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Old Jan 19th, 2013, 07:26 AM   #331
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulava View Post
Let me emphasize for the last time that I care less what others think about us except I cogitate on prejudice and propaganda against India/China/Russia etc. I engage confidently because I'm well versed with what's happening in many countries not just in our homeland.

You just reiterate what I said. You feel the western media is prejudiced against our country. Western media is accessible to the world, hence you care about how others/the world views us. No brainer.


This stuff you should ponder as it shows present situation (vote bank)

IKR. But this is the violence against women thread. Colour me sheepish for falling for and calling out a poster on his/her religious intolerance.

This isn't applicable because I never say such things.

But you didn't call him out on that...and I did. If you feel that due to this I am biased then so be it.
Also you said I'm not defending him or anything..... it comes across that way. But I'll take your word for it.

As I said earlier that it's not about me; once again you avoid point:
You mentioned yourself in that post. So . Aren't you a Hindu pilgrim too? Your standards of accomodation could be different to some else's.


For everything? Strangely you defend a non-performing and over-hyped Government, also sure of them? Next, you solely base your defense on a Wiki article. Now I'll share about a few facts which you can't get on Wiki or Google:

a) Top accommodation (tin sheets, not tents) at Baltal (base camp) is ~1500/- for two/day - not affordable to many.
b) Forget about tents - over crowded and unhygienic conditions
c) Food in the camp not worthy, though hot served.
d) Helicopter services? They are NOT free. About 5,500/- per head (in 2007) or $100 so ~11,000 for two. Truth is this service is 'premium' to 95% pilgrims so most go by hiring local Kashmiris (for aged) or walk in groups for Kilometers to reach the destination.
e) Most importantly, death rate at the camp and/or en route to shrine is poorly managed due to lack of better medicare and staff.
f) Less said is better on protection. Even after many hardships, pilgrims visit the shrine by literally risking their lives.

Please link me where you got these facts just to balance my ignorance out.
What would you like them to improve on? Why don't you do your part in asking them to improve the conditions. If I remember correctly, you are an IIT graduate returned to India. You seem to be quite influential. Everyone(including me) blame the government but rarely look into the mirror.

Seems like your view is similar to this.
http://stalin-nationbuilding.blogspot.in/2012/08/are-so-called-hindus-indiansnon-indians.html

Yet I can't gauge as to what you exactly want. The government spending 4000 crores on Hindu pilgrims in proportion to their population or complete abolishment of any subsidy for all communities? Or the Goverment to stop doing this subsidy business to garner votes which IMO is naive but completely on principle.
After 'reading' about the facts I'll give you that they need to improve. But then they have to improve on the numerous pilgrimage sites for Hindu pilgrims. Don't most famous sites/temples have their own trusts due to benefactors like the Sabrimala trust. Do they contribute to the facilities of the pilgrims?

This paragraph sums it up and not only for the Hindu community.
From tangible evidence India is a nation with 80% Hindu population, but why they allow this partiality? Why can’t a country with 800 million can’t raise voice for their privilege at least rather voice for imbalance? The outcome, this is the unity we had in our society as being segregated by numerous castes and having notorious leaders for each castes for their selfish needs. When there is a common problem, no one will unite to raise his or her voice. This is the reason 18% minority but with a strong unity wins. Currently the so called “80% Hindus is a majority in the minority in power as well as unity.” I recall the words of the renowned freedom fighter in Tamil nadu V.O.C’s excellent quotes in 1908”We are 300 million people in this nation, if we are united and if we just blow off our breathe those white crooks will flew away from this nation, can we realize that might and do so?” For instigating this motivational speech against British, he was given lifelong imprisonment. Nevertheless, until now, we could not have such a unity in place, if in place our freedom would have been achieved quite earlier. We should come out of the arbitrary clouds and shackles of religion, caste, and sects and be united as INDIAN. No society can prosperous if we are disintegrated on the evil grounds of caste and sects.

“A disintegrated society weakens the entire nation, where it lets the way for invaders and internal disaster”

And the less said the better about the psuedo secular UPA government & the blatantly Hindutva driven BJP government. I share your derision of vote bank politics.

After reading the way you put up your defense, one could easily deduce that nothing more could be done and it's their fate. You could have done better than that.

But you also seem? to suggest that the poor Indian muslims should be resigned to their fate of never going on the Haj(which is mandatory once in a lifetime) because it costs the goverment so much. And you will deny this, but it certainly comes across as that IMO.

Irrespective of religion, one can't equate mass pilgrimages (Melas or Dargas or anything) to most holy pilgrimage. It's a flawed logic.
Hmm, logic seems to be the need of the hour. Can you elaborate on this? I don't know the difference.


You thought I make things out of thin air? I knew this from a good time. Read this A.P. Govt. G.O. (State Minority Finance Corporation) letter (2008):

The tour will be aided by Govt. of A.P. to the extent of only Rs.20,000 per head (equal to Haj) and the balance to be borne by the applicant.

http://www.apsmfc.com/i/MS29.pdf

Then late CM and his family members (2004-09) are culpable for their active involvement in religious conversions under the false pretext of alleviating the poverty. He toyed with Caste quotas. He was responsible for 5% quota for Muslims; High Court threw away the case but pending in the Supreme Court. Whatever happened and happening is rubbish. It's criminal.

Offer holy pilgrim discount to every community else stop it for all. My take is NO need for anyone because this country can't survive economically from huge vote-bank appeasing subsidies, schemes etc since many parties are playing with budgets every year (national and states level) on various Scam/Ponzi schemes. Latest one is Cash Transfer farce to derive votes.

Select goverments do this to garner votes during election time which you reiterated.
I know for a fact that no such scheme exists in most states. Try again.
It costs around 60,000 Rs. per individual to visit the holy land.

I mentioned you because you threading on a similar path like his. You may reply any no. of times but present it better balance, perspective and facts but not by bias; try not to dodge any point/topic no matter if it doesn't match to your taste or liking. I may not like some things but I can't run away from reality. That's it.

False. I don't approve his or your stand.

Reality? I am not the one living in the past with bigoted religious views on either Hindus/Muslims( or any other community for that matter).
I call out anyone who feels/propagates this view.
I'm cool with that. You feel I'm biased but then again IMO your first few posts on this matter sounded as if you were an apologist for his/her blatant intolerance. Since you state that this is not the case I'll take your word for it.

I quote this para from a bookmarked article on Indian Economy:

Poverty is a challenge that’s becoming increasingly important in relationship to the alarming rate of new births. This implies that ever more rapid change, or birth control policies like the ‘One Child’ policy in China, are needed to reduce the numbers affected by poverty in the vast Indian economy.

Note: they didn't drag Religion, Caste etc into the scope. It should be same benchmark for every major issue. Hence my stand is quite clear:

No more appeasement. Same Rules, Law, and Justice for every Indian Citizen irrespective of Religion or Caste or Gender

By saying that I conclude now. If you wish you reply then go ahead but I won't be visiting this forum until March/April. Thank you very much.

I concur . Could you link me to this article? If only our politics was devoid of votebank & dynasty.
Religious bias is what I'm against and in any form.
Thank you for your time.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2013, 02:17 PM   #332
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
They had met two years ago, on December 20, “through a mutual friend in Delhi”. She, a physiotherapy student in Dehra Dun, and he, an electronics-and-communications engineer in Delhi.

“She had got my number from our friend. She sent some blank messages. I thought they were from a guy and I sent back an angry text message telling him to lay off,” he says. “I was taken aback when she replied saying she was a girl, not a boy. Curious, I called back and later, apologised,” he says. This triggered a series of telephone conversations, text messages, meetings, movies and shopping trips, till that day on December 16, 2012, when their evening went terribly wrong.

After a movie and a mall outing, they had boarded a bus from Munirka in south Delhi and over the next half an hour, six men in the bus had raped his friend, brutalised them and thrown them off the bus near Mahipalpur flyover in south-west Delhi. After battling for life for 13 days, his friend had died in a hospital in Singapore on December 29.

It’s just days after her death and the wounds are still raw. At his home in Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh, where his parents live, he sits with his right leg in a cast. “She trusted me to guide her,” he says. Over the months, he would start speaking to her family on the phone, offering her brother advice on the choice of his engineering course—electronics and communication, not computers—offering to help her father file an FIR when someone threatened him in the colony, offering her money when her mother underwent a hysterectomy in April last year.

He visited her in Dehra Dun a few months ago, even met her HoD, and took her shopping. He helped write her resume for her internships and they were researching on colleges where she could apply abroad for her post-graduation, while he prepared for the civil services. He was her friend, philosopher and guide.

She often accompanied him when he went shopping—she had “great taste”, he says. On December 20, 2012, four days after she was admitted to Safdarjung Hospital’s Intensive Care Unit, he came in wearing a jacket she had bought him. “Dates were important to her. December 20 was a special date because that’s when we met for the first time. So I went to meet her that day, but she was sleeping and I had to come back,” he says. He went again the next day. “She was so happy that I remembered December 20 and had tried to visit her that day,” he says. Did she like the jacket? “I asked her how I looked, she said I looked good.”

He took his ‘philosopher’ role seriously, often impressing her with his knowledge of the Bhagwad Gita. “She was worried about her final-year results. One night, she sent me a message saying she had chanted Hare Krishna the customary 108 times and had instantly felt better,” he says, smiling. She joined classes at the Art of Living Foundation after him, and had even started reading books like the Alchemist that he bought her.

On December 16, she cooked rice, rajma, puri and dahi bhalla at home, and then called him around 1.30 pm to wake him. They made an impromptu plan, he took an autorickshaw and picked her up from her home in west Delhi and they left for a mall in Saket, south Delhi. She, in a black-and-cream coat and black tights and he, in a khaki coat she had bought him. She asked him how her newly streaked hair looked and he gave her a sceptical nod. At the mall, they ate ice creams and window-shopped. She wanted a pair of boots. “She had a weakness for shoes. She showed me a pair of high-heeled boots and said girls from the northeast wore them in Delhi and they look very smart. Maybe next time, I told her,” he said. They filled a lucky-draw coupon that promised a trip for two abroad. “Of late, she had begun fantasising about going abroad. She wanted to do her post-graduation abroad, even wanted to take her parents abroad,” he says.

The mall was done up in Christmas decorations. They went to watch Life of Pi in the same hall they had seen Gulliver’s Travels when she last came to Delhi from Dehra Dun. “She loved English films, especially 3D movies. She kept playing with her 3D glasses,” he says.

His parents did not know her, but he had once got her to speak to his mother. “My mother has rheumatoid arthritis. One day when she complained of pain in her ankle, I made her talk to my friend. I told my mother that this doctor sahib will tell you about the exercises you need,” he says.

His father is a lawyer in Gorakhpur and his mother a homemaker. “Though she sought my advice frequently and I had spoken to her parents and her brother on the phone, she never invited me home. She was very conscious of the economic disparity between us. I did not care, but since she was conscious, I avoided going there,” he says.

***
The click of high heels signaled her arrival. She was always in a hurry, rushing about in her heels, dropping in with morning chai, advice and gossip for her friend, neighbour, confidante, and “soul sister”. This was the friend she had grown up with—they had gone to the same schools, carried identical lunch boxes, bought cycles one after the other, competed over marks, heights and weights, and teased each other about boys. They even had the same hair styles, till she went to Dehra Dun.

After Dehra Dun, her taste in Bollywood music gave way to Bryan Adams’ songs. Green Day’s I walk a lonely road and Enrique Iglesias’s Ring my bells alternated as her cellphone ring tone. Her tailored kurtas were replaced by readymade short kurtis and tops, mostly in nets. In college, she discovered her oratorical skills and was the emcee for many functions and parties, including for the farewell in October.

Her “best friend” calls her an “expert in giving English interviews”. So when the friend had an interview with a private airline company on December 13, she wrote out a page of instructions on how to impress the prospective employer, complete with a dress code. Black heels—“not too high, not too low...mid-level heels”—were a must so she loaned her a pair from her own collection. “My name is XXX. My father is a business (cut) service man and my mother is a homemaker…My hobbies are…” she had scribbled for her on a paper hurriedly torn from her brother’s notebook. “She told me the interviewer is not interested so much in what you say, as how confident you are when you say it,” says the friend.

After Dehra Dun, the long, wavy hair that dropped to her waist gave way to a layered cut and became progressively shorter, till it dropped a little below her shoulders. “Once, when she returned on holiday from Dehra Dun, she got her hair straightened for Rs 7,000. Thankfully, her mother did not notice,” the friend says. She loved experimenting with her hair. Once, she cut herself a dainty fringe. Three days before she was raped, she got eight hair highlights done, each for Rs 100, at a Rajouri Garden beauty parlour—in “fire red”, “golden” and “snow white”.

***
A room of her own. She had always wanted one, so two years ago, her father added another floor to their two-room house that he had built 22 years ago.

Neurology and Neurosurgery Illustrated by Kenneth W. Lindsay lies open on page 264, the definition of myoclonus—“a shock-like contraction of muscles”—underlined with pencil. As a physiotherapy student, she did not have to read about brain surgeries, but the subject fascinated her. Her course books, piled on a shelf, have her name scribbled in her neat handwriting on the first page, with the prefix of doctor before her name.

Time has stood still in her 7-foot by 8 bedroom since the afternoon of December 16. Her red suitcase is half open, overflowing with clothes she brought from Dehra Dun in October. The pair of black sandles she wore at home lying near her bed, a face-wash on the table, resume saved on her laptop.

***

As a child, she was scared of her mother. But as she grew up, they became friends—sharing secrets one moment, squabbling the next. “When she was young, if I raised my voice, she would drop whatever she was doing. I hit her once or twice, but her father hated it. He said we should never beat our children,” her mother recalls.

Their last fight was over her hair streaks. “I was angry with her because it was a shock at first, and she had wasted Rs 800 on them. But after a while, I got used to the look, even thought it looked nice. How she would have laughed to hear me say this! She loved winning every fight, convincing me that she had been right,” her mother says.

The mother noticed how Dehra Dun had changed her little girl. “Earlier, she did just as I told her. She would come home when I said, go where I said, wear what I told her to. But after going there, she started wearing jeans and tights. I thought they suited her better than her salwar kameez. So, I did not object,” her mother recalls. “She loved wearing black. She had a wheatish complexion, so I did not like her wearing black, but she said it was for style.”

When she returned home after her final-year exams in October 2012, she asked her mother for some money. “She said she wanted to buy a new face cream so I gave her Rs 1,000. The badmaash that she was, she came back with a sari for me. I never wore it. I said I would save it for her shaadi,” she says, fighting away tears.

At 5 feet 4 inches, she was petite, barely weighing 45 kg. “She had lost a lot of weight last year and I used to tell her she looked more like a patient than a doctor and she would shoot back, ‘Girls die to get such a figure’. She loved sweets. She would want sugar or jaggery with her rotis. Of course, that was before she became figure-conscious,” says the mother.


***
Three decades ago, her parents left their village in Ballia district, Uttar Pradesh, to go to Delhi. Life in the big city was tough. The father did odd jobs—a mechanic and a guard, till he became a cargo loader at the airport three months ago. Double shifts at the airport earned him Rs 11,000 a month. Money was never enough, but they didn’t let that come in the way of their aspirations for their children—they wanted them to go to English-medium schools. He had to take a huge loan to clear his other debts, a loan he is still paying off.

So in her mustard-and-white uniform, she went to an English-medium school in west Delhi. The principal who taught her English in class V says, “She always tried speaking in English. I remember how she would even try speaking to her mother in English.” Her friend followed her to the school and so did her her brothers, three and six years her junior. “She was the engine, her brothers were the coaches that followed her,” says her mother.

The monthly fee of Rs 225 was at times a problem for the family, so they paid a consolidated sum, whenever they could. But after their daughter’s class V, when it got too tough, they had to move her to a government school. The ‘best friend’ followed.

Around the time she was in class IX, her career goals got sharper—she wanted to be a doctor. “Before that, she had spoken about wanting to be a writer and a teacher. But she told me applications for medical courses were expensive, each cost about Rs 1,000, and asked if she could take tuitions,” says the father.

By the time she was in class XII, she had started teaching children in class X. “She would go to school at 7 am, come back by 1 pm, and start taking tuitions by 2 pm. She taught them English, Math and Science, about 25-30 children. The classes went on till around 6 pm,” says her mother. She taught her brothers too. Like his sister, the older of the two boys, now 20, also started taking tuitions after his class X.

She was a bright girl—scored over 95 per cent in math in her class X and an aggregate of over 80 per cent in her class XII. After school, she took a break for two years to prepare for medical entrances.

While she studied at home, she joined an English-speaking class for four months. The tuitions continued. In 2006, she could not clear the entrance test at AIIMS or the All-India Pre-Medical Entrance Test, but managed to secure an MBBS seat in a private college. But the fees were steep and the only way she could have managed was if she got an education loan. She applied for one, but when she wanted a guarantor, she found none. After this incident, she refused to visit her father’s village—a place she had never liked visiting.

“She last visited the village after her class XII exam in 2006, when her grandfather died. My wife and I and our youngest son would come every year, but she and my elder son didn’t want to,” says the father.

Her cousin in the village, an 18-year-old girl, says, “We would speak occasionally on the phone. Whenever didi came here, she stayed inside and kept reading. She used to tell me, try to get out of here as soon as possible.”
***

In 2008, she went to Dehra Dun for her Bachelors in physiotherapy. After classes, she worked at a Canadian call centre and barely slept for 2-3 hours a day. A year later, she bought a laptop with her savings. “She made the down payment herself. I paid the installments,” says her father. She made her resume on this laptop and completed her final-year project on neuro-physiotherapy on it.

The HoD of her department in Dehra Dun says, “Neuro-physiotherpay was her primary subject and orthopedic physiotherapy was the second choice. She wanted to do her Masters in neuro-physiotherapy.” She had downloaded on to her laptop several episodes of the Discovery channel show, Deception with Keith Barry, about a mentalist who delves into the mysteries of the mind.

In October, when she came home for her six-month internship—after which she would have earned her graduation—she had watched Amir Khan’s Talaash on her laptop with her brothers. She had also bought watches for her brothers and father and bed covers for home. While she gave interviews for the internship, she joined a call centre in Gurgaon on December 4. Barely two weeks later, she landed an internship at a private hospital in Delhi. She had only been going there for a week when tragedy struck.

When she was admitted in Safdarjung hospital after the gang rape, she asked for a wrist watch. One of her brothers tied his watch on her wrist—the one she had gifted him. “She would keep checking the time and when it got late, she would tell my mother to go to sleep. She would hold her hand while she slept,” says her brother.

In Singapore, during her final moments with her family, her brother took a loose strand of her hair as he held her—this was for keeps. “We kept staring at the flickering monitor. Gradually, the waves became a horizontal line and my sister was gone—just like that,” he says.
***

It’s January 12, the day of the tervi or the thirteenth-day ritual after death when the family prays for the departed soul. Her clothes in a bundle—black sweaters, tops in blue and red, black and green netted shirts, blue and red halters, a white-and-pink spaghetti top—are handed over to the doms, members of a community that lights funeral pyres.

The girl’s mother, who lay in a small room in the family’s village home, wakes up with a disturbing dream. “My daughter came running in, as usual in a hurry, in her blue jeans and white top. She asked me what we were doing. I told her we had to go to the village. She sat down in a huff, sulking like she always did at the mention of coming here, and said, ‘I will not go to the village at any cost’,” says the mother, breaking down.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/a-...hort/1061918/0

What she was....what could have been Jyoti Singh Pandey.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2013, 02:14 AM   #333
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

poor girl . That "friend" who was on the bus on that fatal night was clearly her boy friend right?
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Old Jan 23rd, 2013, 02:51 AM   #334
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

A month old panel discussion from Al Jazeera, about some broader factors surrounding Jyoti's tragic case:

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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 06:37 AM   #335
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...250905/1/.html

what?In India, rapists aged 16~18 are considered teenage
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 06:38 AM   #336
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

NEW DELHI: The father of an Indian student who died after being gang-raped on a bus has called for changes in the law to allow a teenage suspect to be tried as an adult, local media reported.

The father of the 23-year-old victim said he was shocked that a court ruled that the sixth suspect in the deadly gang-rape case would be tried as a juvenile, facing a maximum prison term of three years if convicted.

"I want to ask the lawmakers if an exception shouldn't be made in this case," the father, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was quoted as saying in the Hindu newspaper.

"We want to be reassured by the government that my rights to justice is protected. In this case the accused is hiding behind legal loopholes in the system," he added.

The victim's family has been among those calling for the juvenile to be tried alongside the five other accused, who face the possibility of being hanged if found guilty of rape and murder charges.

But the Delhi-based Juvenile Justice Board on Monday accepted the school records of the teenage suspect, which states that he was born on June 4, 1995, making him 17.

"The news came in as the family sat down to have its evening meal. Nobody has eaten since then," the father said from the family's modest one-room accommodation in east Delhi.

The dead woman, a physiotherapy student, suffered massive intestinal injuries during the assault on December 16 in which she was raped and violated with an iron bar.

She died 13 days later after the government flew her to a Singapore hospital in a last-ditch bid to save her life.

Though sexual harassment is commonplace in India and gang-rapes far from rare, the case has touched a nerve, leading to an outpouring of criticism of the treatment of women in Indian society.

A government panel set up to recommend changes to sexual crime laws last week rejected calls for the age at which people can be tried as adults to be lowered to 16 from 18.

- AFP
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...250905/1/.html
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Old Jan 29th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #337
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

yeah, that bastard should be tried as an adult, such horrible creature
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Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 08:45 PM   #338
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

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Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:20 PM   #339
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Wow ^^^

So is she having the baby?
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Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:55 PM   #340
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykarma View Post

Lets try to break down what seems to have happened, from this very brief article. He takes the nude pictures of her. (Were they taken surreptitiously, or with her co-operation?) He blackmails her with them (presumably into having sex with him?) The word "repeatedly" implies that there were multiple encounters, which him having the pictures kept her from reporting.

So far it seems consensual, though he'd be guilty of extortion. (And invasion of privacy, IF the pics were taken lets say from outside with a telephoto lens, or with a "spycam" planted somewhere). She finds out she's pregnant, seeks an abortion, and its denied. (I don't know the Turkish abortion laws). It seems that then she snaps, kills him, and publicly alleges rape (to defend her honor).

The guy was seemingly a total SOB, but this seems like lets say a Jewish girl impregnated by a non-Jewish guy (who pretended 2B Jewish) then killing him and claiming rape afterwards; though she'd presumably have been able to have an abortion. Sorry, but lying (or even blackmail, as in the article) isn't rape, if the "use or threat of force" is absent. If the women of Turkey are widely victimized, they should find a better case to cite.
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Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:23 PM   #341
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Lets try to break down what seems to have happened, from this very brief article. He takes the nude pictures of her. (Were they taken surreptitiously, or with her co-operation?) He blackmails her with them (presumably into having sex with him?) The word "repeatedly" implies that there were multiple encounters, which him having the pictures kept her from reporting.

So far it seems consensual, though he'd be guilty of extortion. (And invasion of privacy, IF the pics were taken lets say from outside with a telephoto lens, or with a "spycam" planted somewhere). She finds out she's pregnant, seeks an abortion, and its denied. (I don't know the Turkish abortion laws). It seems that then she snaps, kills him, and publicly alleges rape (to defend her honor).

The guy was seemingly a total SOB, but this seems like lets say a Jewish girl impregnated by a non-Jewish guy (who pretended 2B Jewish) then killing him and claiming rape afterwards; though she'd presumably have been able to have an abortion. Sorry, but lying (or even blackmail, as in the article) isn't rape, if the "use or threat of force" is absent. If the women of Turkey are widely victimized, they should find a better case to cite.
Would have been easier to use google instead of just creating a made up story.

Quote:
CNN) -- A woman in Turkey is awaiting trial after beheading a man who she says raped her repeatedly for months and is the father of her unborn child. Her lawyer says the woman killed the man to protect her honor.

Nevin Yildirim, a 26-year-old mother of two, lives in a small village in southwestern Turkey. She said the man, Nurettin Gider, began the attacks a few days after her husband left in January for a seasonal job in another town, according to a source close to the case.

Yildirim said Gider threatened her with a gun and said he would kill her children, ages 2 and 6, if she made any noise, according to the source. That was the first of repeated rapes over the next eight months, the source said.

At one point, Yildirim said, Gider sneaked into her house while she was asleep and took pictures of her, the source said. One of the pictures shows her pregnant body. Gider threatened to publish the pictures if she didn't obey him, the source said.

In small villages like hers, honor is held above all else, and women carry the burden of honor for their families. Pictures like those would have been devastating for Yildirim and her family and could have posed a danger.

Pakistan: 'Honor' murderer boasts of triple killing

On August 28, at least five months pregnant by a man who she said continued to rape her, Yildirim said she decided she had had enough. Gider was climbing up the back wall of her house. "I knew he was going to rape me again," she said at her preliminary hearing August 30.

She said she grabbed her father-in-law's rifle that was hanging on the wall and she shot him. He tried to draw his gun and she fired again.

"I chased him," she said. "He fell on the ground. He started cussing. I shot his sexual organ this time. He became quiet. I knew he was dead. I then cut his head off."

Witnesses described Yildirim walking into the village square, carrying the man's head by his hair, blood dripping on the ground.

"Don't talk behind my back, don't play with my honor," Yildirim said to the men sitting in the coffee house on the square. "Here is the head of the man who played with my honor."

She threw Gider's head to the ground, the witnesses said. Video from Turkish broadcaster DHA, which arrived on the scene before the authorities, showed Gider's head on the ground.

Witnesses called authorities and Yildirim was arrested.

Gider was 35 and the father of two children, 15 and 9. He was married to an aunt of Yildirim's husband.

Yildirim told her legal representative she regrets what happened, the source said.

"I thought of reporting him to military police and to the district attorney, but this was going to mark me as a scorned woman," Yildirim said, according to the source. "Since I was going to get a bad reputation I decided to clean my honor and acted on killing him. I thought of suicide a lot but couldn't do it."

Rape survivors speak out

Yildirim said she was worried people would judge her children because of what happened, the source said.

"Now no one can call my children bastards," she said, according to the source. "I cleaned my honor. Everyone will call them the children of the woman who cleaned her honor."

British court convicts parents in 'honor' murder

The source said Yildirim went to a health clinic a while ago seeking an abortion, but health workers told her she was 14 weeks pregnant and abortion was not an option.

In Turkey, abortion is allowed during the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, after which it is permitted only to save the life or health of the mother or in cases of fetal impairment, Human Rights Watch said.

At her hearing, Yildirim said she doesn't want to keep the baby and that she is ready to die, the source said. The public prosecutor's office has ordered a medical examination to decide whether Yildirim may have an abortion and to assess her mental stability, the source said.

Yildirim's father, Zekeriya Yildiz, told DHA his daughter did not report the alleged abuse to anyone in the family.

"If she would have told us, we would have taken other precautions," he said.

Yildirim is in the local jail while she awaits trial.

In a report last year, Human Rights Watch decried gaps in Turkish law that it said leave women and girls unprotected from domestic abuse. Some 42% of women older than 15 in Turkey and 47% of rural women have experienced physical or sexual violence at the hands of a husband or partner at some point in their lives, the group said.

"She has lived through a terrible trauma. She must be charged with self-defense," said Gursel Oztunali Kayir, a sociologist at Akdeniz University and a member of Antalya Women Support Organization.
I can only imagine what this woman was going through in a country where women are treated like second class citizens.
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Old Feb 2nd, 2013, 11:32 PM   #342
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

That is one sick situation to be in; poor lady.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 12:02 AM   #343
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
....
(CNN) "I thought of reporting him to military police and to the district attorney, but this was going to mark me as a scorned woman," Yildirim said, according to the source. "Since I was going to get a bad reputation I decided to clean my honor and acted on killing him. I thought of suicide a lot but couldn't do it."
....
Yildirim said she was worried people would judge her children because of what happened, the source said. "Now no one can call my children bastards," she said, according to the source. "I cleaned my honor. Everyone will call them the children of the woman who cleaned her honor."
Thank you for giving more than the previous snippet, which I thus analyzed conditionally, as in "seems to have happened". But she still carried out her own "honor killing", in fact using the very word, if the translation is accurate. And from the far more detailed CNN story, it seems that she was only driven to forcefully defend herself when she realized she couldn't abort, not earlier.

For example, she could have shot him with that gun months earlier when he was outside or entering her house, assuming the timeline is accurate. I have sympathy for someone who was victimized like her (especially as she might have been arrested for adultery if she'd reported the first incident to the authorities). But unlike poor Jyoti in India, Yildrim seems like the wrong "poster woman".
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 01:36 AM   #344
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Thank you for giving more than the previous snippet, which I thus analyzed conditionally, as in "seems to have happened". But she still carried out her own "honor killing", in fact using the very word, if the translation is accurate. And from the far more detailed CNN story, it seems that she was only driven to forcefully defend herself when she realized she couldn't abort, not earlier.

For example, she could have shot him with that gun months earlier when he was outside or entering her house, assuming the timeline is accurate. I have sympathy for someone who was victimized like her (especially as she might have been arrested for adultery if she'd reported the first incident to the authorities). But unlike poor Jyoti in India, Yildrim seems like the wrong "poster woman".
Since the "snippet wasn't enough for you you could have used google as well as I could. Frankly, I could give a darn whether she shot him the first time but that certainly is the last time for him. I can only imagine the torment this poor woman went through and can only hope that she is freed and even so her life will never be the same. I for one will never find myself in her situation so I refuse to judge anything she did and would suggest you do the same.
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Last edited by mykarma : Feb 3rd, 2013 at 11:32 PM.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 06:47 AM   #345
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Lets try to break down what seems to have happened, from this very brief article. He takes the nude pictures of her. (Were they taken surreptitiously, or with her co-operation?) He blackmails her with them (presumably into having sex with him?) The word "repeatedly" implies that there were multiple encounters, which him having the pictures kept her from reporting.

So far it seems consensual, though he'd be guilty of extortion. (And invasion of privacy, IF the pics were taken lets say from outside with a telephoto lens, or with a "spycam" planted somewhere). She finds out she's pregnant, seeks an abortion, and its denied. (I don't know the Turkish abortion laws). It seems that then she snaps, kills him, and publicly alleges rape (to defend her honor).

The guy was seemingly a total SOB, but this seems like lets say a Jewish girl impregnated by a non-Jewish guy (who pretended 2B Jewish) then killing him and claiming rape afterwards; though she'd presumably have been able to have an abortion. Sorry, but lying (or even blackmail, as in the article) isn't rape, if the "use or threat of force" is absent. If the women of Turkey are widely victimized, they should find a better case to cite.
wow, so it's you who has the true inside story and not the turkish journalists......great......
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