot of WTA's promotional work either, but I'm not sure how much of a factor it is in players downfalls either. If a player is half-assing that is their fault, not the WTA's.

The WTA take a very neutral stance on everything. They literally never mention anything remotely negative in their reports. For one I guess they don't want to upset any of the players. It's slightly different to a team sport whereby you are playing for a team in an organisation. In tennis you are playing under the organisation, so I can see why the WTA want to stay on all the players good sides.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #2321
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
It's not particularly the WTA encouraging half-assing. They are just using the girls they think are best for promo's which tends to be based on looks, whether this is correct is debateable. But it's not like being a promo girl is the doom. Everytime I go on the WTA website for months I am greeted by a Maria Sharapova 40-love campaign. Sharapova is heavily involved in their promo stuff, yet she is still driven. The drive has to come from the player ultimately (I know my posts may sound like I am a Sharapova fan but I am not lol). Ultimately it's down to the player, do you want to be the best possible player you can be, or are you happy to cash in on your looks and fame. I don't actually agree with a lot of WTA's promotional work either, but I'm not sure how much of a factor it is in players downfalls either. If a player is half-assing that is their fault, not the WTA's.

The WTA take a very neutral stance on everything. They literally never mention anything remotely negative in their reports. For one I guess they don't want to upset any of the players. It's slightly different to a team sport whereby you are playing for a team in an organisation. In tennis you are playing under the organisation, so I can see why the WTA want to stay on all the players good sides.
Well,we disagree to some extent because I say that they DO encourage the half-assing,implicitly,by promoting players who've made it clear that they don't give a shit but serve as eye candy.I'll agree that team sports are different in some ways,yet the promotional principles are the same: Terrell Owens was arguably the best WR in the NFL 8 years ago...or at least close to it.However,after he threw some teammates under the bus,unfairly,due to his hissy-fit over his contract dispute,he became an embarrassment to the league and quickly became less visible in promotions despite his super talent.

Again,you don't need to have the killer drive that Serena has,merely the integrity to remain professional,which doesn't require incredibly intense dedication,in and of itself..........and I'm SURE that the WTA has an impact on the players' mindsets.If you've been spoiled rotten your whole life by mommy and daddy...and then you're promised more of the same from your prospective boss...then you'll likely gravitate to that job.If the WTA made it clear that they wouldn't tolerate the B.S.,then the spoiled brats would seek out careers in modelling...or as trophy gfs...and quickly forget about tennis.You're right,of course,that the promos don't CHANGE the player;they were what they were well before their first endorsement offers
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 09:45 AM   #2322
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Someone telling her to get her ass in gear is not coaching.
I would argue that it depends on the outcome. If a coach tells her to "get her ass in gear" in a way that motivates her and causes her results to dramatically improve I would classify that as very successful coaching.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 10:03 AM   #2323
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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There are probably none of you who agree with me,but I think that the WTA sub-culture can't help but play a part in impacting Caro's attitude(though I can't say to what degree,perhaps it's only a minor one),and DEFINITELY some of the lazy gals'.

For example,Peyton Manning had been one of the elite NFL QBs for years,even putting up some ridiculous stats that equaled HOF'ers.However,when he kept falling short of the Super Bowl,even commentators who liked him would shake their heads when his talented teams came up short prior to his finally winning a ring.Then you've got Tony Gonzalez who's the record-holder in most categories for the tight end position.He's a certain first-ballot Hall-of-Famer and usually does okay,individually,when he reaches the playoffs...but he was devastated when his #1-seeded team lost in the conference title game.

There was no Stacy Allaster or b.s. propaganda team to coddle Manning or Gonzalez after those disappointing defeats...and,despite their great skill and intense effort and work ethics,they haven't been treated as equals with the players who HAVE won multiple titles....I can't imagine how different the NFL might be if talented underachievers were pampered and treated as if they legends...as with the WTA where a joke and fraud is treated as if she were Steffi Graf's equal by virtue of their both being former #1s.If you're lauded as a queen and a mega-star of the sport even when you refuse to get a fitness coach....and get winded after the 1st set...and almost never do jack squat at Slams...then why should ANYone work hard?...especially if her face is pretty enough to be popular for promo use?
Definitly right!!!!!!!!
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #2324
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Well,we disagree to some extent because I say that they DO encourage the half-assing,implicitly,by promoting players who've made it clear that they don't give a shit but serve as eye candy.I'll agree that team sports are different in some ways,yet the promotional principles are the same: Terrell Owens was arguably the best WR in the NFL 8 years ago...or at least close to it.However,after he threw some teammates under the bus,unfairly,due to his hissy-fit over his contract dispute,he became an embarrassment to the league and quickly became less visible in promotions despite his super talent.

Again,you don't need to have the killer drive that Serena has,merely the integrity to remain professional,which doesn't require incredibly intense dedication,in and of itself..........and I'm SURE that the WTA has an impact on the players' mindsets.If you've been spoiled rotten your whole life by mommy and daddy...and then you're promised more of the same from your prospective boss...then you'll likely gravitate to that job.If the WTA made it clear that they wouldn't tolerate the B.S.,then the spoiled brats would seek out careers in modelling...or as trophy gfs...and quickly forget about tennis.You're right,of course,that the promos don't CHANGE the player;they were what they were well before their first endorsement offers
The players you mention are in mind still professional. They may have lost that edge they once had, but they are still relatively professional how they go about themselves. I think the problem is how do they judge "the bs" that you talk about.

What is your actual suggestion on what they should do? Because on relative terms Ana and Caro are still a success. Ana is still ranked top 20, Caro is still ranked top 10.
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Old Apr 30th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #2325
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Btw it seems I have been misunderstood also. When I said "Someone telling you to get your ass in gear will only go so far." I was responding to bruce goose with regard to the WTA, not with regard to coaching.
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