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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:05 AM   #91
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
That would be Capriati to both.
It amazes me how little you know about tennis.....


- Seles and Serena are the two fastest women in professional tennis to record 5 or more victories against top 10 ranked players upon joining the WTA tour. Seles by her first 33 main draw matches, Serena, who now holds the WTA record, by her first 16 main draw matches.
Everyone knows that it takes awhile on the tour before a new comer starts beating the top 10 ranked players. One of the greatest measures of talent in tennis is how a rookie player copes with the best players in the game. The records show that none has done this better than Serena Williams, followed by Monica Seles.

I am not even going to address the second point.....
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:08 AM   #92
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by brickhousesupporter View Post
It amazes me how little you know about tennis.....


- Seles and Serena are the two fastest women in professional tennis to record 5 or more victories against top 10 ranked players upon joining the WTA tour. Seles by her first 33 main draw matches, Serena, who now holds the WTA record, by her first 16 main draw matches.
Everyone knows that it takes awhile on the tour before a new comer starts beating the top 10 ranked players. One of the greatest measures of talent in tennis is how a rookie player copes with the best players in the game. The records show that none has done this better than Serena Williams, followed by Monica Seles.

I am not even going to address the second point.....
What kind of dubious record is this? The only reason Serena technically holds it is because she decided not to enter tournaments at 13 (when Capriati started playing them) because she wasn't good enough to win matches. Doesn't change the fact that Capriati notched up both achievements at a MUCH younger age than Serena.

EDIT: Who says Serena only "joined" the WTA a couple of months before she started beating top 10 players anyway? Many people would say that you "join" the WTA / turn professional the second you play your first professional match -- and Serena played her first match in 1995, more than 2 years before she beat top 10 players or entered the top 10. Capriati beat top 10 players and made the top 10 within a year of playing her first professional match
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:18 AM   #93
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
What kind of dubious record is this? The only reason Serena technically holds it is because she decided not to enter tournaments at 13 (when Capriati started playing them) because she wasn't good enough to win matches. Doesn't change the fact that Capriati notched up both achievements at a MUCH younger age than Serena.

EDIT: Who says Serena only "joined" the WTA a couple of months before she started beating top 10 players anyway? Many people would say that you "join" the WTA / turn professional the second you play your first professional match -- and Serena played her first match in 1995, more than 2 years before she beat top 10 players or entered the top 10. Capriati beat top 10 players and made the top 10 within a year of playing her first professional match
It's kind of hard to do that when she didn't even play a main draw till October '97. Oh and the fact that she didn't play at all in 1996, but of course you would leave that out.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:25 AM   #94
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
What kind of dubious record is this? The only reason Serena technically holds it is because she decided not to enter tournaments at 13 (when Capriati started playing them) because she wasn't good enough to win matches. Doesn't change the fact that Capriati notched up both achievements at a MUCH younger age than Serena.

EDIT: Who says Serena only "joined" the WTA a couple of months before she started beating top 10 players anyway? Many people would say that you "join" the WTA / turn professional the second you play your first professional match -- and Serena played her first match in 1995, more than 2 years before she beat top 10 players or entered the top 10. Capriati beat top 10 players and made the top 10 within a year of playing her first professional match
dsanders06, if you ask ANY tennis professional, analyst or player they would state the case that Serena was and has been the most dangerous floater of all-time. Age does not make the difference. The debate isn't who was the youngest, but the quickest to achieve in their professional careers.

Now as for who made whom, I believe Richard has a lot to do with how he shaped his daughters careers, BUT Venus was the one out the gates first and was the most feared, even after Serena's major win and speedy rise up the ranks.

Venus would say that Serena was the one she feared most in order to instill the confidence that she always exuded but Serena lacked as little sister. Richard also would talk up Serena as a tactic to affirm her. Serena has always measured herself to Venus, knowing that she was the measure of how well she played as a professional athlete.

So Venus DID pave the way for Serena to have a better and more successful career. She learned from Venus victories and more importantly, her losses. Serena had the better deal being the younger sister, but just as talented, if not more. Serena owes a lot of credit to Venus for where she is now in her career.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:31 AM   #95
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by legalise# View Post
It's kind of hard to do that when she didn't even play a main draw till October '97. Oh and the fact that she didn't play at all in 1996, but of course you would leave that out.
Yes, and the reason she didn't play earlier is because she lost in qualifying when she played her first match in '95. Whereas Capriati was actually good enough to come through the qualifying rounds, and indeed to do major damage in main draws, when she was that age. So basically, the only reason Serena gets this stat is because of the technicality that she was kept away from tournaments until she was old enough to actually win matches there, when other players were already good enough to do it at younger ages

The fact is that, despite this hilarious technicality that allows you to claim Serena is the best in this regard, there are countless players who did these achievements at an EARLIER and YOUNGER age: Seles, Capriati, Hingis, and even one Maria Sharapova (she cracked the top 10 at earlier age than Serena at any rate, not sure about the "beat top 10 players" stat).
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:35 AM   #96
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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The fact is that, despite this hilarious technicality that allows you to claim Serena is the best in this regard, there are countless players who did these achievements at an EARLIER and YOUNGER age: Seles, Capriati, Hingis, and even one Maria Sharapova.
dsanders06 you've just stirred up an anthill of Willitards especially with the last name in your last sentence It's not gonna be good
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 12:48 AM   #97
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by brickhousesupporter View Post
It amazes me how little you know about tennis.....


- Seles and Serena are the two fastest women in professional tennis to record 5 or more victories against top 10 ranked players upon joining the WTA tour. Seles by her first 33 main draw matches, Serena, who now holds the WTA record, by her first 16 main draw matches.
Everyone knows that it takes awhile on the tour before a new comer starts beating the top 10 ranked players. One of the greatest measures of talent in tennis is how a rookie player copes with the best players in the game. The records show that none has done this better than Serena Williams, followed by Monica Seles.

I am not even going to address the second point.....
wrong.dsanders is right (for once), Serena is no match for JCap in this kind of comparisons.Take a look at her first year on tour :

First event : youngest player ever to reach a final (at 13 y.o)and scores her first top10 win.3rd event played : beat Sanchez (#5)and loses to navratilova in the final.After 3 events she get her first rank : #25 !().1 month later : youngest ever player to reach the FO SF (loses to Seles).Then youngest ever to be seeded in a GC (#12 at Wimbly).Then win her first title (4th youngest ever)and finally reaches the top10 (once again, youngest ever at 14 y.o), qualifies for the YEC (youngest ever) and ends her first season ranked #8.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 01:31 AM   #98
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by brickhousesupporter
Who won the first Williams major? Who beat more top 10 players faster than anybody ever has and ever will? Who had the fastest rise into the top 10 ever? Cut the crap.




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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
That would be Capriati to both.





Capriati reached the top 10 at the youngest age, but it was Serena who came out of the block and started beating the top 10 players fastest ever.




Capriati started her professional debut at 13 years 11 months ( almost 14yo). She beat 2 top 10 players in her first 2 main draw tournaments.(No. 10 Helena Suková and No. 5. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario). She then made her Grand Slam debut at the FO then Wimbledon, losing to Monica Seles and Graf respectively.




Serena was recorded as the the lowest-ranked player in the open era to defeat two top 10 opponents in one tournament at the youngest age at 16yo
. In her first ever main draw, ranked world no. 304, she upset world no. 7 Mary Pierce and world no. 4 Monica Seles, in her second main draw, as a qualifier ranked world no. 96, she defeated world no. 3 Davenport in the quarterfinals. Williams made her debut in the main draw of a Grand Slam tournament at the Australian Open, where she defeated sixth-seeded Irina Spîrlea in the first round, before losing to sister Venus in the second round in the sisters' first professional match.[18]..



So in the first 2 main draw tournaments, Capriati defeated 2 top 10 players, No 5 Arantxa and No10 Sukova, while Serena defeated 3 top 10 players No.3 Davenport, No 4 Monica Seles, No 7 Mary Pierce. The later, no doubt, sounds much more impressive. Also, Serena defeated a top 10 player in the first Grand Slam debut N0.6 Irina Sprilea, while Capriati didn't defeat any top 10 players in her first 2 Grand Slams, losing to top 10 players Monica Seles and Graf when she first rain to them. ( All source from Wikipedia)




Capriati reached her puberty at an earlier age and she was quite big at 14yo. Serena, reached her puberty late, eventually grew to 5'10 comparing to Capriati 5'8. As usually when teenager reached puberty early, then they don't grow much taller later on, but they appeared as an adult figure at an early age. So Capriati had an advantage physically when she was in her 14-15. Also, you can argue Serena was losing in the qualification draws when she was 13 yo, but given record book recorded stats in the main draws only when counting achievements, it 's definitely a desperate attempt to be grasping at straws as Serena was very small physically ( seriously, anyone who counting a 13yo little girl" testing water tournaments" is no doubt very desperate.)


Here is a picture for you to regain some perspective at those youngsters in their early ages.





R. Williams was wise when putting out the 13yo little girl Serena for a few pro tournaments testing the water ( losing in qualies) before shut her down completely until she is is mature enough to be out there.( Venus and Serena didn't play juniors, comparing to other girls like Hingis and Capriati). Perhaps that's why Serena still on the top nowadays while Jen is out of the pictures almost a decade. Jen was going strong at her early age due to her father's hungry of fame and money which is the main reason she burned out very soon after and retired early comparing to Serena.

Last edited by dragonflies : Feb 1st, 2013 at 10:10 AM.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 01:36 AM   #99
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dsanders06 you've just stirred up an anthill of Willitards especially with the last name in your last sentence It's not gonna be good
There is not enough time in the world for us to un-delude dsanders06 about his fave.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 01:54 AM   #100
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by homogenius View Post
wrong.dsanders is right (for once), Serena is no match for JCap in this kind of comparisons.Take a look at her first year on tour :

First event : youngest player ever to reach a final (at 13 y.o)and scores her first top10 win.3rd event played : beat Sanchez (#5)and loses to navratilova in the final.After 3 events she get her first rank : #25 !().1 month later : youngest ever player to reach the FO SF (loses to Seles).Then youngest ever to be seeded in a GC (#12 at Wimbly).Then win her first title (4th youngest ever)and finally reaches the top10 (once again, youngest ever at 14 y.o), qualifies for the YEC (youngest ever) and ends her first season ranked #8.




There are 2 points that brickhoussuporter raised in the comparisons: youngest ever to reach the top 10 and fastest to come out of the block and beating a bunch of top 10 players.


Capriati took the first, Serena took the second.


"The youngest ever" ones that you mentioned in your post was NOT the point that originally raised by them and was debated. It was understandable, due to Capriati went full force at a later age due to her father's pushing. Hingis also set a bunch of records of youngest ever. But those were the main reason for burning out, not to be encouraged, hence the age restriction rules.




Personally, I found a youngster came out and started beating top players right at once is more impressive at showed with Serena and Seles both of whom are in the discussion of The Greatest of All Time, while Capriati and Hingis, while great, are certainly many cuts below.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 01:59 AM   #101
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by dragonflies View Post

Serena was recorded as the the lowest-ranked player in the open era to defeat two top 10 opponents in one tournament at the youngest age at 16yo
. In her first ever main draw, ranked world no. 304, she upset world no. 7 Mary Pierce and world no. 4 Monica Seles, in her second main draw, as a qualifier ranked world no. 96, she defeated world no. 3 Davenport in the quarterfinals. Williams made her debut in the main draw of a Grand Slam tournament at the Australian Open, where she defeated sixth-seeded Irina Spîrlea in the first round, before losing to sister Venus in the second round in the sisters' first professional match.[18]..
Again, this is all merely a technicality. Serena defeated all those top players in her first "main draw" tournaments because she wasn't good enough to even beat the world #150 when she attempted to qualify for her first maindraw; Capriati not only qualified for her first attempted maindraw, she went onto beat top players, at the age when Serena was failing to even qualify for the draws in the first place.

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There is not enough time in the world for us to un-delude dsanders06 about his fave.
Thank you for revealing that, when you say "delusion", you mean a fact that you dislike. Maria DID reach the top 10 at an earlier age than Serena did (despite Serena doing it "sooner after joining" or whatever technicality nonsense Brickhouse was saying ), that is simply a fact And no, that doesn't mean I think she's "better" than Serena, I was simply correcting the poster when he so misleadingly claimed Serena reached the top 10 "quicker" than anyone else.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:12 AM   #102
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Again, this is all merely a technicality. Serena defeated all those top players in her first "main draw" tournaments because she wasn't good enough to even beat the world #150 when she attempted to qualify for her first maindraw; Capriati not only qualified for her first attempted maindraw, she went onto beat top players, at the age when Serena was failing to even qualify for the draws in the first place.



Thank you for revealing that, when you say "delusion", you mean a fact that you dislike. Maria DID reach the top 10 at an earlier age than Serena did (despite Serena doing it "sooner after joining" or whatever technicality nonsense Brickhouse was saying ), that is simply a fact And no, that doesn't mean I think she's "better" than Serena, I was simply correcting the poster when he so misleadingly claimed Serena reached the top 10 "quicker" than anyone else.






Did you even read my posts earlier and understood them, at all
?


Like it or not, stats that I pulled out was in the record book, not from one's arbitrary bias ( definitely from yours
). And they certainly didn't count qualification draws, whether you like it or not, especially they didn't desperately count a few " the testing water tournaments" of a small stick figure 13yo Serena 2 years before she started on tour.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:14 AM   #103
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Again, this is all merely a technicality. Serena defeated all those top players in her first "main draw" tournaments because she wasn't good enough to even beat the world #150 when she attempted to qualify for her first maindraw; Capriati not only qualified for her first attempted maindraw, she went onto beat top players, at the age when Serena was failing to even qualify for the draws in the first place.



Thank you for revealing that, when you say "delusion", you mean a fact that you dislike. Maria DID reach the top 10 at an earlier age than Serena did (despite Serena doing it "sooner after joining" or whatever technicality nonsense Brickhouse was saying ), that is simply a fact And no, that doesn't mean I think she's "better" than Serena, I was simply correcting the poster when he so misleadingly claimed Serena reached the top 10 "quicker" than anyone else.
Glad you know her place.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:41 AM   #104
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

Let me tell you a true story. I was a big Steffi fan. Nervous during matches, hated when she lost, etc. Thought Monica was Satan before she got stabbed, and sadly did not appreciate Monica at that time. Another story for another day.

Anyway, so Steffi is making her way back on tour in late '98 and of course I'm watching the Indian Wells final in '99 and am of course nervous because this Serena character is really taking it to Steffi. WTH? Serena is down a break in the third set and with a bad knee. Fine, girl took it to Steffi but thankfully she has faded. But she didn't! Bitch comes back and wins. Against my girl!! WTH, X100. I was not happy at all. So, I've been watching this with one of the fags I'm usually stuck with who rarely watches tennis, and Serena is making her speech about how she now knows what it's like to be on a roll (having won Paris Indoors the previous week). So my fag says that Steffi has been on a roll her whole career and why begrudge this young girl her roll? And you know what? He was right! So I turned it around and was happy for the teen Serena and her "roll" and have been a fan ever since, and appreciated her gutsy moves against my gal in that match and her fighting spirit. I'm not sure getting to the SF of the Australian Open is equivalent to winning Indian Wells over Steffi, but let this girl have her chance in the sun and go on a few talk shows! This could be the highpoint in her career which she should enjoy now, or a hint of thing to come like with Serena in '99.
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Old Feb 1st, 2013, 02:54 AM   #105
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Re: Sloane Stephens on CNN & Ellen Show today

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Originally Posted by Helen Lawson View Post
Let me tell you a true story. I was a big Steffi fan. Nervous during matches, hated when she lost, etc. Thought Monica was Satan before she got stabbed, and sadly did not appreciate Monica at that time. Another story for another day.

Anyway, so Steffi is making her way back on tour in late '98 and of course I'm watching the Indian Wells final in '99 and am of course nervous because this Serena character is really taking it to Steffi. WTH? Serena is down a break in the third set and with a bad knee. Fine, girl took it to Steffi but thankfully she has faded. But she didn't! Bitch comes back and wins. Against my girl!! WTH, X100. I was not happy at all. So, I've been watching this with one of the fags I'm usually stuck with who rarely watches tennis, and Serena is making her speech about how she now knows what it's like to be on a roll (having won Paris Indoors the previous week). So my fag says that Steffi has been on a roll her whole career and why begrudge this young girl her roll? And you know what? He was right! So I turned it around and was happy for the teen Serena and her "roll" and have been a fan ever since, and appreciated her gutsy moves against my gal in that match and her fighting spirit. I'm not sure getting to the SF of the Australian Open is equivalent to winning Indian Wells over Steffi, but let this girl have her chance in the sun and go on a few talk shows! This could be the highpoint in her career which she should enjoy now, or a hint of thing to come like with Serena in '99.





I got the same feeling.

At the late 80s, I was tired of Navratilova and Everts beating everyone 6-1, 6-2 and all the tournaments were started basically from the quaterfinals, then I was rooting hard for Steffi. I was very pleased with her dominated 88 season. Then suddenly Monica Seles came out from nowhere and took it to Steffi as she was winning 4 of the 5 biggest tournies of the years ( 3 Slams minus Wimbledon plus YEC as known as Virginia Slims), then I really disliked Monica Seles. Even her name irritated me and I was really rooting for Steffi every time. Then the stabbing came. Seles disappeared and Graf started to dominated. Then I really missed Seles on tour until she came back in 95 looking a lot chubbier.



Erh, I think I stop here, this thread was supposed to be about Sloane and thanks to desander06, suddenly derailed.
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