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View Poll Results: What changes to the Medical Timeout rules would you support?

No MTOs, play through the pain or retire 4 8.16%
MTOs only before the player's own serve 16 32.65%
MTOs only for external injuries (eg player twists an ankle or is hit in the face by the ball) 11 22.45%
No MTOs for cramp 6 12.24%
No MTOs to retape an existing injury (player's responsibility to come to the match properly prepared) 8 16.33%
Other changes (please state) 4 8.16%
Players would get around any such rule changes anyway 6 12.24%
No change - the rules are fine as they are 21 42.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #16
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobito View Post
Didn't know that. But what I'm suggesting is an automatic 2 point penalty for taking a bathroom break. That would pretty much stop any fake ones.
Why should you lose points for genuinely needing the bathroom?
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #17
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

in my experience, most questionable timeouts occur towards the business end of sets. usually a player takes one just before the opponent serves a crucial game to try and ice her. so i would propose that no MTOs once either player has won 4 games. this might need tweaking for 3rd sets with no tiebreaks, i've not thought that deeply
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #18
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

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Originally Posted by sammy01 View Post
The rules are ridiculous you can take as many time outs in a row as you like.
it's limited to 2
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:01 PM   #19
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

Agree, knee+back+ankle+rib= 20 minutes?
Btw,reading the GS rules, no way..different timing obviously today,why?
And as a physician , the " locked rib " is a new pathology for me, a chiropractor's one maybe ,the WTA needs real clinicians maybe?
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #20
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

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Originally Posted by Third Mall View Post
Why should you lose points for genuinely needing the bathroom?
How many players do you think take a "bathroom" break because they genuinely need the bathroom? The timing of these breaks nearly always appears to be tactical. If a player genuinely needed the bathroom then you can bet they'd take the break at a non-critical stage of the set (eg before the opponent's service game early in a set).
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #21
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

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Originally Posted by bobito View Post
Didn't know that. But what I'm suggesting is an automatic 2 point penalty for taking a bathroom break. That would pretty much stop any fake ones.
http://www.wtatennis.com/SEWTATour-A...Tour/rules.pdf

Here is the bathroom break rule, it could be extended to timeouts too.

"Toilet breaks should be taken on a set break. However, if a toilet break is taken during a set, it must be taken before the player’s own service game. If the player has been authorized to leave the court before her opponent’s service game or during her own service game once started, then the player is leaving the court on her own time and will be penalized with back-to-back Time Violations until the earlier of the time she returns to play, is due to serve, or the score reaches a set break.
Any toilet break taken after a warm up has started is considered one (1) of the authorized breaks. Additional breaks will be authorized but will be penalized in accordance with the Point Penalty Schedule if the player is not ready to play within the allowed time."
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:05 PM   #22
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

The biggest problem with changing the rules regarding medical time outs is what to do? You often hear pundits, commentators saying they need changing without actually giving a solution or just giving an unviable solution.

The most common solution I hear is that MTO's should be stopped. If you're not fit to play you can't play and forfeit. This is commonly spouted on Eurosport. This is never going to happen in the real world though. There would be a large uproar you are putting players health at risk (think of how health and safety has increased in pretty much every sport in the last 2 decades). And secondly do these people actually consider the detriment to the product this does. Players retiring all over the place is far far worse than MTO's, I imagine the majority of fans would rather see a tennis match than someone withdrawing/tanking the match because they can't play.

Deducting points comes under the same category. It does not make good viewing, if you start just gifting games to a player because their opponent is injured.

People need to come up with solutions that are actually viable.

Probably the only solution and slight ammendment I would make is that unless the injury is groundbreaking like the ones players stop mid-game for treatment, you should have to take MTO before your serve. In fact once upon a time not too long ago it seemed umpires were enforcing something like this, but it doesn't seem to happen anymore.

Ps. I notice 'No MTO's for cramp' is an option. I thought this had been changed anyway, that you can't take a MTO for cramp now, you can only get treatment at the change of ends. Or is that only on the mens tour?
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #23
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

I think a MTO per different injury for just one player is one of the most ridiculous things ever to happen to tennis. Remember the Pierce mess at the USO in '05?

There's too much grey aria though. Like someone said in a previous thread, no umpire or trainer will judge a player to be exaggerating/lying and refuse to treat them. The players have absolute control and many have manipulated these 'rules' to their advantage.

Rules need to become much more detached from giving player's endless luxuries.
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #24
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Ps. I notice 'No MTO's for cramp' is an option. I thought this had been changed anyway, that you can't take a MTO for cramp now, you can only get treatment at the change of ends. Or is that only on the mens tour?
correct. treatment for cramp only during the change of ends and no extra time allowed for it. op clearly doesn't know the rules
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #25
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobito View Post
How many players do you think take a "bathroom" break because they genuinely need the bathroom? The timing of these breaks nearly always appears to be tactical. If a player genuinely needed the bathroom then you can bet they'd take the break at a non-critical stage of the set (eg before the opponent's service game early in a set).
Some things are absolutely necessary in tennis, and a bathroom break (without penalty) is definitely one of them. Limit when you can take them by all means, but to penalise players for them is out of the question. Same with MTOs.
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #26
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

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Originally Posted by manu32 View Post
Agree, knee+back+ankle+rib= 20 minutes?
Btw,reading the GS rules, no way..different timing obviously today,why?
And as a physician , the " locked rib " is a new pathology for me, a chiropractor's one maybe ,the WTA needs real clinicians maybe?
Yeah, the first thing I thought was 'WTF? Ribs locking? Are they supposed to be swimming about normally?'

I think it was what is usually felt during a heart attack where you feel pressure in the chest and are unable to breathe. I agree it is unusual for a doctor to use a term like that.
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #27
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

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Originally Posted by Third Mall View Post
Some things are absolutely necessary in tennis, and a bathroom break (without penalty) is definitely one of them. Limit when you can take them by all means, but to penalise players for them is out of the question. Same with MTOs.
jj was famously denied a bathroom break by the umpire at wimbledon when she was clearly taking the piss (pun intended)
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #28
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

The toilet breaks needs to be reviewed. It's now part of the gameplan.
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #29
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

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Originally Posted by ozza View Post
Ps. I notice 'No MTO's for cramp' is an option. I thought this had been changed anyway, that you can't take a MTO for cramp now, you can only get treatment at the change of ends. Or is that only on the mens tour?
I know that the rules were changed to allow this some years ago but I wasn't aware that they had changed it back. Good decision.
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Old Jan 24th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #30
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Re: Do the Rules on Medical Timeouts Need Tightening Up?

On the whole I would say the bathroom break rules are not abused. 98% of them are taken at the end of sets. Sure you could argue this is still killing momentum, but when exactly do you want them to take it? It's far better at the end of a set than taking them mid-set. There are a variety of things you can delay the game and stop momentum with at the end of sets. Eg. the number of players that leave the court to change their dress at the end of set.
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