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View Poll Results: New pope name?

John 0 0%
Benedict 0 0%
Gregory 2 5.56%
Nicholas 2 5.56%
Innocent 7 19.44%
Leo 3 8.33%
Pius 4 11.11%
Boniface 3 8.33%
Eugene 0 0%
Other 18 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Mar 15th, 2013, 10:58 PM   #196
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by wild.river View Post
are you implying chicken preferences aren't important life questions

it was derailed. someone should start a God vs. Religion vs. Science thread though
There was quite a bit of foolishness going on near the end of that thread. But it raises a question.

If there is a thread that people don't like, is it only necessary to get a few people to collude in derailing it to get it closed?

I would think that it would be just as easy to delete the offending comments (the ones where people are calling each other vile names) as it is to close a thread. In that case people who are having a serious discussion (as serious as can be expected in cyberspace) can continue.

But then again, I am not a mod and am not privy to what they can and can't do so I'm sure that they have their reasons for not taking that approach.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #197
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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It does make one wonder, doesn't it. The father of lies is busy. Stay lubed.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #198
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by HippityHop View Post
There was quite a bit of foolishness going on near the end of that thread. But it raises a question.

If there is a thread that people don't like, is it only necessary to get a few people to collude in derailing it to get it closed?

I would think that it would be just as easy to delete the offending comments (the ones where people are calling each other vile names) as it is to close a thread. In that case people who are having a serious discussion (as serious as can be expected in cyberspace) can continue.

But then again, I am not a mod and am not privy to what they can and can't do so I'm sure that they have their reasons for not taking that approach.
Sometimes they delete the offending post(s), sometimes they just close the thread, appears to be no rhythm or reason to it. That thread was far less derailed than many that they have let continue, so either it was the content, or, as I suspect, it depends who complains and what they want.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #199
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by HippityHop View Post

This is a good point and it raises the question of why people want to change the Catholic Church rather than find a Church that caters to their particular needs/wants.
Ah, its all about socialization. One grows up in a family that practices "X religion" (or even just marries into one) they start parroting the "we're X" stuff; especially in "mono-religious" countries, cities, even neighbourhoods. Doesn't mean they actually believe the dogma, hence terms like "Cafeteria Catholics".

The religions accept this for 3 reasons (in no particular order here).

1) Getting to say they "speak for" however many millions, even 1B plus.
2) The revenue from weddings, funerals, baptisms, confirmations, Bar/Bat Mitzvah's....
3) The hope that in another generation or two, the kids or grandkids will redisover "their" religion.

BTW, I totally second what others have posted ITT, that the "Jesus thread" should not be closed. (Err, "God knows" I had some excellent metaphysical posts there).
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 01:59 AM   #200
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Ah, its all about socialization. One grows up in a family that practices "X religion" (or even just marries into one) they start parroting the "we're X" stuff; especially in "mono-religious" countries, cities, even neighbourhoods. Doesn't mean they actually believe the dogma, hence terms like "Cafeteria Catholics".

The religions accept this for 3 reasons (in no particular order here).

1) Getting to say they "speak for" however many millions, even 1B plus.
2) The revenue from weddings, funerals, baptisms, confirmations, Bar/Bat Mitzvah's....
3) The hope that in another generation or two, the kids or grandkids will redisover "their" religion.

BTW, I totally second what others have posted ITT, that the "Jesus thread" should not be closed. (Err, "God knows" I had some excellent metaphysical posts there).
Dude, you're the one who runs around getting posts deleted, threads closed, and people suspended. You're really one to talk.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #201
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Helen Lawson View Post
They went the wrong way. Gay-hating, anti-woman far-right kook. It's really hard to believe anyone is a practicing Catholic anymore.
Truth.

I think it must be indoctrination.

I don't know how anyone who is Gay can follow a religion that wants them dead.

Not to mention the fact that it does not believe in contraception.

So babies and AIDS for everyone.

Of course, most hypocritical Catholics laud their new Pope but don't actually follow the rules of their religion, no that's all thrown out the window.

I'm sure once numbers dwindle enough and that coin ain't coming in the Catholic Church will revise the bible to include everyone wiling to make a donation.

Book it.

Anyway, congrats on that Dark Ages extension for all those Believers out there.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #202
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Helen Lawson View Post
Dude, you're the one who runs around getting posts deleted, threads closed, and people suspended. You're really one to talk.
and he's the one who keeps spamming whole TF sending PMs that nobody reply.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 05:23 PM   #203
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Helen Lawson View Post
Sometimes they delete the offending post(s), sometimes they just close the thread, appears to be no rhythm or reason to it. That thread was far less derailed than many that they have let continue, so either it was the content, or, as I suspect, it depends who complains and what they want.
ahhhh crap.
i reported one post as being offensive. i thought that would be easier than jumping into the off-topic argument. but i definitely did not request the whole thread to be closed or anyone to be banned.
sorry, first and last time reporting
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #204
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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ahhhh crap.
i reported one post as being offensive. i thought that would be easier than jumping into the off-topic argument. but i definitely did not request the whole thread to be closed or anyone to be banned.
sorry, first and last time reporting
I didn't mean you.
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #205
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Re: New Pope Francis!

That thread had become redundant and offensive for either part of the discussion, it was due to be closed IMHO. I'm still shocked mods closed it thoug.
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Old Mar 17th, 2013, 05:17 AM   #206
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Nicolás89 View Post
That thread had become redundant and offensive for either part of the discussion, it was due to be closed IMHO. I'm still shocked mods closed it thoug.
If redundancy and offensiveness are grounds for closing threads, TF might as well hang it up and turn out the lights now.
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Old Mar 18th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #207
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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The problem is with the Catholic Church's tone. Social issues are almost an obsession with the hierarchy and by constantly involving itself in these debates and coming out with inflammatory, caustic comments about gays and contraception and abortion and the other stuff, it serves to turn more and more people off the church.

Look at the Dalai Lama in comparison. He himself does not support gay marriage or abortion (though he does in certain circumstances), and shares largely the same views as the Church on these issues. The difference is that he very rarely gets involved in these matters, because he is smart enough to realise that people have differing views and knows that involving himself in the culture wars does neither himself or other buddhists any favours.

Hence, he focuses solely on a positive, upbeat message, supporting the poor and speaking out in favour of peace and reconciliation and he is a widely loved and beloved figure as a result. Hindus are much the same. You very rarely see people attacking Buddhists or Hindus for their views on marriage or abortion, despite them being very widely practiced religions in their own right.

Why can't the Church learn some lessons from them?
Excellent post. This problem of the tone has been noticed and commented on even by people within the Catholic hierarchy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOUtij7rI1s&t=12m16s (near the end of Cardinal Dolan's answer, c. 12:50) - "shrill scold".

The Catholic Church persists in being prescriptive w/r/t social issues, and always tries, through the pervasive power of its structure and its social and even political influence in many countries, to impose those views on others. It criticizes and excludes anyone who doesn't conform to its own perceptions on family issues and it criticizes organizations and politicians who are willing to give people the freedom not to follow the social/moral rules and perceptions the Catholic Church preaches.

Deep down, you can feel that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church still feels entitled to dictate moral rules to, and pass judgment on, every person within any society, and that it regrets no longer having the power it once had to enforce those rules and judgments.
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Old Mar 18th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #208
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Re: New Pope Francis!

yay! Congrats


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Old Mar 18th, 2013, 05:37 PM   #209
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Corswandt View Post
Excellent post. This problem of the tone has been noticed and commented on even by people within the Catholic hierarchy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOUtij7rI1s&t=12m16s (near the end of Cardinal Dolan's answer, c. 12:50) - "shrill scold".

The Catholic Church persists in being prescriptive w/r/t social issues, and always tries, through the pervasive power of its structure and its social and even political influence in many countries, to impose those views on others. It criticizes and excludes anyone who doesn't conform to its own perceptions on family issues and it criticizes organizations and politicians who are willing to give people the freedom not to follow the social/moral rules and perceptions the Catholic Church preaches.

Deep down, you can feel that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church still feels entitled to dictate moral rules to, and pass judgment on, every person within any society, and that it regrets no longer having the power it once had to enforce those rules and judgments.
Aye, that all be true. There is clearly a massive disconnect between the hierarchy and the people in the pews...I saw a poll last week that showed 55% of American Catholics support gay marriage (as I do, incidentally) which is unthinkable to the Pope and his cardinals.

They need to temper the rhetoric or risk alienating Catholics further.

I think the new Pope has done a very good job in his first week...the humble, modest tone and his obvious willingness to associate himself with his followers is very positive. You just know he's not far away from coming out with a mad, inflammatory comment about abortion or gays though.
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Old Mar 19th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #210
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Re: New Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Edward. View Post
Aye, that all be true. There is clearly a massive disconnect between the hierarchy and the people in the pews...I saw a poll last week that showed 55% of American Catholics support gay marriage (as I do, incidentally) which is unthinkable to the Pope and his cardinals.

They need to temper the rhetoric or risk alienating Catholics further.

I think the new Pope has done a very good job in his first week...the humble, modest tone and his obvious willingness to associate himself with his followers is very positive. You just know he's not far away from coming out with a mad, inflammatory comment about abortion or gays though.
Bolded part I had no idea. All the more so as in Portugal Catholics seem to be very much in line with the Catholic hierarchy's rules regarding moral and family issues. What the Portuguese Catholics seem to wish for is to be allowed more of a say in the way the Church as an institution is run, and/or for it to allow for a more personal, and less formal/institutional, religious experience.

The Catholic Church in Portugal nowadays is an old fashioned social network for the upper middle classes more than anything else - starting with the escuteiros (a Boy Scout organization ran by the Catholic Church; there's an older, non-Catholic Boy Scout group named escoteiros which remains in the shadow of its much larger Catholic counterpart) and then with youth debating groups in every parish, supposedly for prayer and biblical discussion, but whose main purpose is for teenagers to find future husbands/wives among proper fellow Catholics.
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