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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 06:48 PM   #736
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Will she play in KL now?

Now Pavs and Daniela have Entered else there was only Caro on the EL...
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 07:00 PM   #737
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Not a bad match from Caro today..agree with Matt Cronin that she improved a lot..but when Azarenka, Serena, Petra or Maria are on top there ist nothing to win for Caro.

Off to Kuala now. Took the title, Princess.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 09:06 PM   #738
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya00000 View Post
Not a bad match from Caro today..agree with Matt Cronin that she improved a lot..but when Azarenka, Serena, Petra or Maria are on top there ist nothing to win for Caro.

Off to Kuala now. Took the title, Princess.
Their best match was probably the Hopman Cup exhibition match last year.

I find it hard to imagine a premier 5 let alone a slam being won without at least one of those players having to be beaten along the way. Last year those four either won or were beaten along the way by the eventual winner in 14 of the 15 biggest tournaments (premier 5s, premier mandatories, Olympics, Yec, and the slams). If you include Aga, it's 15 out of 15 tournaments. So if Caro can't figure out a way to beat these players, her chances of winning a big title again are very small.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 09:18 PM   #739
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
Their best match was probably the Hopman Cup exhibition match last year.

I find it hard to imagine a premier 5 let alone a slam being won without at least one of those players having to be beaten along the way. Last year those four either won or were beaten along the way by the eventual winner in 14 of the 15 biggest tournaments (premier 5s, premier mandatories, Olympics, Yec, and the slams). If you include Aga, it's 15 out of 15 tournaments. So if Caro can't figure out a way to beat these players, her chances of winning a big title again are very small.
She lost that one so I'd rather opt for Beijing 2010. Draws do fall apart at the big events sometimes but you are right she will need to find a way of beating these players again. Many challenges are still ahead of her. Hopefully she'll build on the good performance in Dubai in the upcoming big tournaments.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 09:34 PM   #740
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
Their best match was probably the Hopman Cup exhibition match last year.

I find it hard to imagine a premier 5 let alone a slam being won without at least one of those players having to be beaten along the way. Last year those four either won or were beaten along the way by the eventual winner in 14 of the 15 biggest tournaments (premier 5s, premier mandatories, Olympics, Yec, and the slams). If you include Aga, it's 15 out of 15 tournaments. So if Caro can't figure out a way to beat these players, her chances of winning a big title again are very small.
When you consider where she was from August, 2010 to April, 2011 I can certainly understand why it is frustrating that she can't seem to break through and get a win over one of the top four but you also need to realise how far she has fallen since her peak. The fact that in the last two tournaments she got as far as playing a top ten player has to be seen as real progress. If she can keep doing that she will get a better idea of what she needs to do to beat them and hopefully break through to another biggish final. As others have pointed out losing to Agnieszka and Petra is much preferable to some of the first and second round exits she has gone through over the last fifteen or so months.

We have to wait and see if she can sustain these results or if this is temporary but if she can keep this level of play up good things are likely going to happen for her eventually.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 09:54 PM   #741
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

lol...

Print

Former No. 1 Caroline Wozniacki says she did not realize she couldn’t ask her father and coach, Piotr, for coaching advice while he was sitting in the stands during her 4-6, 6-1, 6-4 win over Marion Bartoli in Dubai.

Wozniacki, who is a member of the WTA Players Council (which helps make tour rules), received a warning for illegal coaching.

“I’m not sure if it’s coaching if I talk to the coach, but apparently that’s new rules, so I guess that I can’t say anything nowadays,” she told reporters. “I was telling him things, and all of a sudden I hear I get a code violation. I’m like, okay.”

She then added with a laugh: “I was telling him what I was doing wrong. There’s not much he can say because he knows that if he says yes, then he’s in trouble, and if he says no, he’s in trouble too.”
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 11:26 PM   #742
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

^ I assume that's from some blog or article.

In Caroline's post match PC, the 'coaching' violation was asked to and elaborated on.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 02:21 AM   #743
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Petra handled Aga pretty easily yesterday(and,at times,overpowered Serena in her last tourney),so could you be more specific on what,exactly,you expected from Caroline??Nothing less than a win??Hitting 14 UEs in a match with 19 games averages out to less than .7 UEs per game....I wouldn't call that a huge number even for a counterpuncher who rarely swings wildly away.Even FIT players are sometimes in less than peak form after a long 3-setter the previous day.That shouldn't be news to you,and it's not as if Caroline was huffing and puffing out there like a couple of her out-of-shape Adidas comrades would've been.

Are we supposed to count winners now as the primary barometer of Caroline's play??I'm all in favor of Caroline's being capable of ending points quickly with attacking shots but,if you're expecting her to lead the tourney winners counts,then you'll probably be disappointed and would be better off supporting a BBB
14 unforced errors is a lot if you have only 8 winners. Generally, about a 1 winner to 1 unforced error ratio is a good level of play.

Now you're just being silly. Caro's winner count is a partial measure of aggressiveness so it matters somewhat in assessing her play. If Caro has too low a winner count, there's a good chance she was playing it too safe/too defensively. If Caro has too high a winner count, there's a good chance she was playing it too risky/too aggressively. Caro's unforced error count of course matters a lot but the acceptable number of unforced errors depends a lot on how Caro is trying to play: safe, risky, or something in between.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 03:08 AM   #744
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
14 unforced errors is a lot if you have only 8 winners. Generally, about a 1 winner to 1 unforced error ratio is a good level of play.

Now you're just being silly. Caro's winner count is a partial measure of aggressiveness so it matters somewhat in assessing her play. If Caro has too low a winner count, there's a good chance she was playing it too safe/too defensively. If Caro has too high a winner count, there's a good chance she was playing it too risky/too aggressively. Caro's unforced error count of course matters a lot but the acceptable number of unforced errors depends a lot on how Caro is trying to play: safe, risky, or something in between.
You're just doing a lot of empty babbling over statistics--without much REAL insight;I thought that you could do better than that with so many hours to think it over

Your 1:1 ratio is an arbitrary standard,so who decides how much deviation from the ratio is acceptable??YOU??Matt Cronin??Pam Shriver??What if it's 1:1.1 or 1:1.2??Would that mean that the player did a terrible job b/c he/she failed to meet your 1:1 ratio??Right now,you're just blabbing statistics without applying them in any intelligent,practical way.You've offered ABSOLUTELY ZERO to suggest what,specifically,Caroline did wrong--or what she should've done correctly.You're merely whining that she didn't play well and cowering behind raw stats,feigning expertise,without addressing any real issues

Caro's winner count might have NOTHING to do with her aggressiveness,or lack thereof,if she never had a CHANCE to hit winners due to being pinned on the baseline by an opponent's laser shots....or Caro might face an opponent on red clay who chases tons of balls down and is nearly impossible to hit winners against....EITHER of those factors could produce low winner counts for Caro while not saying jack squat about how aggressive she was or wasn't.Your first statement is simply moronic;if Caroline played superb defensive tennis and forced loads of errors,say 30 or more,from her opponent,then 14 UEs from Caro would be puny by comparison and she'd likely coast to a swift victory

Did you even WATCH the match,Protoss?Or are you just running your mouth based on what you read from some blog and pretending to know WTF you're talking about by twisting around a few stats to suit your philosophy??I've got some comrades in this forum who exceed my technical knowledge by far--some of whom are VERY critical of every aspect of Caro's game,win or loss--and most everyone seems to feel that she made some visible improvements.

Until you show me some sort of REAL insight to prove that you watched the match and took a few moments to analyze Caro's on-court play...instead of just reading the post-match statline...whose opinion do you suppose that I'll respect more??
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 08:55 AM   #745
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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^ I assume that's from some blog or article.

In Caroline's post match PC, the 'coaching' violation was asked to and elaborated on.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 09:41 AM   #746
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 11:19 AM   #747
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

At least now I'm clear with what happened in Caroline's falloff.
Words like confused, hunger, stupid decisions, like a job - its was all mental.
That was clear going back to her losses to Vinci & Mchale when she was 3000 points ahead of #2.

Now she says she's hungry again. So the least we can expect is that at IW & Miami she doesnt lose before playing Vika or Maria or Serena or Petra or Li or Aga.
If she still is losing to players like Ivanovic, and she's hungry, her career is in deep trouble.

Its going to be tough to get back to anywhere close to where she was until she finishes tight sets strongly.
She gave away the Aga match late in set 2, those last 2 points vs Petra were awful misses.
But at least she got thru those draws, and its very important she keeps doing that.
Players like Vika, Aga, Maria have created an aura, where players see their name in the draw and prepare for the next tournament. They know they're probably not having a long week if they draw Vika or Aga in round 2 or 3.
Caro has to keep beating players like Mona & Marion, and get into that elite group of consistent top players again.
I think if she keeps getting very deep into draws, she'll start getting some quality wins.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 02:03 PM   #748
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
At least now I'm clear with what happened in Caroline's falloff.
Words like confused, hunger, stupid decisions, like a job - its was all mental.
That was clear going back to her losses to Vinci & Mchale when she was 3000 points ahead of #2.

Now she says she's hungry again. So the least we can expect is that at IW & Miami she doesnt lose before playing Vika or Maria or Serena or Petra or Li or Aga.
If she still is losing to players like Ivanovic, and she's hungry, her career is in deep trouble.

Its going to be tough to get back to anywhere close to where she was until she finishes tight sets strongly.
She gave away the Aga match late in set 2, those last 2 points vs Petra were awful misses.
But at least she got thru those draws, and its very important she keeps doing that.
Players like Vika, Aga, Maria have created an aura, where players see their name in the draw and prepare for the next tournament. They know they're probably not having a long week if they draw Vika or Aga in round 2 or 3.
Caro has to keep beating players like Mona & Marion, and get into that elite group of consistent top players again.
I think if she keeps getting very deep into draws, she'll start getting some quality wins.
great post hope Caroline can keep up the good momentum and find a nice balance between aggressive play when she can and perfect defense to not give away cheap points like Marineblue said. It's got a be an almost flawless combination when she faces the very top players on good days. Tough to do but we've seen her do it before
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 02:06 PM   #749
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
14 unforced errors is a lot if you have only 8 winners. Generally, about a 1 winner to 1 unforced error ratio is a good level of play.

Now you're just being silly. Caro's winner count is a partial measure of aggressiveness so it matters somewhat in assessing her play. If Caro has too low a winner count, there's a good chance she was playing it too safe/too defensively. If Caro has too high a winner count, there's a good chance she was playing it too risky/too aggressively. Caro's unforced error count of course matters a lot but the acceptable number of unforced errors depends a lot on how Caro is trying to play: safe, risky, or something in between.
The statistician in you.... I think that when it come to Caro she has 2 plans: either plays it safe or does the 'something in between' thing. I think the second option is the best one to use against the current top 10 because most of these players won't give her many (if any) free points. Kvitova and Li are probably the ones who are quite generous in this regard but other than that,nope, all of the other players hit with a lot of precision.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2013, 02:52 PM   #750
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

As Goldenlox hints at,Caroline will have a difficult test against the elite players,some of whom can overpower her when they're not making many errors.From what I saw of the match--and I actually WATCHED it instead of reading the post-match line like a couple of ignorant stats geeks did--Caroline didn't play badly except for a few brief moments(and even elite players have a couple bad moments during matches).Her problem is that she still hasn't mastered that one aspect of superb defensive tennis where one can use an opponent's pace against her and turn around even some powerful shots.Whenever she makes big improvements in that one area,she'll get hit off the court much less often
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