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Minotaur · Jan 21st, 2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenlox

I guess we have to see how the whole year plays out. But while other consistent young players like Vika and Aga have progressed in their careers, Caroline has gone backwards.
I dont know if the adidas team helps.

This whole thing is about how much Caroline wants her game to improve. We know she is comfortable with her dad and that will be this year at least. But she is definately not as good as 2010, early 2011, when she closed matches out and had winning streaks.
But first I want to see if Sveta can make her match with Vika competitive. If she can play Vika close, then losing twice to Sveta will look okay
So lets see how this goes.

I believe her bad results are a mix of lesser committment to tennis than before (it started when Caroline realised that there are other good things besides tennis) and obvious lack of self confidence (which she lost after those losses to inferior players)...

goldenlox · Jan 21st, 2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I believe her bad results are a mix of lesser committment to tennis than before (it started when Caroline realised that there are other good things besides tennis) and obvious lack of self confidence (which she lost after those losses to inferior players)...

I thought she really understood what she did well and what she didnt. I used to say that all the time, that she used her skillset well.
Now when you see her missing overheads on key points. You dont HAVE to hit an overhead. The goal is to win the point. Its same with so many unforced forehand errors. An aggressive forehand is a risky shot for Caroline.

I think she still works hard, but she doesnt play to her strengths, and she is not improving.
I dont see any part of her game improving, but I see a lot of errors doing things she didnt use to do.

I think its part coaching, but mostly, its mental. She just cant focus and be steady anymore. That creates a mot of missed opportunities

Most of her losses the part 18 months she was in the match, at least close to 1 set all, if not close to winning the match. But she isnt losing to Vika & rarely to Serena & Maria.
Its mostly early round losses that she used to routinely win

marineblue · Jan 21st, 2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWTennis

And what components of her game they have helped her to improve in the last couple of years?

I dont know however I suspect more than Sanchez or TJ.

CWTennis · Jan 21st, 2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marineblue

I dont know however I suspect more than Sanchez or TJ.

Piotr & Sven had a years to work on her game, Sanchez and TJ only 2 months!

TennisFan66 · Jan 21st, 2013, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWTennis

Piotr & Sven had a years to work on her game, Sanchez and TJ only 2 months!

Unless everything we've heard from Caro, Ricardo, TJ and others is a conspiracy, Caro did not feel she got what she needed from working with those two.

It's her decision (unless the above mentioned conspiracy is at play) and she chose to end it early, rather than dragging a relationship, which wasn't working, out.

It does not say anywhere in WTA rules, that a player has to commit to a new coach/trainer for a certain period.

marineblue · Jan 21st, 2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWTennis

Piotr & Sven had a years to work on her game, Sanchez and TJ only 2 months!

Yes,luckily. Had they stayed longer I doubt she'd get at least to the fourth round. Piotr & Sven got her further than Sanchez got Jankovic. TJ 'helped' her to losing in round 1 of 2 slams. Now she has the right team IMO, they have worked together and achieved amazing success. They are there to stay as she obviously has a lot of trust in them.

goldenlox · Jan 21st, 2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marineblue

Yes,luckily. Had they stayed longer I doubt she'd get at least to the fourth round. Piotr & Sven got her further than Sanchez got Jankovic. TJ 'helped' her to losing in round 1 of 2 slams. Now she has the right team IMO, they have worked together and achieved amazing success. They are there to stay as she obviously has a lot of trust in them.

I hope so. Whats good about a message board is that you have different opinions. None of us know what will happen.
If I was a part of Caroline's team I would be very concerned. She doesnt play like someone who wins a lot of titles and makes deep slam runs. And thats who she was in 2010-2011

I would watch her against Vika & Aga back in 2010, and I never thought they would be in 3 of the last 4 slam finals and win several mandatories, and Caro would be winning 5 matches the last 4 majors.
I didnt see it coming, and its been happening for a long time, almost 20 months now, a huge part of her career, and a part of her career where she was healthy and should be moving forward, like Vika & Aga have been getting better

Protoss · Jan 21st, 2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisFan66

Unless everything we've heard from Caro, Ricardo, TJ and others is a conspiracy, Caro did not feel she got what she needed from working with those two.

It's her decision (unless the above mentioned conspiracy is at play) and she chose to end it early, rather than dragging a relationship, which wasn't working, out.

It does not say anywhere in WTA rules, that a player has to commit to a new coach/trainer for a certain period.

I think it's unrealistic to expect much of an immediate payback from a coaching change (not specifically referring to Caro).

I wonder what sort of expectations Caro had when she changed coaches.

Protoss · Jan 21st, 2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marineblue

Yes,luckily. Had they stayed longer I doubt she'd get at least to the fourth round. Piotr & Sven got her further than Sanchez got Jankovic. TJ 'helped' her to losing in round 1 of 2 slams. Now she has the right team IMO, they have worked together and achieved amazing success. They are there to stay as she obviously has a lot of trust in them.

While Caro may achieved very good things with Piotr, her slump also started under his watch.

Piotr also doesn't seem to have the answers so far to get her out of the slump.

TennisFan66 · Jan 21st, 2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protoss

I think it's unrealistic to expect much of an immediate payback from a coaching change (not specifically referring to Caro).

I wonder what sort of expectations Caro had when she changed coaches.

I do not disagree with you. "Good things, sometimes take time" ..

But ... if a player is feeling, it's not the right coach/trainer, I doubt there's much point in continuing. On the other hand, if a player feels it is the right coach, the patience to see through changes will obviously be larger.

Protoss · Jan 21st, 2013, 02:17 PM

Caro is in a bit of a catch 22 situation. She needs confidence to be able to execute in pressure situations. But to gain confidence she'd have to succeed in these pressure situations.

I'd like to see Caro bring in a coach or consultant to help her out with her serve and net game.

Blu€ · Jan 21st, 2013, 02:46 PM

I don't like this switching coach situation either but I think firing Sanchez after a month was a mistake. She was developing her net skills and her serve was better, I think it's unfortunate that she injured her wrist in Sydney, things could have been very different.

Anyways, that's the past. At the present she's decided to stick with Piotr, let's see if they can come up with the solutions. I give them until the US Open, if things are the same, she drastically needs to make a big change.

CWTennis · Jan 21st, 2013, 03:11 PM

I don't care who's Caro's coach, I just want to see her become a better player! Because for me it's really hard to understand, why such a hardworking girl like Caro is not imropving!

bruce goose · Jan 21st, 2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWTennis

And what components of her game they have helped her to improve in the last couple of years?

Yeah,I second your sentiment.APDP isn't the sort of deal that helps players solve major problems with their games as Caro has,as we've seen with at least one other player who won't get mentioned here.According to Burisleif,the program isn't even designed for such problem-solving(that is,if I understood him correctly).

My biggest beef with CERTAIN APDP guys is that they try to act as pimps in offering their charges to hungry,seeking celebrity males,in tennis or outside of it...and they apparently spew ass-kissing flattery to 're-assure' struggling players that they're doing just fine,even when they're clearly NOT

Chrissie-fan · Jan 21st, 2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetadri06

I can't really take comfort in the fact that she got to the fourth round, considering she didn't really play anyone that could hurt her after Lisicki, and Sveta ended up taking her out like I thought she would. If Pavly didn't bomb out in the 1st round, she probably could have taken out Caroline in the 3rd round. She didn't defend her points and she's out of the top 10. Not alot of positives to take from this tournament. We'll have to see how she does in the next mandatory/premier.

The only positive we can take from this tournament is that it could have been even worse. Having said that, I think she actualy played a decent match against Sveta. Halfway through the third set I thought Caro would win it. But unfortunately she no longer has a mental edge in close matches like she had in the past.