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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:29 PM   #196
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Monheaux View Post
^^We shall see. I still think that Vika will lose more games en route to the semis than Maria. Wanna bet?







Wednesday.
Sorry I just cant stand using the 'number of games lost' as an indicator of what is/isn't a tougher draw. E.g. Drawing Venus Williams in R3 of any slam is a tough draw. Losing 4 games against her doesn't suddenly dismiss that fact. Vika could drop 6 games against some random and that, according to your criteria there, means it was a harder draw? The comparison to be made is the top players one would be required to face to make a final.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #197
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Lachy View Post
Sorry I just cant stand using the 'number of games lost' as an indicator of what is/isn't a tougher draw. E.g. Drawing Venus Williams in R3 of any slam is a tough draw. Losing 4 games against her doesn't suddenly dismiss that fact. Vika could drop 6 games against some random and that, according to your criteria there, means it was a harder draw? The comparison to be made is the top players one would be required to face to make a final.


Yes, it does work. The more games lost the more difficult the draw for the player. If it wasn't, then #6 Kerber and #7 Errani would automatically be the more difficult draw then #8 Kvitty and #9 Stosur, no?
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #198
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Monheaux View Post
^^We shall see. I still think that Vika will lose more games en route to the semis than Maria. Wanna bet?
Me? Haha. I'd gladly lose this bet

Maria losing more games may also just mean she's playing like Poova there so I won't read too much into there
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #199
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Monheaux View Post
Yes, it does work. The more games lost the more difficult the draw for the player. If it wasn't, then #6 Kerber and #7 Errani would automatically be the more difficult draw then #8 Kvitty and #9 Stosur, no?
No it doesn't. And I never said it should be based on seeding.

Take this random draw for example...

Player A def. Greta Arn - 6-1 4-6 7-5
Player A def. Ayumi Morita - 7-6 6-4
Player A def. Sara Errani - 6-4 2-6 6-3
Player A def. Agnieszka Radwanska - 7-6 7-5
FINAL

Player B def. Dominika Cibulkova - 6-1 6-2
Player B def. Sabine Lisicki - 7-6 6-2
Player B def. Petra Kvitova - 6-3 6-2
Player B def. Serena Williams - 6-4 6-4
FINAL

According to you, player A had the 'tougher draw' when it is blatantly obvious to anyone that clearly, they didn't It doesn't work.

Firstly, the fact that Serena is in Maria's half automatically makes her draw harder. Full stop. Semi colon. Whatever. Even though there was no way for Vika to face Serena before the final, that doesn't change the fact that her draw is easier because of it.

Furthermore, you argued that Errani, Radwanska and Kerber are Vika's toughest rivals in her draw? That has to be a joke, I'm sorry Radwanska may be a challenging opponent, but that is a big match-up issue between her and Vika...a big one.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:53 PM   #200
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

tbf though lachy, vika has had to face rena a lot recently in her half of the draw
i'd rather masha meet rena in a non-slam tournament tbh
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #201
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Lachy View Post
No it doesn't. And I never said it should be based on seeding.

Take this random draw for example...

Player A def. Greta Arn - 6-1 4-6 7-5
Player A def. Ayumi Morita - 7-6 6-4
Player A def. Sara Errani - 6-4 2-6 6-3
Player A def. Agnieszka Radwanska - 7-6 7-5
FINAL

Player B def. Dominika Cibulkova - 6-1 6-2
Player B def. Sabine Lisicki - 7-6 6-2
Player B def. Petra Kvitova - 6-3 6-2
Player B def. Serena Williams - 6-4 6-4
FINAL

According to you, player A had the 'tougher draw' when it is blatantly obvious to anyone that clearly, they didn't It doesn't work.

Firstly, the fact that Serena is in Maria's half automatically makes her draw harder. Full stop. Semi colon. Whatever. Even though there was no way for Vika to face Serena before the final, that doesn't change the fact that her draw is easier because of it.

Furthermore, you argued that Errani, Radwanska and Kerber are Vika's toughest rivals in her draw? That has to be a joke, I'm sorry Radwanska may be a challenging opponent, but that is a big match-up issue between her and Vika...a big one.

Is Serena even playing? And even if she is, we don't know how her ankle is doing. Her being in Maria's draw makes her draw look more difficult on paper, but really nobody knows how Serena is doing. Full stop. Period. Whatever.

You were talking about top players and both, Sara and Aga, are higher ranked than Petra and Sam.

Again, match ups. Player B beat bigger names, but there's a difference if you beat 2006 Serena or 2012 Serena. If you beat Lisicki ca 2007 or now. Petra 2011 or Petra 2012. Aga 2007 or Aga 2012.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #202
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Voices View Post
tbf though lachy, vika has had to face rena a lot recently in her half of the draw
i'd rather masha meet rena in a non-slam tournament tbh
Yeah she has. And I lost count of the amount of times cakewalk-p or Maria's cakewalk was mentioned in a thread. I am unsure as to why, now the shoe is on the other foot, it is not acknowledged that she has a cakewalk or her draw is at least considerably easier
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #203
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Monheaux View Post
Is Serena even playing? And even if she is, we don't know how her ankle is doing. Her being in Maria's draw makes her draw look more difficult on paper, but really nobody knows how Serena is doing. Full stop. Period. Whatever.

You were talking about top players and both, Sara and Aga, are higher ranked than Petra and Sam.

Again, match ups. Player B beat bigger names, but there's a difference if you beat 2006 Serena or 2012 Serena. If you beat Lisicki ca 2007 or now. Petra 2011 or Petra 2012. Aga 2007 or Aga 2012.
Interesting. And the fact that Kerber, one of the players you mentioned being a potential big threat to Azarenka, has had overstressed spinal discs....the fact that nobody has seen her lead in form...the fact that it isn't certain she will play...that was ok to mention. But me mentioning Serena isn't?

And your second argument is now about match-ups. So now you acknowledge that match-ups play a big part, I'm unsure as to why you believe Radwanska is a big threat to Vika. That is one of the biggest most glaringly NID match-ups we have seen in past years.

So which one is it? I'm a little confused. I keep going back to your original post in which you cited these supposedly challenging opponents.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 02:14 PM   #204
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Marilyn Monheaux View Post
Errani is playing well this year, Aga is in great form early this season and Angie is dangerous as well.

Petra is as inconsistent as can be, Sammy is the mental case she's always been and Maria won't have to play Serena before the SF, where the only alternative had been Vika...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Monheaux View Post
I'm watching Errani right now and although it's clay and she lost the first set (LOL), she's not playing badly... :shrugs:

Read my post above for further reference.


Errani just lost to Lepchenko on her favourite surface; other people she has already lost to this year include Hantuchova, Suarez Navarro.

P.S. I could care less who has the biggest cakewalk between Maria & that repulsive spawn, it is just that you are hilarious.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #205
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Lachy View Post
Interesting. And the fact that Kerber, one of the players you mentioned being a potential big threat to Azarenka, has had overstressed spinal discs....the fact that nobody has seen her lead in form...the fact that it isn't certain she will play...that was ok to mention. But me mentioning Serena isn't?

And your second argument is now about match-ups. So now you acknowledge that match-ups play a big part, I'm unsure as to why you believe Radwanska is a big threat to Vika. That is one of the biggest most glaringly NID match-ups we have seen in past years.

So which one is it? I'm a little confused. I keep going back to your original post in which you cited these supposedly challenging opponents.

Kerber slipped my mind. I know I should probably care about her since she's German and all, but I really don't, atm...

I have always acknowledged match-ups.
Azarenka isn't playing as well as she did last year and Aga is playing better. I smell an upset.

Which brings me back to my very first point: Subjectivity. We can argue all we want, but if Poova decides to show up even Maria's first round match could turn out to be a thriller.

Either way, I gotta go back to Linguistics.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #206
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Errani just lost to Lepchenko on her favourite surface; other people she has already lost to this year include Hantuchova, Suarez Navarro.

P.S. I could care less who has the biggest cakewalk between Maria & that repulsive spawn, it is just that you are hilarious.

Did you see the match?


Have some repect. Child. No wonder SS has such a bad rep with repulsive idiots like you.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #207
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Did you see the match?


Have some repect. Child. No wonder SS has such a bad rep with repulsive idiots like you.

No, thank goodness. Errani deserves respect for her work ethic and her accomplishments but let's not sugarcode it every remotely decent player will never lose to her.

Oh, go preach somewhere else Virgin Mary. I am not suggesting that Rena dopes or wishing to lynch somebody, I am just hating on Azarenka who is a despicable monster. Plus I rarely walk on these grounds anymore; it is kinda polluted now with this new Siberian skinhead breed plus Pieter is no longer around and I cannot pick on him.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 03:03 PM   #208
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Voices View Post
tbf though lachy, vika has had to face rena a lot recently in her half of the draw
i'd rather masha meet rena in a non-slam tournament tbh
another myth.
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #209
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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another myth.
Wimbledon, YEC and twice already in 2013 Brisbane, Australian Open etc...
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Old Feb 10th, 2013, 03:24 PM   #210
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Re: GOATpova returns to stay undefeated in Doha. Maria has arrived|DRAWS OUT!

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Originally Posted by Cosmic Voices View Post
Wimbledon, YEC and twice already in 2013 Brisbane, Australian Open etc...
last 5 slams:
Vika-Serena in same half - 2 times
Maria-Serena in same half - 2 times (same quarter both times)

Maria-Serena in same quarters Miami & Madrid equals Olympics and YEC. Doha equals Brisbane.
Its not Maria's fault if/when Serena cant make that far.
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