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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 08:29 PM   #1321
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

All these crappy results just minimize what she's done. She's going to spend the rest of her career on non-televised courts losing to noncontenders unless she gets her head right.
Early round disasters to Pervak, Wang, Mug. Twice to Sveta. All on hardcourt.
On clay and grass she's even more beatable, and everyone on the tour knows it
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 08:35 PM   #1322
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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While I see your point. I am not sure I really go along with it. For me really she should have had enough wake up calls already, when you go from number 1 to the bottom end of the top 10 in such a short space of time overtaken by your main rivals (from your age group) that really should be all the motivation you need. Of course being in the top 10 in any professional sport is a great achievement, but to just be accepting of that when you were number 1 a couple of years prior would be poor.

The main fear I would have is if you drop out of the top 10, you just appear to be on a downward spiral of gradual decline. I can't think of any player that has ever returned to their previous heights from such gradual decline. The longer she keeps losing ground on her rivals, the less and less likely it becomes that she will ever catch up with them imo.
I agree with you. I used to be a fan of JJ. She stayed in the top 10 a long long time. Once she eventually did drop out the top 10 - she just fell further. In so many ways I fear Caro is mirroring JJ's progress and decline.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 08:52 PM   #1323
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Still believe she better accept coaching from a real coach, not her father, or she is going to get worse and worse. If she won't accept a coach, then she is done.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 08:57 PM   #1324
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I think that if she doesn't do something significant soon that it's over in terms of getting back to or near to the top. If any other player was in a similar situation or had the career trajectory of Caroline we would have said that about her awhile back already I think. But since we're Caro fans we continue to give her some slack and keep hoping that maybe next week, or maybe next month, or maybe.... Let's face it, this had been going on for more than one and a half years now.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 08:59 PM   #1325
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
I agree with you. I used to be a fan of JJ. She stayed in the top 10 a long long time. Once she eventually did drop out the top 10 - she just fell further. In so many ways I fear Caro is mirroring JJ's progress and decline.
I've bee saying that for a while too. Very much like Jankovic. She just doesnt want to fully commit to her career.
How can she keep coming out and starting down 1-5? She has to be mentally involved in these matches. Cant keep giving the first set away
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:04 PM   #1326
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Very disappointed in the result today
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:20 PM   #1327
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I have heard that argument and it is valid but I just don't think that it does her any good to float around the nine-eleven spot in the rankings. She can keep saying to herself "at least I am still in the top ten" and I don't think that is helping her. She has had more than enough wake up calls (I thought that Cincinnati and Toronto, 2011 would have been enough) but we haven't seen any signs of her turning her game around, the only thing left is to drop out of the top ten for an extended period. It might end up hurting her but is she really much better off the way things have been the last two years?
I'm not actually convinced she really believes that stuff she says though and that's the reason she's fallen. To me it's a mask she puts up when she is constantly asked about her fall and another loss. She's got to say something and top ten is something to be proud of but of course she completely dodges the question that she's fallen to being barely in the top ten. But if she keeps saying she is not happy with how she is playing - shell get asked what she is doing about it. And come the next loss she'll then be asked again and what is she doing about it etc. Some things are best just left between coach and player.

However, I do think she has lost that complete raw hunger above all else "to prove the doubters wrong" that I think she once had. I'm sure she's hungry but not to the extent she once was. Having Rory for a start must soften the blow a bit when she has a defeat like today. I think today's defeat will hurt her but that when she was on the up a few years ago - the defeat would have hurt her more. I don't think dropping out the top 10 would change any of that.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:27 PM   #1328
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

With Caro we don't really know how she feels tbh. She is very good (maybe too good) at putting a positive PR spin on everything, but it's hard to believe she really believes some of the stuff she says (and if she does it's even more worrying). As much as I would like her to get a new coach, I don't really see it coming anytime soon. The problem is she probably thinks she already tried this last year and it didn't really work. But really the current setup isn't working either, and hasn't been for a long time.

It's basically a question of is she really happy with the way her career is going right now, she gives off the impression that she is in interviews. But can we really believe this, there's got to be some degree of concern there. There has to come a point when you stop accepting mediocrity and make some big decisions.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:31 PM   #1329
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Here's a breakdown of the percentage of hard court tournaments from 2009-2013 (today) where Caro lost to someone ranked outside the top 15 who didn't end the year ranked inside the top 15. At this point, I don't think any of the player outside the top 15 that Caro's lost to this year will end the year ranked inside the top 15.

I didn't count the YECs in 2009-2011 as there was no chance to lose to someone ranked outside the top 15. I also didn't count Luxembourg in 2009 as Caro was winning that match when she retirement. I counted Caro's loss to Kim in the 2009 US Open final as a loss to a top 15 player even though Kim ended the year ranked #18.


2013 5/8 (63%)
2012 4/16 (25%)
2011 5/13 (38%)
2010 1/12 (8%)
2009 7/15 (47%)
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:33 PM   #1330
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
With Caro we don't really know how she feels tbh. She is very good (maybe too good) at putting a positive PR spin on everything, but it's hard to believe she really believes some of the stuff she says (and if she does it's even more worrying). As much as I would like her to get a new coach, I don't really see it coming anytime soon. The problem is she probably thinks she already tried this last year and it didn't really work. But really the current setup isn't working either, and hasn't been for a long time.

It's basically a question of is she really happy with the way her career is going right now, she gives off the impression that she is in interviews. But can we really believe this, there's got to be some degree of concern there. There has to come a point when you stop accepting mediocrity and make some big decisions.
I'm 99.9% sure that Caro is just putting on an act and that she's not happy with the way things are going. But terjw is probably right that she's not as devastated about it as she would have been two years ago.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:50 PM   #1331
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

If she was really bothered by this fall, you would think that she would start fast, maybe not be good enough, but she'd come out ready to play. All these slow starts make it look like she's not mentally into it.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:52 PM   #1332
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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I'm 99.9% sure that Caro is just putting on an act and that she's not happy with the way things are going. But terjw is probably right that she's not as devastated about it as she would have been two years ago.
Yes she'd hardly be human if something inside doesn't hurt. Even though she would never boast such claims, she will have been fully aware that she was ahead of her peers in 2011, she must have felt she was the most likely to kick on. If the success of her peers isn't enough to stoke a fire inside I don't know what is. You can see in part she still has some desire, her reaction after beating Kerber last week told you that. The problem I see is she still seems to lack a clear direction of what to do to solve her problems. Now her fight vs Kerber was admirable, but game wise she still doesn't seem set on what direction she wants to take. I fear that she thinks she tried 2 coaches last year, they didn't work and that is the end of that, no more experimenting. But there is no quick fix to her problems, whatever she does it's not like she will be back to the top in 2 months time.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 09:59 PM   #1333
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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If she was really bothered by this fall, you would think that she would start fast, maybe not be good enough, but she'd come out ready to play. All these slow starts make it look like she's not mentally into it.
Part of this though is Caro doesn't really have the style of game that starts fast often. She goes in majority of matches expecting to beat her opponent I imagine. But as you've said before most players probably relish playing Caro nowadays, they come in thinking they have a chance. They are going to come out from the start trying to take it to Caro, if it doesn't work they may get down hearted, but initially they will go for it. There's no mental hold over her opponents anymore. Caro isn't the sort of player whose going to come out and blast her opponent off the court in the first 3 games.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 10:11 PM   #1334
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
If she was really bothered by this fall, you would think that she would start fast, maybe not be good enough, but she'd come out ready to play. All these slow starts make it look like she's not mentally into it.
That was sort of the feeling that I got from most of her matches in Doha and Dubai. Right from the start it seemed like she was very energetic and focused. Sadly that mentality seems to have disappeared.

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Part of this though is Caro doesn't really have the style of game that starts fast often. She goes in majority of matches expecting to beat her opponent I imagine. But as you've said before most players probably relish playing Caro nowadays, they come in thinking they have a chance. They are going to come out from the start trying to take it to Caro, if it doesn't work they may get down hearted, but initially they will go for it. There's no mental hold over her opponents anymore. Caro isn't the sort of player whose going to come out and blast her opponent off the court in the first 3 games.
That's true as far as the type of game she plays, she rarely hits players off the court, but there used to be plenty of matches, particularly in the early rounds, where she won very comfortably and quickly. 6-2, 6-1 and 6-0 were scores we often saw in the early rounds. This is a point I am stealing from terjw as he mentions it now and again. She really used to dominate her first couple of opponents but now she struggles to even win sets.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 10:21 PM   #1335
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
That's true as far as the type of game she plays, she rarely hits players off the court, but there used to be plenty of matches, particularly in the early rounds, where she won very comfortably and quickly. 6-2, 6-1 and 6-0 were scores we often saw in the early rounds. This is a point I am stealing from terjw as he mentions it now and again. She really used to dominate her first couple of opponents but now she struggles to even win sets.
This is a thing both of us have mentioned so I don't think it was stealing anything from me. The question I keep asking myself is how did she used to do that and have those straightforward easy wins against lower ranked players when she can't that now?
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