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Old Mar 17th, 2013, 09:11 AM   #16
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Re: Barthel's serve - discuss

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Originally Posted by HowardH View Post
Her serve is strong. She favours slice serves in general, and sometimes she accidentally gets a bit of slice which she doesn't intend to have. It can appear on her second serve when she tries to go the backhand but slices it towards the centre of the box, but it also appears on her first serve when she tries to go up the T on the deuce side. Overall her serve is quite nice though.
I think I have a clue what you mean. But is it accidentally ? How can that happen, and is it an advantage or an disadvantage in your opinion ?
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Old Mar 17th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #17
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Re: Barthel's serve - discuss

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Originally Posted by joy division View Post
I think I have a clue what you mean. But is it accidentally ? How can that happen, and is it an advantage or an disadvantage in your opinion ?
It's accidental, or rather, she cannot fully control when it happens. This is a very common problem for people with the kick serve, it often comes out with slice instead of straight kick or twist especially on the deuce side. It's quite tricky to hit up the back of the ball on the serve without coming around the right hand side of the ball, and whenever you come around that right hand side it slices or becomes slice-topspin. Her toss for the second serve tends to be a bit too far to the right for a kick serve, but on the ad side she can sometimes get away with it and still hit a good kick serve out wide. She also tends to stand a bit too upright and she doesn't really arch her back to the left enough on the kick serve (although in reality a lot of that arch is actually created by angling the entire back to the left, not so much by actually bending at the vertebrae, look at Federer's back position on the second serve, Stosur as well).

It's a slight disadvantage because it makes the placement of her second serve a bit questionable at times, often centrally placed or in the forehand side. It becomes possible for an aggressive returner to run around her second serve or predict it more easily. She cannot fully rely on her kick serve to find the backhand corner under pressure on the deuce side in particular, but this is less of an issue in the women's game where the forehands are not so big normally. It also makes her a bit more likely to doublefault, because on the second serve some of the spin will become slice instead and reduce the amount of topspin she gets.

A lot of female players can't hit a true kick serve anyway. So at this stage it isn't that big a deal, so long as it doesn't lead to too many double faults. It also shouldn't be much of an issue against left handers, because you need that slice/topspin mixture on your second serve against lefties, to get your second serve to their backhand. Also her natural slice is pretty useful on the first serve out wide.

When she gets it right her kick serve on the ad side is quite nice, but I can't remember her hitting a real kick serve on the deuce side. I think she should be able to do it though.

For an example of this tendency causing her problems, see this service game here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiNf3l2lJXA&t=40m0s

Last edited by HowardH : Mar 17th, 2013 at 08:09 PM.
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Old Mar 18th, 2013, 01:46 AM   #18
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Re: Barthel's serve - discuss

Thanks for the little tennis lesson, Howard and for working out the details of her weakness on serve.
I doubt that she will manage to produce such a proper kick serve as Federer and Stosur can do.
But she`s working on it and her serve is still very efficient and one of her main weapons.
Compared to the last season imo she was putting more pace but also more risk on the first serve. Looking at the pretty high first service percentages in this season it has become safer.
I could see that in a line with a plan to level up her game and make it more reliable and solide overall.

Last edited by joy division : Mar 18th, 2013 at 02:02 AM.
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Old Mar 18th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #19
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Re: Barthel's serve - discuss

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Originally Posted by pov View Post
I've been posting in Barthel threads before you jumped on the bandwagon.
No, he isn't a bandwagoner at all. I know him very well.

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