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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 10:17 AM   #2176
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
She isn't losing because her fitness is bad though. I would argue she's one of the fittest players on tour. In fact it's probably her fitness that gets her through some of these 3 set matches she gets herself in because she is able to outlast most people. She loses because her game just isn't good enough. Players are fully aware of that fact, they know if you hang around long enough in a match with Caroline you will get chances.

Losing 2 and 4 to Muguruza even though we didn't see it just suggests she was thoroughly outplayed from start to finish. We saw a match with Pervak at the beginning of the year where when the match got tight it was the world number 103 stepping up to the plate and taking it to Caroline, ultimately punching through her. I saw a match with Voegele a couple of weeks ago where I didn't even think Voegele was playing great tennis, Caro started this match in total control, by the end Voegele was dictating play and having Caro run all over the court. Of course this would be fine if these occasions were rare, you could just chalk it down to a bad day at the office then. But these aren't one off anomalies, they're almost the expected outcome in tournaments now.
There was no broadcast or streaming of the match against Muguruza and no fan video of it either as far as I've been able to find out. To the best of my knowledge Arvanecaravan is the only one on tennisforum who actually saw this match.

Here's a description of the match from Arvanecaravan who was at the match:


Yes, it was that easy, and that legitimate. On a packed stadium 2 court, with almost everybody in the crowd supporting her, Caroline Wozniacki had no excuses today. She was simply outplayed by Garbiñe Muguruza, the consistently deep, penetrating and powerful groundstrokes of whom kept Wozniacki bottled up and frustrated on the baseline all day. One of Garbiñe's "issues" as of late has been a tendancy to drop serve at inorpportune times in a match, breaking her runs of momentum. That didn't happen today, save for one break at 2-1 in set 2 that got things momentarily back on serve until Garbi broke again at 4-4 for the clincher. She held serve beautifully, staying composed and poised in the big moments, fighting off the few break points she faced, and taking advantage of the ones she got, despite Wozniacki's tireless counterpunching. It was an incredibly mature performance for the stylishly hard and flat hitting 19 year old, one that will surely go a long way in her development to the elite rung of the WTA.

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=510306


The following is from some emails I had with Aravanecaravan:


Caro played very well defensively. She is always very tough from that standpoint, always very willing to dig in deep on returns and go to her knees if she has to in order to fight to get a ball back into play, and I give her a tremendous amount of credit for this, as it was not easy to return when Muguruza was teeing off with big groundstrokes, particularly on her returns of serve, and especially on the backhand side. She always made Garbiñe hit one more shot than Garbiñe probably wanted to hit.

Caro's father did come out to coach at least twice, once in each set, maybe a third time in between the sets. She seemed clearly frustrated at being overpowered, but Garbiñe was obviously playing well and having a really good day, so there wasn't much she could do about the winners. I was on the other side of the court and couldn't really see or hear what they were talking about other than the body language, but Caro didn't look happy.

She played better at the start of the second set and got a break up and held that for awhile, and looked like she might force a third set, but again, Garbiñe's returns were too much for her, especially late in the set, and eventually she started consolidating her serve and held on for the win.

I didn't think Caro played poorly. I think if people had actually been there and seen the match they would agree that Garbiñe played especially well that day. She just has a game well-suited for Miami.
...

I forgot a couple of other things you could mention about the match, regarding Caro's play. I was seated just about at midcourt, across the court from the umpire, so I had a good view of the rallies and could judge the dept of the groundstrokes, and consistency was Caro's strongpoint in the match, though Muguruza's shots were usually always deeper, within a couple of feet of the baseline, whereas Caro's were several feet shorter. Caro tried moving Muguruza around a lot in the match, especially after the first set when her Dad came out to advise her, and it may have worked for a game or two, but Muguruza adjusted pretty well. She moves better than people give her credit for, and being so tall with long legs and arms she covers the court very well. Also, as flat as she hits the ball, her shots were so low over the net with so little trajectory that it did not give Caro much time to react once Muguruza did make the returns--the balls were usually hit with a lot of pace and so flat that they were clean winners or forced Caro to hit into errors long on the other end.

And finally, one tactical error made by Caro in the match was that she tried looping the ball deep into the court, especially in set 2, to try to get more depth and force Muguruza off the baseline. She got Garbi off the baseline some, but hitting up to a tall player is not a great idea, as Caro found out. Whereas a shorter player would have had trouble returning these shots, Muguruza handled most of them with ease.
...

Yes, Caro's shots were for the most part landing pretty close to the service line and Garbiñe's were close to the baseline. Caro did a better job of moving Muguruza side to side, hitting nearer the lines, especially in the second set, but I don't think this bothered Muguruza a whole lot--she seems to cover the court pretty well, IMHO, and also hits well on the run, particularly on her backhand side. She hit a number of backhand winners in the match, both dtl and crosscourt, off of shots that Caro probably had thought she had put away.

I believe a better tactic in this particular match might have been to throw in a few drop shots, but I don't recall Caro trying many, if any.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 12:19 PM   #2177
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
There was no broadcast or streaming of the match against Muguruza ...

Yes, Caro's shots were for the most part landing pretty close to the service line and Garbiñe's were close to the baseline. ...
If you're not hitting with a lot of pace, you cant hit a lot of short balls. That doesnt work on the pro level.

Caroline used to never lose matches like this on hardcourt. If she lost, it was to Zvonareva, Clijsters, Li, Petkovic.
Now its Begu, Pervak, Wang, Muguruza.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 12:46 PM   #2178
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

This year in New Haven Errani, Kerber,Kvitova and Bartoli with these big name in the event is there a chance caroline can still play this event, I know there was a rule about how manty top 10 players can play at one event
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 01:08 PM   #2179
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Trey View Post
This year in New Haven Errani, Kerber,Kvitova and Bartoli with these big name in the event is there a chance caroline can still play this event, I know there was a rule about how manty top 10 players can play at one event
New Haven is allowed unlimited top 10 players because it is a week before a grand slam. It isn't down on her schedule but I think she will probably play it (she seems to like playing there).

With regard to the Muguruza match account. It just doesn't reflect that well on Caro. It just sounds another day of Caro unable to deal with a hot player outside the top 60. Muguruza while a hot prospect, is the sort of player that often provides a lot of UE, but it sounds like Muguruza just had Caro running all over the court (which seemed pretty obvious without even watching it). Caro's problems with depth and consistency on her strokes are obvious by now, whether she can do anything to repair it is yet to be seen.

It's also well documented Caro has lost a lot of the effectiveness in her backhand down the line (and she doesn't use it much anymore), so Caro doesn't really have a lot of change of direction in her ball to get these type of players off balance. This has been evident in numerous matches.

The drop shot tactic is pretty hard to implement if you are continually on the back foot (and not recommended), the account reads like Caro was pinned back from Muguruza's power and depth. You need to be on the front foot for the drop shot to be an effective tactic.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 02:44 PM   #2180
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
She isn't losing because her fitness is bad though. I would argue she's one of the fittest players on tour. In fact it's probably her fitness that gets her through some of these 3 set matches she gets herself in because she is able to outlast most people. She loses because her game just isn't good enough. Players are fully aware of that fact, they know if you hang around long enough in a match with Caroline you will get chances.
Caro is losing because Rory is secretly sneaking dizziness-inducing sedatives into her sports drinks before matches.Though Rory is very supportive,emotionally,whenever Caro loses,and gently,delicately consoles her,he's hoping that she'll soon get discouraged by being a Slamless #1 so that Caro will retire,marry him,and have lots of kids with him during her peak childbearing years.He figures that Caro is the sort of woman like Clijsters who will get great joy from motherhood......but please don't tell Caroline that I revealed her bf's scheme to you as I'd hate to open up any potential friction in her relationship
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 02:47 PM   #2181
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Tomorrow's OOP in Stuttgart: CC:12pm Wozniacki-Suarez Navarro, Barthel-Safarova, Kvitova-Beck. 6pm: Goerges-Flipkens 7:30pm Stosur-Jankovic
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 08:27 PM   #2182
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Just a little update from me: I haven't managed to catch Caro on the practice court until now so no photos yet. I'll be taking some shots of her match tomorrow but the CC really sucks for taking photos as the stands are rather far away from the court and elevated as well. Practice pics would turn out much nicer so fingers crossed

Unfortunately the tournament is unwilling to release the practice schedule so it's a matter of being there at the right time. For some reason Sharapova's always there when I check...I think that's faith mocking me...

Anyways, I have two little Caro-related anecdotes to share: I had the chance to go backstage at the tournament today (not going to elaborate on how that happened ) and as I was standing around, Caro and the golfer walked in (he IS tiny ). I didn't have the courage to get the camera out though as I didn't want to be that creepy guy...plus there were lots of securities around and they probably would have kicked my ass

Ran into her on site another time as well, she's always friendly with everyone, not too many people are bugging her (you should see the frenzy that breaks loose when Sharapova turns up..it's insane, old geezers behave like teenagers...).

Also, yesterday I was eavesdropping on a conversation between two Adidas suits (they sounded like higher ups from the tennis department.) It was interesting, they were talking about the Stella collection and the Adidas players etc.. Caro was mentioned too and damn, these guys are not happy with where she's heading. "Catastrophic" was one of the words used... apparently Adidas pretty much expects her to make the YEC this year...

Anyways, that's it from me, hopefully I'll have pics soon...I haven't forgotten about you guys
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 09:15 PM   #2183
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

^^
Thanks for the update. Interesting comment about the Adidas suits...
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 10:15 PM   #2184
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Caroline is practically a dream spokeswoman compared with her hopelessly slutty Adidas mate who's made ONE Slam QF...in FIVE YEARS(and was easily extinguished at THAT one);i.e.,less Slam QF appearances than Pironkova,who's never even won a tournament.Caroline might be struggling a bit,but at least she never carries herself like a joke both on AND off the court,so Adidas should focus on their bigger problem...or just stop their damned whining
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 10:31 PM   #2185
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
Just a little update from me: I haven't managed to catch Caro on the practice court until now so no photos yet. I'll be taking some shots of her match tomorrow but the CC really sucks for taking photos as the stands are rather far away from the court and elevated as well. Practice pics would turn out much nicer so fingers crossed

Unfortunately the tournament is unwilling to release the practice schedule so it's a matter of being there at the right time. For some reason Sharapova's always there when I check...I think that's faith mocking me...

Anyways, I have two little Caro-related anecdotes to share: I had the chance to go backstage at the tournament today (not going to elaborate on how that happened ) and as I was standing around, Caro and the golfer walked in (he IS tiny ). I didn't have the courage to get the camera out though as I didn't want to be that creepy guy...plus there were lots of securities around and they probably would have kicked my ass

Ran into her on site another time as well, she's always friendly with everyone, not too many people are bugging her (you should see the frenzy that breaks loose when Sharapova turns up..it's insane, old geezers behave like teenagers...).

Also, yesterday I was eavesdropping on a conversation between two Adidas suits (they sounded like higher ups from the tennis department.) It was interesting, they were talking about the Stella collection and the Adidas players etc.. Caro was mentioned too and damn, these guys are not happy with where she's heading. "Catastrophic" was one of the words used... apparently Adidas pretty much expects her to make the YEC this year...

Anyways, that's it from me, hopefully I'll have pics soon...I haven't forgotten about you guys
Darn the luck. I am the forums go-to creepy guy but here I am thousands of miles away!

I can completely understand the use of the word "catastrophic." Their expectations were probably unrealistic but surely they didn't think that she would fall as far as she did so quickly. At the start of 2012 she was number one. By the middle of the year she was pretty much a non-contender, at least at the "big" events.

Here's a tip. If you want to upstage the old geezer/teenager crowd try throwing your underpants at Maria.
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 11:25 PM   #2186
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

What do we make of this quote from Caro on whether she should have given her coaches more time :-
"In hindsight, I should have done that. On the other hand, it was a good experience for me. I need to take the high road, and I'm too good of a player to try out things. I just knew it wasn't right. It didn't feel right and it wasn't the right time. Mentally, I needed someone there and it's fine when they can push me a bit, but everyone needs different things and I know what I need."
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Old Apr 23rd, 2013, 11:36 PM   #2187
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Here's a tip. If you want to upstage the old geezer/teenager crowd try throwing your underpants at Maria.
Knowing Jimmie he would rather throw his shoes at Maria. But good to hear that Masha-mania has hit Stuttgart. Tennis in Germany isn't doing so badly after all when Maria is in town.
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Old Apr 24th, 2013, 04:16 AM   #2188
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Darn the luck. I am the forums go-to creepy guy but here I am thousands of miles away!

I can completely understand the use of the word "catastrophic." Their expectations were probably unrealistic but surely they didn't think that she would fall as far as she did so quickly. At the start of 2012 she was number one. By the middle of the year she was pretty much a non-contender, at least at the "big" events.

Here's a tip. If you want to upstage the old geezer/teenager crowd try throwing your underpants at Maria.
"Catastrophic" seems like quite an exaggeration to me assuming they actually did say that in relation to Caro and her results. An actual example of such a huge dropoff comes from Ana Ivanovic who at one point dropped out of the top 60.

Caro's results/play actually dropped off in the 2nd half of 2011 but because her point totals were so heavily skewed to the 1st half her ranking didn't suffer til she had to "defend" those 1st half points.

I don't care much about Caro's sponsorships. Caro's made enough money to be financially set for life already so losing sponsors doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
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Old Apr 24th, 2013, 04:34 AM   #2189
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
What do we make of this quote from Caro on whether she should have given her coaches more time :-
"In hindsight, I should have done that. On the other hand, it was a good experience for me. I need to take the high road, and I'm too good of a player to try out things. I just knew it wasn't right. It didn't feel right and it wasn't the right time. Mentally, I needed someone there and it's fine when they can push me a bit, but everyone needs different things and I know what I need."
I think intellectually Caro believes that she should've given her coaches more time but emotionally she needs to be in her comfort zone with Piotr. I find it a bit curious that she says "it wasn't the right time". Could it be that Caro thinks there may come a time when she should break away from Piotr?

What the heck does "too good of a player to try out things" mean? Caro's not that good of a player that she shouldn't be trying to add to her game. Even all time greats sometimes add to their games like Fed adding a drop shot several years ago.
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Last edited by Protoss : Apr 24th, 2013 at 07:01 AM.
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Old Apr 24th, 2013, 07:39 AM   #2190
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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What the heck does "too good of a player to try out things" mean? Caro's not that good of a player that she shouldn't be trying to add to her game. Even all time greats sometimes add to their games like Fed adding a drop shot several years ago.
Yeah,that part wasn't clear to ME,either.Maybe one of you could ask Caro at the next all-access for a clarification
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