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Old Jul 17th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #61
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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I would be highly sceptical the USTA would have forced her to miss RG. As you say why wouldn't the other players have been too?

I believe I asked Nancy about this once and she was unaware of any such situation.

Although it is a fact that the LTA tried to prevent Ann Jones competing there in 1966 and only a threat by her to defy them forced them to cave in (in essence come to their senses). They wanted her to play minor English grass events to get practise for the Wightman Cup.

It seems hard to believe today that players once had to get permission from their Association to play abroad.

You could though almost say the USTA forced the players to miss the German Championships since the criteria for obtaining an American ranking almost made it obligatory to play the Eastern Grass Court event leading up to Forest Hills which is why few if any Americans played in Hamburg.
My jaw is dropping at Ann not winning the French in 1966 due to the LTA!
Good thing she stuck to her guns. I bet many in her position would have caved.
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Old Jul 18th, 2010, 04:11 AM   #62
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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Pretty amazing stuff! So she went from playing Fed Cup in Italy, to California on hard courts, to Tulsa on clay, and back to Europe on grass.

It puts a whole new spin on 1966. Of course it doesn't change the fact that she dodged the French in 1966 unless the USTA forced her to go back to the US. and I highly doubt that was the case. Nancy Richey, Carole Graebner, and Julie Heldman were aslo in Europe during or before the Fed Cup, and none of them went home.
I don't know about Graebner and Heldman, but Richey did go back to the United States. She played in the U.S. Hard Court Championships in La Jolla. She was the runner-up in doubles, teaming with Dorothy Bundy Cheney.
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Old Jul 18th, 2010, 01:42 PM   #63
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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Hi AustinRunner-great work on Billie Jean's record, and there is no doubt I was 100% wrong when it comes to her her head to heads on clay vs some top players.

I stand by my statement that King was weak on clay though. Relatively speaking she was much more dangerous on faster surfaces, just as Evert was stronger on clay.
I think it boils down to the fact that there were different qualities to European and American clay.

Nancy has said that the American clay courts were quite a bit faster than the "red stuff".

It would look as if BJ's victories on clay came mostly in America? The Federation Cup in Berlin in 1967 was played on a strange pebbled surface unlike other European clay courts. Nancy won when they played at RG on the slower surface. Aside from Nancy if you look at the players BJ lost to in her first years at RG - van Zyl, Bowrey and Neissen, she would have expected to beat them on any other surface (the clay court Bowrey post-1965 was not as good a player as before).

She probably just didn't like the slower European courts but being the determined lady she is she eventually conquered it. RG 1972 may not have been the strongest field ever but nor was it by any means the weakest either and beating Masthoff and then the defending champion Goolagong in the final is about as tough as it comes.

Although the German field wasn't the strongest again she had to overcome Masthoff to win it.

Looking at the h2hs there seems neither rhyme nor reason to them - the surface doesn't seem to have been of great significance. Apart from a couple of players she dominated most of her rivals on all of them.
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Old Jul 18th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #64
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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Shows how great Turner was on clay before 66. Considering she won 2 French titles and almost pipped Margaret in a 3rd during her hot run is very impressive.

Had they have had 2 grass court slams, and either two on clay (or one on clay and one on hardcourt) Lesley could have made an even bigger mark on the world stage. Turner, Jones and Richey more than any other players in history were severely disadvantaged by the 3 grasscourt slams of the pre-74 era. Of course they still had Court, King and Bueno to contend with, but surely could have added to their own legacy had there been more of a balance.
Unless the second non-grass one was played on slow clay I'm not sure it would have made a lot of difference - maybe. Margaret would have won a fair number of them.

Just as a matter of interest there was some confusion as to why Lesley Turner dropped out for a long period in 1966.

I came across this in British Lawn Tennis April 1966:

LESLEY TURNER suffered a nervous breakdown on her return to Australia after her visit to New Zealand for tournaments. She will be out of the game for about six months so it seems unlikely she will be able to defend her French singles title.
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Old Jul 18th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #65
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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Unless the second non-grass one was played on slow clay I'm not sure it would have made a lot of difference - maybe. Margaret would have won a fair number of them.

Just as a matter of interest there was some confusion as to why Lesley Turner dropped out for a long period in 1966.

I came across this in British Lawn Tennis April 1966:

LESLEY TURNER suffered a nervous breakdown on her return to Australia after her visit to New Zealand for tournaments. She will be out of the game for about six months so it seems unlikely she will be able to defend her French singles title.
Yes I know Court would have been tough for those girls to beat on clay or hardcourt, but at least they would have been a better shot at making it to the later stages at least. Grass was definately not their surface although Jones changed her game up enough to become a real force on it in the late 60s.

Lesley did steer away from this question when I put it to her about 66. She just said something along the lines that she felt like a break from the game. So it's interesting that she reportedly had a breakdown. I have heard similar stories before but I cannot confirm anything. But obviously she wasn't the same player again.
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Old Jul 19th, 2010, 02:10 AM   #66
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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Originally Posted by chris whiteside View Post
Just as a matter of interest there was some confusion as to why Lesley Turner dropped out for a long period in 1966.

I came across this in British Lawn Tennis April 1966:

LESLEY TURNER suffered a nervous breakdown on her return to Australia after her visit to New Zealand for tournaments. She will be out of the game for about six months so it seems unlikely she will be able to defend her French singles title.
Have a look at this February 1966 article in The Age newspaper (Melbourne):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y+turner&hl=en
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Old Jul 19th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #67
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Re: Margaret Court's record

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Originally Posted by austinrunner View Post
Have a look at this February 1966 article in The Age newspaper (Melbourne):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...y+turner&hl=en
Well there you have it. She did suffer some nervous breakdown of sorts. You wonder what contributed to it ... shame as her previous 3 or 4 seasons had cemented her place in the top few in the world despite the fact she was a clay court specialist.
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Old Mar 28th, 2013, 02:10 AM   #68
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Re: Margaret Court's record

In two of Court's Aussie titles she beat Maria Bueno. One time when Bueno was #1, the other time Maria was in the top 3. She also beat BJK in two different Aussie tournaments. Once in a final and once in a semi. She also beat Goolagon twice when Evonne was a top player. Other Aussie players, especially Turner, were top players in the 60's. So in at least 6 of her Aussie wins, Margreat beat either the #1,2 or third ranked player in the world. She played in a very competitive era, much more so than Graf did in her best years after the Seles stabbing. In the end it all equals out, as Court, King, Graf, Evert and Navratilova are supreme all time greats of equal stature-IMHO
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