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Old Apr 14th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #1
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Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Started 2011

players with decent data volume



Example: Ivanovic won 100 Points. 70 by winners and forced errors. Niculescu 58 of 100 by unforced errors




Example: match with 60 winners & 40 forced errors. Serena making 66 (ex: 40 winners & 26 forced errors by the opponent)




Caro,Aga & Sara with less than one unforced error per game.








Makarova & Tanasugarn

Average Match
Code:
            P	 W   UE	  FE     
Winner     75	22   25   17
Loser      59	17   32	  21
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #2
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

great job!
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 01:14 AM   #3
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Does this mean you only used the matches listed? IMO that is definitely not enough.

Still, the tables will be used by TF to confirm its branding of players as ballstrikers/bashers and conunterpunchers/pushers
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 04:47 AM   #4
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Interesting data for sure, but as ever, the whole analysis of winners and UEs (while very interesting and definitely CAN show match quality, etc) is flawed in the sense that it is a very crude measure of quality for many matches.

For an extreme example: two very hard-hitting, but very slow moving players on a decent day will likely hit a high number of winners past each other because both has good power and neither is a threat on defense so neither has to go for the line every shot. Reverse the extreme situation and pit two fast moving but limited power players against each other - both have to work like mad to win a point, each can only infrequently hit a clean winner, and each misses a fair bit more than usual because they are forced to really go for the line to get those winners. The match in the first example would likely have a MUCH cleaner W/UE ratio than the second encounter... but is it a better match if people hit winners on the third shot of a rally where there wasn't much of a contest, or if people have a great 20+ stroke rally that results in an UE because someone runs out of steam and goes for a little too much?

I mean... everyone likes to watch a glorious winner that comes at a brilliant time - but I think it's better not to get too hung up over the statistics when judging a match and instead to base it on how good the contest and the rallies were. Loads of amazing rallies end in an error, and loads of points ending in winners are lame ducks.

But all that said... I love the stats posted, very good work!
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 06:46 AM   #5
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Amazing how the best hardcourt player of the last two years is allegedly neither a top 20 offensive or defensive player. Kerber missing, too.

Good job still.
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 07:34 AM   #6
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Interesting stats, great job

I really appreciate how you've included the forced errors here. The usual focus on clean winners is misleading.
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #7
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

BMS is awesome. Old school player. Knows how to play tennis.
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 08:50 AM   #8
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

great job

Flavia stats among best winner ration per game and same for UE didn't expect this at all
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Old Apr 15th, 2013, 02:37 PM   #9
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Quote:
Originally Posted by fouc View Post
great job!
Much thanks to the OP. I had started doing this . . that lasted for only 1.25 majors.
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Old Apr 16th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #10
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Australian Open 2013


Code:
        Player A                Player B                              Points Played   Forced Points           Forced Points Player A  Forced Points Player B  

F	Victoria Azarenka	Na Li			  4-6 6-4 6-3		192   107	0.557		43	0.402		64	0.598
SF	Na Li			Maria Sharapova		  6-2 6-2		132   82	0.621		42	0.512		40	0.488
SF	Victoria Azarenka	Sloane Stephens		  6-1 6-4		136   63	0.463		37	0.587		26	0.413
QF	Victoria Azarenka	Svetlana Kuznetsova	  7-5 6-1		167   98	0.587		52	0.531		46	0.469
QF	Sloane Stephens		Serena Williams		  3-6 7-5 6-4		189   102	0.540		49	0.480		53	0.520
QF	Maria Sharapova		Ekaterina Makarova	  6-2 6-2		100   58	0.580		37	0.638		21	0.362
QF	Na Li			Agnieszka Radwanska	  7-5 6-3		136   75	0.551		53	0.707		22	0.293
R4	Svetlana Kuznetsova	Caroline Wozniacki	  6-2 2-6 7-5		191   128	0.670		77	0.602		51	0.398
R4	Victoria Azarenka	Elena Vesnina		  6-1 6-1		89    50	0.562		32	0.640		18	0.360
R4	Serena Williams		Maria Kirilenko		  6-2 6-0		80    59	0.738		39	0.661		20	0.339
R4	Sloane Stephens		Bojana Jovanovski	  6-1 3-6 7-5		173   81	0.468		45	0.556		36	0.444
R4	Maria Sharapova		Kirsten Flipkens	  6-1 6-0		101   63	0.624		46	0.730		17	0.270
R4	Na Li			Julia Goerges		  7-6(6) 6-1		118   80	0.678		46	0.575		34	0.425
R4	Agnieszka Radwanska	Ana Ivanovic		  6-2 6-4		117   79	0.675		34	0.430		45	0.570
R4	Ekaterina Makarova	Angelique Kerber	  7-5 6-4		138   87	0.630		53	0.609		34	0.391
R3	Sloane Stephens		Laura Robson		  7-5 6-3		156   77	0.494		37	0.481		40	0.519
R3	Maria Kirilenko		Yanina Wickmayer	  7-6(4) 6-3		145   94	0.648		49	0.521		45	0.479
R3	Bojana Jovanovski	Kimiko Date-Krumm	  6-2 7-6(3)		158   70	0.443		51	0.729		19	0.271
R3	Caroline Wozniacki	Lesya Tsurenko		  6-4 6-3		113   48	0.425		17	0.354		31	0.646
R3	Serena Williams		Ayumi Morita		  6-1 6-3		98    61	0.622		50	0.820		11	0.180
R3	Svetlana Kuznetsova	Carla Suarez Navarro	  6-2 4-6 6-3		193   98	0.508		63	0.643		35	0.357
R3	Elena Vesnina		Roberta Vinci		  4-6 7-6(4) 6-4	205   124	0.605		69	0.556		55	0.444
R3	Victoria Azarenka	Jamie Hampton		  6-4 4-6 6-2		187   112	0.599		53	0.473		59	0.527
R3	Agnieszka Radwanska	Heather Watson		  6-3 6-1		95    61	0.642		37	0.607		24	0.393
R3	Na Li			Sorana Cirstea		  6-4 6-1		104   53	0.510		37	0.698		16	0.302
R3	Maria Sharapova		Venus Williams		  6-1 6-3		102   57	0.559		36	0.632		21	0.368
R3	Kirsten Flipkens	Valeria Savinykh	  6-2 4-6 6-3		163   92	0.564		53	0.576		39	0.424
R3	Angelique Kerber	Madison Keys		  6-2 7-5		131   76	0.580		30	0.395		46	0.605
R3	Ekaterina Makarova	Marion Bartoli		  6-7(4) 6-3 6-4	210   135	0.643		70	0.519		65	0.481
R3	Julia Goerges		Jie Zheng		  6-3 1-6 7-5		167   87	0.521		62	0.713		25	0.287
R3	Ana Ivanovic		Jelena Jankovic		  7-5 6-3		125   85	0.680		48	0.565		37	0.435
R2	Carla Suarez Navarro	Yulia Putintseva	  1-6 7-6(5) 6-2	0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R2	Sloane Stephens		Kristina Mladenovic	  6-4 6-3		123   64	0.520		30	0.469		34	0.531
R2	Yanina Wickmayer	Jana Cepelova		  7-6(8) 7-5		178   109	0.612		64	0.587		45	0.413
R2	Kimiko Date-Krumm	Shahar Peer		  6-2 7-5		140   64	0.457		32	0.500		32	0.500
R2	Svetlana Kuznetsova	Su-Wei Hsieh		  6-2 6-1		92    62	0.674		43	0.694		19	0.306
R2	Laura Robson		Petra Kvitova		  2-6 6-3 11-9		259   167	0.645		77	0.461		90	0.539
R2	Lesya Tsurenko		Daria Gavrilova		  7-5 6-3		164   69	0.421		34	0.493		35	0.507
R2	Elena Vesnina		Varvara Lepchenko	  6-4 6-2		137   70	0.511		43	0.614		27	0.386
R2	Victoria Azarenka	Eleni Daniilidou	  6-1 6-0		76    43	0.566		32	0.744		11	0.256
R2	Ayumi Morita		Annika Beck		  6-2 6-0		115   74	0.643		50	0.676		24	0.324
R2	Jamie Hampton		Luksika Kumkhum		  6-1 6-2		95    45	0.474		32	0.711		13	0.289
R2	Maria Kirilenko		Shuai Peng		  7-5 6-2		135   92	0.681		48	0.522		44	0.478
R2	Bojana Jovanovski	Lucie Safarova		  7-5 7-5		160   88	0.550		43	0.489		45	0.511
R2	Roberta Vinci		Akgul Amanmuradova	  6-3 6-2		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R2	Serena Williams		Garbine Muguruza	  6-2 6-0		111   63	0.568		42	0.667		21	0.333
R2	Caroline Wozniacki	Donna Vekic		  6-1 6-4		100   53	0.530		27	0.509		26	0.491
R2	Madison Keys		Tamira Paszek		  6-2 6-1		87    46	0.529		37	0.804		9	0.196
R2	Heather Watson		Ksenia Pervak		  4-6 7-6(7) 6-2	212   90	0.425		53	0.589		37	0.411
R2	Valeria Savinykh	Dominika Cibulkova	  7-6(6) 6-4		171   81	0.474		31	0.383		50	0.617
R2	Venus Williams		Alize Cornet		  6-3 6-3		105   51	0.486		32	0.627		19	0.373
R2	Julia Goerges		Romina Oprandi		  6-3 6-2		109   62	0.569		42	0.677		20	0.323
R2	Agnieszka Radwanska	Irina-Camelia Begu	  6-3 6-3		114   62	0.544		28	0.452		34	0.548
R2	Jelena Jankovic		Maria Joao Koehler	  2-6 7-6(5) 6-2	200   96	0.480		48	0.500		48	0.500
R2	Marion Bartoli		Vesna Dolonc		  7-5 6-0		116   61	0.526		31	0.508		30	0.492
R2	Maria Sharapova		Misaki Doi		  6-0 6-0		63    34	0.540		28	0.824		6	0.176
R2	Jie Zheng		Samantha Stosur		  6-4 1-6 7-5		205   106	0.517		46	0.434		60	0.566
R2	Ekaterina Makarova	Stephanie Foretz Gacon	  6-3 6-3		107   59	0.551		31	0.525		28	0.475
R2	Ana Ivanovic		Yung-Jan Chan		  7-5 1-6 6-4		202   128	0.634		75	0.586		53	0.414
R2	Sorana Cirstea		Kristyna Pliskova	  1-6 6-3 6-2		0     0	-	0		-			0	-
R2	Kirsten Flipkens	Klara Zakopalova	  6-1 6-0		85    42	0.494		28	0.667		14	0.333
R2	Angelique Kerber	Lucie Hradecka		  6-3 6-1		116   57	0.491		30	0.526		27	0.474
R2	Na Li			Olga Govortsova		  6-2 7-5		119   67	0.563		47	0.701		20	0.299
R1	Sloane Stephens		Simona Halep		  6-1 6-1		80    50	0.625		38	0.760		12	0.240
R1	Daria Gavrilova		Lauren Davis		  6-3 6-7(2) 6-4	0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Garbine Muguruza	Magdalena Rybarikova	  4-6 6-1 14-12		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Laura Robson		Melanie Oudin		  6-2 6-3		118   64	0.542		43	0.672		21	0.328
R1	Luksika Kumkhum		Sofia Arvidsson		  7-6(5) 6-4		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Annika Beck		Yaroslava Shvedova	  6-2 6-7(7) 6-3	0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Jana Cepelova		Greta Arn		  6-2 6-2		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Kimiko Date-Krumm	Nadia Petrova		  6-2 6-0		99    43	0.434		24	0.558		19	0.442
R1	Svetlana Kuznetsova	Lourdes Dominguez-Lino	  6-2 6-1		98    58	0.592		44	0.759		14	0.241
R1	Varvara Lepchenko	Polona Hercog		  6-4 6-1		104   46	0.442		26	0.565		20	0.435
R1	Su-Wei Hsieh		Lara Arruabarrena	  7-6(5) 6-2		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Shuai Peng		Rebecca Marino		  6-3 6-0		93    59	0.634		38	0.644		21	0.356
R1	Maria Kirilenko		Vania King		  6-4 6-2		103   57	0.553		36	0.632		21	0.368
R1	Elena Vesnina		Caroline Garcia		  3-6 6-3 6-1		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Shahar Peer		Alexandra Panova	  6-4 1-6 6-3		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Carla Suarez Navarro	Sara Errani		  6-4 6-4		123   62	0.504		38	0.613		24	0.387
R1	Caroline Wozniacki	Sabine Lisicki		  2-6 6-3 6-3		161   96	0.596		28	0.292		68	0.708
R1	Yulia Putintseva	Christina McHale	  6-1 6-7(0) 6-2	0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Donna Vekic		Andrea Hlavackova	  6-1 6-2		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Serena Williams		Edina Gallovits		  6-0 6-0		70    40	0.571		33	0.825		7	0.175
R1	Lesya Tsurenko		Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova  7-5 3-6 7-5		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Kristina Mladenovic	Timea Babos		  6-3 4-6 11-9		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Bojana Jovanovski	Maria-Teresa Torro-Flor	  2-6 6-4 6-3		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Petra Kvitova		Francesca Schiavone	  6-4 2-6 6-2		168   103	0.613		63	0.612		40	0.388
R1	Jamie Hampton		Urszula Radwanska	  6-2 6-4		120   74	0.617		48	0.649		26	0.351
R1	Yanina Wickmayer	Jarmila Gajdosova	  6-1 7-5		116   59	0.509		26	0.441		33	0.559
R1	Ayumi Morita		Anna Tatishvili		  6-3 6-3		101   50	0.495		33	0.660		17	0.340
R1	Victoria Azarenka	Monica Niculescu	  6-1 6-4		108   55	0.509		34	0.618		21	0.382
R1	Lucie Safarova		Mirjana Lucic-Baroni	  7-6(4) 6-4		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Akgul Amanmuradova	Mathilde Johansson	  6-4 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Roberta Vinci		Silvia Soler-Espinosa	  6-3 7-5		0     0	        -		0	-		0	-
R1	Eleni Daniilidou	Karolina Pliskova	  7-5 5-7 6-4		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Angelique Kerber	Elina Svitolina		  6-2 6-4		126   71	0.563		38	0.535		33	0.465
R1	Ekaterina Makarova	Michelle Larcher De Brito 6-2 7-5		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Ana Ivanovic		Melinda Czink		  6-2 6-1		101   66	0.653		40	0.606		26	0.394
R1	Yung-Jan Chan		Daniela Hantuchova	  6-1 1-6 6-1		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Dominika Cibulkova	Ashleigh Barty		  3-6 6-0 6-1		160   95	0.594		52	0.547		43	0.453
R1	Tamira Paszek		Stefanie Voegele	  4-6 6-4 7-5		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Lucie Hradecka		Kiki Bertens		  6-2 7-6(8)		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Kirsten Flipkens	Nina Bratchikova	  6-4 6-3		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Samantha Stosur		Kai-Chen Chang		  7-6(3) 6-3		149   69	0.463		34	0.493		35	0.507
R1	Marion Bartoli		Anabel Medina Garrigues	  6-2 6-4		128   72	0.563		47	0.653		25	0.347
R1	Klara Zakopalova	Chanelle Scheepers	  6-1 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Jelena Jankovic		Johanna Larsson		  6-2 6-2		109   50	0.459		30	0.600		20	0.400
R1	Stephanie Foretz Gacon	Camila Giorgi		  6-2 6-3		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Madison Keys		Casey Dellacqua		  6-4 7-6(0)		148   85	0.574		50	0.588		35	0.412
R1	Heather Watson		Alexandra Cadantu	  2-6 6-3 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Alize Cornet		Marina Erakovic		  7-5 6-7(3) 10-8	0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Agnieszka Radwanska	Bojana Bobusic		  7-5 6-0		107   50	0.467		26	0.520		24	0.480
R1	Kristyna Pliskova	Sacha Jones		  6-3 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Julia Goerges		Vera Dushevina		  7-5 2-6 6-4		183   116	0.634		65	0.560		51	0.440
R1	Sorana Cirstea		Coco Vandeweghe		  6-4 6-2		104   53	0.510		27	0.509		26	0.491
R1	Olga Govortsova		Pauline Parmentier	  2-6 6-3 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Romina Oprandi		Tsvetana Pironkova	  4-6 7-5 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Venus Williams		Galina Voskoboeva	  6-1 6-0		93    63	0.677		39	0.619		24	0.381
R1	Na Li			Sesil Karatantcheva	  6-1 6-3		118   68	0.576		51	0.750		17	0.250
R1	Maria Sharapova		Olga Puchkova		  6-0 6-0		77    47	0.610		35	0.745		12	0.255
R1	Valeria Savinykh	Mandy Minella		  7-6(4) 6-1		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Irina-Camelia Begu	Arantxa Rus		  6-4 6-2		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Jie Zheng		Yuxuan Zhang		  6-1 3-6 6-4		149   64	0.430		34	0.531		30	0.469
R1	Ksenia Pervak		Mona Barthel		  7-5 2-6 6-4		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
R1	Vesna Dolonc		Olivia Rogowska		  5-7 7-5 8-6		250   120	0.480		49	0.408		71	0.592
R1	Misaki Doi		Petra Martic		  6-3 6-4		118   61	0.517		35	0.574		26	0.426
R1	Maria Joao Koehler	Karin Knapp		  3-6 6-3 6-3		0     0 	-		0	-		0	-
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Old Apr 16th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #11
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

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Originally Posted by Patrick345 View Post
Amazing how the best hardcourt player of the last two years is allegedly neither a top 20 offensive or defensive player. Kerber missing, too.

Good job still.
What are you smoking? I think you missed the no. 1 player in "Active" category.
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Old Apr 16th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #12
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

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Originally Posted by Vespertine69 View Post
Interesting data for sure, but as ever, the whole analysis of winners and UEs (while very interesting and definitely CAN show match quality, etc) is flawed in the sense that it is a very crude measure of quality for many matches.

For an extreme example: two very hard-hitting, but very slow moving players on a decent day will likely hit a high number of winners past each other because both has good power and neither is a threat on defense so neither has to go for the line every shot. Reverse the extreme situation and pit two fast moving but limited power players against each other - both have to work like mad to win a point, each can only infrequently hit a clean winner, and each misses a fair bit more than usual because they are forced to really go for the line to get those winners. The match in the first example would likely have a MUCH cleaner W/UE ratio than the second encounter... but is it a better match if people hit winners on the third shot of a rally where there wasn't much of a contest, or if people have a great 20+ stroke rally that results in an UE because someone runs out of steam and goes for a little too much?

I mean... everyone likes to watch a glorious winner that comes at a brilliant time - but I think it's better not to get too hung up over the statistics when judging a match and instead to base it on how good the contest and the rallies were. Loads of amazing rallies end in an error, and loads of points ending in winners are lame ducks.

But all that said... I love the stats posted, very good work!
Hmmm . . I see your point but to some degree your analysis of the analysis is also flawed. What you said hold true if one is looking at only one or two metrics (e.g. W and UE) but if one is looking at all three metrics it will give a reasonably accurate portrait. Your examples don't offer anything to refute that. It's not about being "better" match but about what the overall flow of play was. To me, the metrics work best when viewed by set or - for a really accurate picture - by game. I do agree that the W/UE ratio is an arbitrary and in often meaningless stat.
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Old Apr 16th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #13
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Re: Winners - Errors - On Hard Court - Based On Grand Slams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick345 View Post
Amazing how the best hardcourt player of the last two years is allegedly neither a top 20 offensive or defensive player. Kerber missing, too.

Good job still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adner View Post
What are you smoking? I think you missed the no. 1 player in "Active" category.
? The No. 1 player in the "active" category is Serena. Patrick was talking about the best player the past two years on hardcourt though. That's not Serena.
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