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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #391
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
...

Other players seem to be able to add to their games or improve existing aspects but Caro doesn't seem to be able to.

I find it frustrating that she can't get herself something basic like a decent/solid forehand or a good 1st serve.
Other players dont blow up their style of play like Caro did. She won by being the steadiest player on tour, then stopped playing steady. Maybe she was burned out & couldnt play long points anymore. If thats what happened, she should have taken more time off. If she really believed she could just start swinging away on her forehand, like its easy to pound balls near the line, then she found out its not easy.
The reason she isnt improving is that she didnt continue to develop her game while still playing her best tennis. You want to improve what you dont do well, but dont go away from what you do best
To me, that it took her a year and a half to start playing steady again is not understandable. I still dont get what she was thinking that whole period of time
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #392
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by rucolo View Post
I really hope you are joking. Otherwise a completely idiotic comment

R3 vs Tsurenko: 5 Winners, 17 UEs = - 12

That is a horrible stat. And why do you say this ratio is typical ?!

R1 vs Lisicki: 12 Winners, 8 UEs = + 4
R2 vs Vekic: 13 Winners, 15 UEs = - 2

Not to mention the great matches when Caro was playing as #1.
The Ws/UEs differential tells you something about how a player was playing but it doesn't tell you everything. Did she force many errors from her opponent, did she have good depth on her groundstrokes so it was difficult for the other girl to attack, how well did she serve, etc. Those are things you can't tell from Ws/UEs, so sometimes it's still possible to play a good match despite a negative differential.

NB: Wawrinka had a -24 differential today but it was still the best match I've ever seen him play.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #393
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Carrors TM
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #394
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Protoss View Post
Consistency may defeat the big, aggressive hitters but I think Caro's got to have some offensive game/ability to defeat another good defender.

Caro generally had more winners than Aga in their matches up until the 2011 YEC round robin match.
I agree. Her matches against Vera circa 2010-2011 being an example.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #395
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Other players dont blow up their style of play like Caro did. She won by being the steadiest player on tour, then stopped playing steady. Maybe she was burned out & couldnt play long points anymore. If thats what happened, she should have taken more time off. If she really believed she could just start swinging away on her forehand, like its easy to pound balls near the line, then she found out its not easy.
The reason she isnt improving is that she didnt continue to develop her game while still playing her best tennis. You want to improve what you dont do well, but dont go away from what you do best
To me, that it took her a year and a half to start playing steady again is not understandable. I still dont get what she was thinking that whole period of time
I think that it is too early to say that she is playing steady again. She had a good patch last fall but we are still very early in the new season and she did not look at all steady in Brisbane/Sydney. I think that maybe once the hardcourt season ends at the end of March would be a good time to evaluate where she is.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 05:07 PM   #396
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. W. Fields View Post
The Ws/UEs differential tells you something about how a player was playing but it doesn't tell you everything. Did she force many errors from her opponent, did she have good depth on her groundstrokes so it was difficult for the other girl to attack, how well did she serve, etc. Those are things you can't tell from Ws/UEs, so sometimes it's still possible to play a good match despite a negative differential.

NB: Wawrinka had a -24 differential today but it was still the best match I've ever seen him play.
I don't want to speak for the original poster but I think what they meant was that Caroline typically does well when the ratio between winners/unforced errors are close. If the ratio is close to zero or positive she is much more likely to win than if it is greater than negative ten.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #397
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
I think that it is too early to say that she is playing steady again. She had a good patch last fall but we are still very early in the new season and she did not look at all steady in Brisbane/Sydney. I think that maybe once the hardcourt season ends at the end of March would be a good time to evaluate where she is.
Yeah, Brisbane/Sydney were awful results.
But I liked what I saw the 1st 2 rounds here. I didnt like some of her last match. Caroline was fortunate her opponent kept dumping balls into the net on routine groundstrokes.
I still think her ability to focus and play her old style for a full match and all week is a big question mark.
Thats why this match and certainly a QF with Vika will answer a lot of questions.
Its possible she has lost that mental edge that made her so formidable as a steady baseliner.
If she still has that mental toughness, she needs it the next 2 matches
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 07:29 PM   #398
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Martn7 View Post
I think Caro should try to improve her game on clay. She has a playing style which should be good for that surface, but she doesn't move as well on clay as on other surfaces. She should try to move better and slide better, probably improve her drop shots and she could have great results at the French Open
Besides her movement on clay, Caro's difficulty hitting through the clay is a big problem for her on that surface.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #399
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
Caro's W/L against players ranked #75 or worse (WTA MD):

2008-2011: 66-4 (including a ret. against Kremer)

Since USO 2012: 3-3


Sveta is #75. Will be interesting...
Kuznetsova is hardly your typical #75 in the world though. If not for her extended absence due to injury, Kuznetsova would almost certainly be ranked inside the top 30 and likely within the top 20.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #400
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Kuznetsova is hardly your typical #75 in the world though.
Of course not. But the nature of stats is pretty relentless. And it goes both ways: When Caro defeated Serena last year, it wasn't even top 10 win although Serena for sure would be a top 10 player if she hadn't been out for the last part of the 2011 season.

What I wanted to say was: It's quite remarkable how Caro was once such a merciless player when facing lower ranked opponents. 66-4 is outstanding (and it really should be 66-3). That was then...
She doesn't seem to have that kind of focus or determination anymore.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #401
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by angliru View Post
...

What I wanted to say was: It's quite remarkable how Caro was once such a merciless player when facing lower ranked opponents. 66-4 is outstanding (and it really should be 66-3). That was then...
She doesn't seem to have that kind of focus or determination anymore.
Thats what people were saying in GM. That after a short amount of time, players like Caroline and Jankovic cannot keep being that successful with that style of play.
Its not just that Caroline & Jankovic dropped from the very elite. Its the way they so quickly became nonfactors at majors.
But very few players stay at the top for years. Kvitova has weapons, and she hasnt been contending recently either.

Its very hard when you have made a lot of money, have all the material things you wanted, to keep that relentless focus.
I understand it. Once you made that money, you want to enjoy your success, and not force yourself constantly, like you did when you were on the way up
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #402
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Thats what people were saying in GM. That after a short amount of time, players like Caroline and Jankovic cannot keep being that successful with that style of play.
Its not just that Caroline & Jankovic dropped from the very elite. Its the way they so quickly became nonfactors at majors.
But very few players stay at the top for years. Kvitova has weapons, and she hasnt been contending recently either.

Its very hard when you have made a lot of money, have all the material things you wanted, to keep that relentless focus.
I understand it. Once you made that money, you want to enjoy your success, and not force yourself constantly, like you did when you were on the way up
How do you explain Serena or Maria?
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #403
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by DownInAHole View Post
Every year around this time I am excited to see what she has been working on in the offseason and what changes/improvements she has made to her game and every year I am inevitably disappointed. I would save myself a bit of heartache if I started believing the bolded part of your post but I guess that I am too much of an optimist to think that this is as good as her game is going to get.

You do make some good points, maybe Caroline lacks "touch" in the same way that she lacks "power," but I still can't help believing that she is capable of making significant improvements to her game. Her shots may not look pretty but I don't think that means they can't be effective.
Off season? Changes happen over a period of many months. long gone are the days of an off season long enough to makes significant changes.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #404
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Off season? Changes happen over a period of many months. long gone are the days of an off season long enough to makes significant changes.
Caro doesn't give herself much time during the season for training with her heavy schedule though. Groeneveld complained about that before.
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Old Jan 20th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #405
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by 18majors View Post
How do you explain Serena or Maria?
They are great players. For Caroline to be included in a list of greats of this era, with them, she would have to spend years being a slam contender and winning some, and keep getting back to #1 several times.
Both Serena & Maria spent months off the tour with injuries. I still dont know what happened to Caroline, besides not mentally being able to win at the level she used to win
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