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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #166
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by MrsColinKaep View Post
exactly. as his role as tournament director and more importantly as a human being he should have intervened.
It really is that simple. If the family felt like he understood or cared, maybe things would be different. Nothing was right about how Serena was treated in that final. Take out racism, and her treatment in a final still was not right. It's baffling that idiot fans wanting to believe two successful siblings match fix, and that them believing in that justifies their behavior. At that age, in that arena, no one can tell just how deeply that experience cut Serena and no one has the right to dictate her thoughts or actions on it. Just like diminishing the actions of the crowds and inaction of the tournament doesn't help.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:08 PM   #167
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by sashay View Post
If Richard Williams claims to have heard racist remarks directed at him and his daughters how is it that 'he turned it into a racist issue? That statement does not make sense. I heard many things about Richard Williams but never heard anyone called him a liar. You are assuming a lot with your post.
Do you remember when Richard Williams was on the tour. He called Spirilina a white turkey. He made all kind of comments about that took the attention off his daughters and his tennis and made it about him. He is rumored to have extorted money from tournaments by saying his girls will not play unless he is paid MORE. (This I have no evidence of but have been told it's had been commonplace). Yes, I do doubt the comment was said, not because I think there are no racists in SoCal but because of the way Venus has reacted when asked and their subsequent comments.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #168
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by StarDuvallGrant View Post
It really is that simple. If the family felt like he understood or cared, maybe things would be different. Nothing was right about how Serena was treated in that final. Take out racism, and her treatment in a final still was not right. It's baffling that idiot fans wanting to believe two successful siblings match fix, and that them believing in that justifies their behavior. At that age, in that arena, no one can tell just how deeply that experience cut Serena and no one has the right to dictate her thoughts or actions on it. Just like diminishing the actions of the crowds and inaction of the tournament doesn't help.
Did you even watch their early matches together. They were a joke, I wouldn't have paid $20 to watch them back in the early 2000s play a final. And I am a fan of theirs. Their father had a lot of control over their lives when they were younger and if he said to Venus, you're not going to play. She doesn't play. If anyone else she was playing besides Serena she would have tried and retired if it got to be too much.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #169
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by MrsColinKaep View Post
it's sad and unbelievable how cluesless you are about this situation. and i truly don't even mean this in a mean way because you seem like a decent sincere poster and i'm sure unlike madmax, dominic, raiden, leonhart and the other tf racists you're not coming from a nefarious place. you're just fucking....clueless.
Have you ever been to Indian Wells? Well I have. Do you even know anything about me that might indicate what race I am, no you don't. I've been to Indian Wells many of times. I've watched and followed the Williams sisters play from the beginning. And have listened to Richard have foot in mouth disease for a long time and was glad he took a back seat and shut the hell up as they grew older.

Bottom line, the same thing was done to Hingis, Pierce and countless others at Roland Garros and no one talks about the tournament director having to step in. NO one. The fact that the press keeps bringing it up is just there way to stir shit. At the ten year anniversary, the tournament invited them back and said they were more than free to play, the declined. It should have been ended at that point.

So give me a break when you want to call people clueless, and label an excellent tournament a certain way for perhaps some bad sports in the audience one day. We have freedom of speech in this country and there is nothing you can do to stop an audience from booing as a spectator. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Hate speech is another matter and there has been no one specific that could have been pointed to and perhaps refunded their money and shown out of the tournament nor am I sure they should have. Cry me a river about a millionairess who gets booed, we all have a lot in life to deal with and much worse than any of them may have went through that one day.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #170
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by JeMa View Post
Did you even watch their early matches together. They were a joke, I wouldn't have paid $20 to watch them back in the early 2000s play a final. And I am a fan of theirs. Their father had a lot of control over their lives when they were younger and if he said to Venus, you're not going to play. She doesn't play. If anyone else she was playing besides Serena she would have tried and retired if it got to be too much.
What a load of crap! What a joke and an idiot you are! Slandering and mudslinging even after all these years. Rumors are not fact you foolish troll.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #171
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by hingis-seles View Post
It's a shame about the boycott of IW, since it is the biggest event outside of the Slams and YEC (yes, it's bigger than Miami). Looking back though, the crowd treatment of Serena in that final was revolting. And yes there was suspicion of match-fixing but also a strong racial element - I don't believe the intensity and length of the booing wouldn't have lasted as long as it did had it been a white girl.
I think this is the part that makes some people uncomfortable therefore they choose to deny that race played any part in the incident. I watched that match on tv and cringed for the duration. It was from that day forward that Serena became one of my faves because in the face of adversity she won that match with all her dignity and integrity in tact.

There are some people who will refuse to understand the DIFFERENCE your skin color makes in how you get treated and the worst part is that usually the black victim always gets blame for causing this on themselves. Even in death as in the case of Trayvon Martin for wearing a hoodie and defending himself from someone who followed, accosted and killed him. What gets ignored is that these incidents commenced mainly because the person is BLACK and certain assumptions are made based on that FACT.
I think this article will help to explain why some of us and WS feel the way we do about IW. Great find Hippoty!

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Op-Ed Guest Columnist
The Good, Racist People
By TA-NEHISI COATES
Published: March 6, 2013 594 Last month the actor Forest Whitaker was stopped in a Manhattan delicatessen by an employee. Whitaker is one of the pre-eminent actors of his generation, with a diverse and celebrated catalog ranging from “The Great Debaters” to “The Crying Game” to “Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai.” By now it is likely that he has adjusted to random strangers who can’t get his turn as Idi Amin out of their heads. But the man who approached the Oscar winner at the deli last month was in no mood for autographs. The employee stopped Whitaker, accused him of shoplifting and then promptly frisked him. The act of self-deputization was futile. Whitaker had stolen nothing. On the contrary, he’d been robbed.

The deli where Whitaker was harassed happens to be in my neighborhood. Columbia University is up the street. Broadway, the main drag, is dotted with nice restaurants and classy bars that cater to beautiful people. I like my neighborhood. And I’ve patronized the deli with some regularity, often several times in a single day. I’ve sent my son in my stead. My wife would often trade small talk with whoever was working checkout. Last year when my beautiful niece visited, she loved the deli so much that I felt myself a sideshow. But it’s understandable. It’s a good deli.

Since the Whitaker affair, I’ve read and listened to interviews with the owner of the establishment. He is apologetic to a fault and is sincerely mortified. He says that it was a “sincere mistake” made by a “decent man” who was “just doing his job.” I believe him. And yet for weeks now I have walked up Broadway, glancing through its windows with a mood somewhere between Marvin Gaye’s “Distant Lover” and Al Green’s “For the Good Times.”

In modern America we believe racism to be the property of the uniquely villainous and morally deformed, the ideology of trolls, gorgons and orcs. We believe this even when we are actually being racist. In 1957, neighbors in Levittown, Pa., uniting under the flag of segregation, wrote: “As moral, religious and law-abiding citizens, we feel that we are unprejudiced and undiscriminating in our wish to keep our community a closed community.”

A half-century later little had changed. The comedian Michael Richards (Kramer on “Seinfeld”) once yelled at a black heckler from the stage: “He’s a ******! He’s a ******! He’s a ******!” Confronted about this, Richards apologized and then said, “I’m not a racist,” and called the claim “insane.”

The idea that racism lives in the heart of particularly evil individuals, as opposed to the heart of a democratic society, is reinforcing to anyone who might, from time to time, find their tongue sprinting ahead of their discretion. We can forgive Whitaker’s assailant. Much harder to forgive is all that makes Whitaker stand out in the first place. New York is a city, like most in America, that bears the scars of redlining, blockbusting and urban renewal. The ghost of those policies haunts us in a wealth gap between blacks and whites that has actually gotten worse over the past 20 years.

But much worse, it haunts black people with a kind of invisible violence that is given tell only when the victim happens to be an Oscar winner. The promise of America is that those who play by the rules, who observe the norms of the “middle class,” will be treated as such. But this injunction is only half-enforced when it comes to black people, in large part because we were never meant to be part of the American story. Forest Whitaker fits that bill, and he was addressed as such.

I am trying to imagine a white president forced to show his papers at a national news conference, and coming up blank. I am trying to a imagine a prominent white Harvard professor arrested for breaking into his own home, and coming up with nothing. I am trying to see Sean Penn or Nicolas Cage being frisked at an upscale deli, and I find myself laughing in the dark. It is worth considering the messaging here. It says to black kids: “Don’t leave home. They don’t want you around.” It is messaging propagated by moral people.

The other day I walked past this particular deli. I believe its owners to be good people. I felt ashamed at withholding business for something far beyond the merchant’s reach. I mentioned this to my wife. My wife is not like me. When she was 6, a little white boy called her cousin a ******, and it has been war ever since. “What if they did that to your son?” she asked.

And right then I knew that I was tired of good people, that I had had all the good people I could take.

Ta-Nehisi Coates, a senior editor at The Atlantic, is a guest columnist. Nicholas D. Kristof is on book leave
Likewise, I'm trying to think of a white American tennis player that would have been treated so badly at IW but can think of none.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #172
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by gbenga View Post
What a load of crap! What a joke and an idiot you are! Slandering and mudslinging even after all these years. Rumors are not fact you foolish troll.
You know what they say, 'Those Who Protest To Much" and that poster has commented at least 20 times just in this thread. You also know what they say, "Please Don't Feed The T***lls".
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #173
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

@crescentmoon I usually don't feed trolls as I have most of them on ignore but I just can't with their character assassination tactics.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #174
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by gbenga View Post
What a load of crap! What a joke and an idiot you are! Slandering and mudslinging even after all these years. Rumors are not fact you foolish troll.
Wow we are all defending Richard Williams. He had no issues with stating his opinions of everyone in the tennis community, I have no problem stating mine of him. Not a fan. Stop calling people trolls, I prefaced everything I said with having no evidence, so people could take it for what it was.

You need to do better than your sampling of adjectives when what I state are valid words.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #175
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by StarDuvallGrant View Post
Racism aside, when he or anyone in tournament least of all the crowd saw a teenager being booed, what levels did that have to rise to? Decorum... bullying... plain old nastiness? Kudos to Charlie for rooming with Ashe, being Latino and whatever else. None of that helped the situation or Serena and certainly doesn't give the goings on a stamp of approval. IW does well, good for it and the people who enjoy it. The success of the sisters speaks for itself.
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Originally Posted by MrsColinKaep View Post
exactly. as his role as tourament director and more importantly as a human being he should have intervened.
Should he? That's the point. He's seen far worse, with people intervening and NOT intervening.

He made an informed decision. Maybe it was the right one, maybe not, but it was INFORMED. Maybe the current situation was the best that could have been salvaged out of the situation. But is saving a professional athlete from a booing crowd that critical? I think not. That's why they're called 'professional'.

But again, the athlete has the ability to tell the event to fuck off.

Do I think there was a good degree of racism in what happened to V&S at IW? Hell yeah. Do I think Charlie Pasarell has witnessed (not necessarily suffered) way worse? Hell yeah again.

I've never heard anybody suggest that Venus and Richard were threatened. Insulted? Vilified? SUre. But no way do I think Richard Williams sits there with his 21 year old daughter actually being threatened with physical harm.

Leaving me with?

I've been called 'n*gg*r' myself enough times in this life. Sometimes it's anger, more often (in my case) it's been jealousy, and FAR the most often, it's ignorance. Serena and Venus may well be doing the most good by continuing this boycott. Because it forces, every year, a discussion that a lot of people would rather not have.

Would it be more mature to 'forgive'? Maybe they have. The question is, is it best to return, for whatever reason?

Seems to me, based on the sheer existence of this thread, they're doing goo by staying away. Because they're forcing us to have the discussion.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #176
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Originally Posted by JeMa View Post
Wow we are all defending Richard Williams. He had no issues with stating his opinions of everyone in the tennis community, I have no problem stating mine of him. Not a fan. Stop calling people trolls, I prefaced everything I said with having no evidence, so people could take it for what it was.

You need to do better than your sampling of adjectives when what I state are valid words.
What valid words had you stated? The same words you admitted you have no evidence for? You don't have to like the man. But you can at least try not throw mud and dirt at him. Peddling the same rumor that was started by jealous Dementieva and repeated by Mauresmo with no evidence 13 years ago makes you a blabbing idiot.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #177
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Stop calling people trolls, I prefaced everything I said with having no evidence, so people could take it for what it was.
That is exactly why people are calling your posts a pile of
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 10:16 PM   #178
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Did you even watch their early matches together. They were a joke, I wouldn't have paid $20 to watch them back in the early 2000s play a final. And I am a fan of theirs. Their father had a lot of control over their lives when they were younger and if he said to Venus, you're not going to play. She doesn't play. If anyone else she was playing besides Serena she would have tried and retired if it got to be too much.
Their matches couldn't have been more normal under the circumstances. Around that time Serena had trouble beating Venus cause of emotions and rarely did. After she sorted that out in her mind, then it was Venus who had the emotional problems and rarely beat HER.

Excactly how would Richard or anybody involed benefit from hand-picking their matches anyway. It's really one of the dumbest theories anyone could latch onto because hardly anyone could beat either of em at the time.

Especially not mauresmo or the other chick saying that silly mess. Both of them were as distant to that family as anyone, so how in the hell would they even have the audacity to feel they knew something that close to the family.

It's amazing the things people believe because they read it.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #179
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

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Do you remember when Richard Williams was on the tour. He called Spirilina a white turkey. He made all kind of comments about that took the attention off his daughters and his tennis and made it about him. He is rumored to have extorted money from tournaments by saying his girls will not play unless he is paid MORE. (This I have no evidence of but have been told it's had been commonplace). Yes, I do doubt the comment was said, not because I think there are no racists in SoCal but because of the way Venus has reacted when asked and their subsequent comments.
Do you remember what Spirlea had to say about Venus after Venus tore her a new one? GTFOH! Can you say selective memory?

EDIT: And let's be honest. If Venus and Serena had been journey women who hung around the top 30 for most of their careers, very few people would have a problem with them. But they had the audacity to come out and not only win majors (they pretty owned Wimby for the past 14 years) but they did the unthinkable of meeting in 5 consecutive major finals.

And some folks simply could not stand it then and can stand it to this day.
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Old Mar 9th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #180
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Re: Indian Wells Tainted? Charlie Pasarell - Only himself to Blame?

lol....the Sperlea match was the first time I ever saw Venus, but by the time that match was over "white Turkey" would've been the nicest thing you could call her cause she was clearly an ignorant bitch.

Yall apologists can keep on but you would be surprised what people really think of that shit or you.

only people feelin that are the ones who have that same problem
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