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Old Jan 26th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #511
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
Where do you get the notion that she won't be playing Stuttgart? She always has and she's on the entry list as well:

http://www.porsche-tennis.com/prod/p...urrent_players
Stuttgart is not listed as part of her "official" schedule but that doesn't mean much as Seoul was not on her schedule last year either.
http://carolinewozniacki.dk/tour-13/
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Old Jan 26th, 2013, 09:37 PM   #512
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Not talking about their achievements. I'm not knocking those in any way. What I don't like about them is that those three players have been the worst culprits at pulling out of tournaments late that they have committed to. I remember a few years back Serena pulling out with an injury excue and going surfing that week. She was always withdrawing. Just to be clear - I'm not talking about the times they withdraw for a bone fide injury. But when they've done it for tactical purposes. That's what I don't like. That to me is akin to being let down by tradesman who say they will come on a certan day and don't turn up. And that is unprofessional as far as I'm concerned.

All very well and good. What's it to do with Caro? Well what I was trying to say in agreement with Bruce is that that if Caro makes a committment - she has an attitude of meeting it unless injured. But when she sees those three who she gets on well with withdrawing ... All I'm saying is that in the company of those players - I hope she doesn't change in this respect and become like them in breaking a committment in such a cavalier fashion.
I think as you get older, your body doesnt let you honor your commitments.
If Caroline was still in the race for #1, still playing long grueling matches, all week, she would have to pull out of tournaments, or lose early at some of them.
This is still sports, and the champions are the ones honored and criticized and dissected. Caroline backed off from that level, she has a lot of easy weeks the last 18 months.
If she had those grueling weeks, she couldnt honor all those commitments, at least not with a full week of quality tennis. You saw her schedule coming up. Caro of 2010 results, but older couldnt make that whole list
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Old Jan 26th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #513
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Stuttgart is not listed as part of her "official" schedule but that doesn't mean much as Seoul was not on her schedule last year either.
http://carolinewozniacki.dk/tour-13/
Weird, the entry list is from January 14th so she must have pulled out recently..doesn't really add up. I'm surprised to see her play Luxembourg though.

Either way, I get to cross her off my list this year
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Old Jan 26th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #514
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Stuttgart is not listed as part of her "official" schedule but that doesn't mean much as Seoul was not on her schedule last year either.
http://carolinewozniacki.dk/tour-13/
I don't remember, if Seoul was listed in her calendar, but I do remember, it was announced early 2012, she'd play Seoul.

Anyhoo, leaving that aside, there's a bit of a gap now between Charleston and Madrid. I suppose it will be filled with 1, maybe even 2 tournaments.

As for Stuttgart, I must say, I am personally not bothered if she skips it. Yeah yeah, they all love the tournament and she can win a Porsche, but .... the oily clay and indoor makes it very unique and not ideal preparation for Madrid, Rome, FO.
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #515
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
I doubt that she is aiming for Kuala Lumpur,tbh. She wants to go for the bigger titles which would help her ranking as well.
To win bigger titles, she'd probably have to beat a couple of top players. Caro might be beat able one of them but two or three in a tournament seems too much for her level of play these days.
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 01:20 AM   #516
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
Weird, the entry list is from January 14th so she must have pulled out recently..doesn't really add up. I'm surprised to see her play Luxembourg though.

Either way, I get to cross her off my list this year
Caro was a finalist in Luxembourg in 2008 and was two points from winning the match. She ended up losing 3rd set in a tiebreak. After the match, Elena D said winning that tournament was like winning the Olympics which I thought was a bit silly since she actually won the Olympics that year.

Caro also played Luxembourg in 2009 but that's better off not being talked about.
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 03:06 AM   #517
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Not talking about their achievements. I'm not knocking those in any way. What I don't like about them is that those three players have been the worst culprits at pulling out of tournaments late that they have committed to. I remember a few years back Serena pulling out with an injury excue and going surfing that week. She was always withdrawing. Just to be clear - I'm not talking about the times they withdraw for a bone fide injury. But when they've done it for tactical purposes. That's what I don't like. That to me is akin to being let down by tradesman who say they will come on a certan day and don't turn up. And that is unprofessional as far as I'm concerned.

All very well and good. What's it to do with Caro? Well what I was trying to say in agreement with Bruce is that that if Caro makes a committment - she has an attitude of meeting it unless injured. But when she sees those three who she gets on well with withdrawing ... All I'm saying is that in the company of those players - I hope she doesn't change in this respect and become like them in breaking a committment in such a cavalier fashion.
Goldenlox offers some decent points in response to this but fails to justify the most grievous of the nonsense.True,the body tends to break down as you get older,but Serena is in a small minority as a 30-something who regularly goes deep at tourneys.Most of the other top players are AT LEAST 5 years younger;furthermore,a non-teen athlete tends to know his/her body pretty darned well and can reasonably predict how much of a workload it can take.

Also,we must make a distinction between wearing down over the course of the season and actually being injured.Being worn out is a pansy-ass,amateurish excuse for breaking a tourney commitment.Practically EVERY athlete gets worn down over the course of the season,but only the tennis cotton-softies seem to take pride in lying and playing hooky.I can tell you that an NFL player who pretended to be injured,missed an important game, and was later caught surfing would have to be traded almost immediately for his personal safety...or else a couple of his furious teammates would royally kick his ass in the locker room.

Injuries are largely irrelevant on this issue because there are no penalties for the player who is legitimately injured and needs to withdraw.An intelligent player can accurately estimate how many tourneys she's capable of playing.I'm almost certain that the reason we see such ridiculous tourney over-committing is because some players have come to assume that they can talk/fake their way out of showing up.If they were prevented from doing so,then it would be astonishing how quickly they figured out the allegedly indecipherable rocket science of schedule planning

Caro's problem at 2010's end was that she had been unprepared for her first year of routinely going deep in tourneys almost every week;she over-estimated her stamina and had nothing left in the tank for YEC.By the end of 2011,though,I'm sure she had a solid grasp on just how many tourneys her bod could take
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 06:37 AM   #518
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
To win bigger titles, she'd probably have to beat a couple of top players. Caro might be beat able one of them but two or three in a tournament seems too much for her level of play these days.
Really? Well, it doesn't always have to work out that way. Look at how Vika won the AO - not facing more than one top player.
I think Caro will need to improve in many areas this season but I don't see winning a big title as a mission impossible. It'll take a lot of work and dedication but it could work out.
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #519
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
Regarding Caro's play 2013 after a few encouraging signs right at the end of 2012 - Brisbane and Sydney I don't read too much into them that she didn't start off the blocks playing well right from the word go. But I am encouraged by her AO performance and the match by the match she lost against Sveta more than the matches she lost. I was impressed by how she played and really the only questionmark for me is how is she going to continue to play. Because if she continues to play as well as she did at the end of 2012 and as well as she did against Sveta - she will win a lot more matches and there is no doubt in my mind that she will qualify for the YEC.

A lot has been made of Caro becoming weak in pressure points and not holding serve then and if she could that it would be different because the Caro of old was mentally strong in those situations. However, I think that is tied up with her overall game just going South and particularly the number of UEs she makes since her drop with no noticable increase in winners or forced errors from her opponents. However - against Sveta in a 3-setter she had 23 winners to 22 UEs and shell get a lot of wins with those stats.

The biggest problem with Caro's serve is her 2nd serve. And it always has been even in her heyday. And it's unrealistic to expect that she's not going to have at least one servicve game as the match gets tighter where she struggles to get any 1st serves in. No player is exempt from that. When that happens - a lot is dependant on opponent and her mentality. A match can turn on whether her opponet blasts a winner or dumps the return in the net. When Caro lost her serve the end af the 3rd set - Sveta blasted 2 winners off Caro's 2nd serves. She made 4 winners to 1 UE in the last 2 games of the match.

I think the difference between now and then is that winning matches puts more pressure on opponents when it gets tight and losing matches means opponents are less likely to crack when it gets tight. Which is a vicious circle. To break the circle - she has to play tough the whole match. Don't give points away or if she does - don't let the free points she gives away get away from the winners.

So to sum up - I'd like Caro to look back at that matych in a positive light as to how to keep up playing like that the rest of 2013 rather thanm dwelling too much on if this or that she might have won.
Caro hasn't done a good job of following on her good matches during this slump though.

Caro used to be better at winning ugly and being able to prevail in pressure situations despite her overall level of play in that match/set not being that good.

What about taking some pace off her 1st serve in critical situations of sets or matches in order to get some more first serves in?
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 09:42 AM   #520
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
Really? Well, it doesn't always have to work out that way. Look at how Vika won the AO - not facing more than one top player.
I think Caro will need to improve in many areas this season but I don't see winning a big title as a mission impossible. It'll take a lot of work and dedication but it could work out.
Yeah, I always thought there would be a window at hardcourt majors where Caroline could win 5 or so majors. I didnt see this dropoff coming, back when she played Li 2, years ago. I expected Caro to improve, little by little, building on her steady foundation.

I think this major was one of them. Vika played one seed, #29, in the 6 rounds before the final, where she played an injured 30 year old.
Vika might win a lot of majors if she stays the best player of this 24-20 year old generation.
Those winnable hardcourt majors are going to be there. But Caroline has to get her game a lot steadier and a lot more mentally tough, because she doesnt get thru Tier I & above, draws any more
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #521
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Caro learn from her mistake last year. Charleston with same points as Stuttgart. But Stuttgart with a stronger Draw. When she play Charleston she will not play Stuttgart.
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 10:26 AM   #522
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Charleston is sometimes easier. I think both William sisters were there last year.
Its possible that Vika improved enough that Caro cant beat her on hardcourt. In a one on one sport, that can happen. Djokovic kept Nadal from winning more majors off clay.
All you need is one player who is better than you and you dont win.
But if Caro can get near Vika's level, get near Vika's current mental toughness, Vika wont be winning all of them. She will have her adversity, like everyone else.
Caroline will still have opportunities, but not if she cant beat Sveta, Pervak, Safarova, Ivanovic, Goerges, Begu, etc..
Its been a long time since IW 2011
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #523
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Caro hasn't done a good job of following on her good matches during this slump though.
That's exactly why the most important thing is for her to keep up with the way she played against Sveta. I don't want her standard in that match to be a one off she doesn't sustain. She'll usually beat Sveta if she can keep up that level. There is no comparison between the way she (and Sveta) played ayt the AO where she lost and at the last USO where she won. We make too much out of a win or a loss. I don't want to see Caro's normal standard to be playing like she did against Sveta at the USO 2012 even though she beat Sveta then.

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Caro used to be better at winning ugly and being able to prevail in pressure situations despite her overall level of play in that match/set not being that good. ?
But she used to win many times because when it got tight at the end her opponent gifted her an UE, dumped a 2nd serve in the net. Sveta hit two great returns in the AO match to break her. Nothing different in what Caro did on the serve. And don't tell me she never had service games then where she couldn't get 1st serves in.

But my point is that it's a vicious vircle. The more you win, the more likely you are going to keep winning at those pressure moments. And I believe a lot is the mentality of her opponent who at the back of her mind doubts she could actually win despite all she openly said and believes at the beginning of the match. Now players expect to be able to win in these situations against Caro. And I no longer believe in this so called magical cure if she gets better in pressure moments all will be well or be just a bit better at serves and all will be well.

So I believe she was winning in her heyday even when she had a match when not playing particularly well because she was overall not leaking UEs and giving anything away, over the course of all her matches she was a lot better player and because it was so damn hard to beat her and oppenents knew that and that put pressure on them.

To break that cycle - I think she must simply play better and she did - a lot better than most of 2012 and last half of 2011. I'll have to disagree with those who are wailing about her loss to Sveta. Personally I think that is placing way too much on the result of a match and I'm more interested right now in her improving her game regardless of results and believe the results will follow in due course if she maintains an improved level in her game.

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What about taking some pace off her 1st serve in critical situations of sets or matches in order to get some first serves in?
Well we can all have theories. I remember what I thought a disaster in 2011 that experiment on clay where she just did her 1st serves like 2nd serves. How I hated that experiment. And in fact her slump started then. I do thing a serve coach could help and because it wouldn't really get in the way at all and comliment Piotr as coach - she might even keeep him with Piotr. Or am I deluded about that .

But I don't think that is the key thing and everything will be well and she wins all the pressure moments as a result. I think it's her overall level and controlled aggression but managing her UEs and she did against Sveta with more winners than UEs.
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #524
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

The important thing is that Caro took a huge step backward at an age where Vika & Aga were slowly improving, under the radar.
Its probably not an accident that Petra & Caro look lost, while Vika & Aga (who didnt win a major or get to #1) where able to improve without huge expectations.
Vika & Aga handled their 2012 success well, and they are both playing well. Major difference this year so far is that Li was in Aga's quarter & was healthy and in top form for that match.

Both Caro and Petra have to pull themselves together, both mentally & gamewise, and get back in the mix. They were the top 2 young players of 2011.
Obviously not easy. Both of them look like they are mentally struggling big time
Not easy, but you have to make the most of every opportunity, and Caroline, with only 5 match wins in the last 4 majors) is not taking advantage of her situations
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Old Jan 27th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #525
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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The important thing is that Caro took a huge step backward at an age where Vika & Aga were slowly improving, under the radar.
Its probably not an accident that Petra & Caro look lost, while Vika & Aga (who didnt win a major or get to #1) where able to improve without huge expectations.
Vika & Aga handled their 2012 success well, and they are both playing well. Major difference this year so far is that Li was in Aga's quarter & was healthy and in top form for that match.

Both Caro and Petra have to pull themselves together, both mentally & gamewise, and get back in the mix. They were the top 2 young players of 2011.
Obviously not easy. Both of them look like they are mentally struggling big time
Not easy, but you have to make the most of every opportunity, and Caroline, with only 5 match wins in the last 4 majors) is not taking advantage of her situations
Yes I agree with the first two sentences in particular. The specific difference of opinion I have to most posters here is that I think she played very well against Sveta. You and many others have a different opinion and say the same things about her in that match as in other matches - can't win pressure points and bemoan "she didn't take advantage.." So that the only consideration seems to be whether she actually wins a match regardless how she played. Also I think you posted you don't think she played well against Sveta which we just have completely different opinions.

My biggest fear by far is that her match against Sveta was a one off and she reverts to her norm in her slump with loads of UEs and nothing to compensate for them. But where I seem to differ from people here is that I would be delighted if she could keep the level up that she played against Sveta and have no doubt she would start winning more and make the YEC and that can have it's own momentum. And that to me is the most important thing rather than she was simply unable to convert the match into a win this time..
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