[C. W. Fields]

Originally Posted by Protoss

It's a bit frustrating how much more effective Aga's average low to mid 90s miles per hour 1st serve is compared to Caro's average high 90s to low 100s miles per hour 1st serve.

Aga has a smoother service motion than Caro and she's better at hitting the serve box lines. She's also better at disguising where she's gonna hit her serve. Players who have faced Caro many times - like Aga and Zvonareva - often become good at reading Caro's serve.

[DownInAHole]

Originally Posted by Protoss

It's a bit frustrating how much more effective Aga's average low to mid 90s miles per hour 1st serve is compared to Caro's average high 90s to low 100s miles per hour 1st serve.

I find it a bit frustrating how limited Caroline's game is compared to Agnieszka's. Agnieszka certainly lacks power, particularly on her serve, but she makes up for that in the variety that her game has. I really think that Caroline would benefit greatly if she added more shots to her game and gave herself more options in how she wins points. When you look at the types of shots that Caroline uses it is a little shocking how much success she has had with such a basic game. How much better could she be if she mastered more shots?

[Protoss]

Originally Posted by DownInAHole

I find it a bit frustrating how limited Caroline's game is compared to Agnieszka's. Agnieszka certainly lacks power, particularly on her serve, but she makes up for that in the variety that her game has. I really think that Caroline would benefit greatly if she added more shots to her game and gave herself more options in how she wins points. When you look at the types of shots that Caroline uses it is a little shocking how much success she has had with such a basic game. How much better could she be if she mastered more shots?

Well Caro's not been executing her basic game that well of late so trying to add more now doesn't seem like that good an idea.

[Protoss]

Originally Posted by C. W. Fields

Aga has a smoother service motion than Caro and she's better at hitting the serve box lines. She's also better at disguising where she's gonna hit her serve. Players who have faced Caro many times - like Aga and Zvonareva - often become good at reading Caro's serve.

I gotta wonder about how much Caro works on her serve and just what they're trying to do with it.

For example, Johansson was trying to add more speed to her serve with the different stance.

[C. W. Fields]

Originally Posted by DownInAHole

I find it a bit frustrating how limited Caroline's game is compared to Agnieszka's. Agnieszka certainly lacks power, particularly on her serve, but she makes up for that in the variety that her game has. I really think that Caroline would benefit greatly if she added more shots to her game and gave herself more options in how she wins points. When you look at the types of shots that Caroline uses it is a little shocking how much success she has had with such a basic game. How much better could she be if she mastered more shots?

It's a question of touch: Aga has it, Caro doesn't and if she ever had the chance to acquire it, it should have been worked on +10 years ago. I also wish Caro could hit more drop shots/slices/etc., but when she tries to, you can see that she doesn't have the natural fingerspitzengefühl - she only makes the intended shot like half the time - and I don't think she'd get much better at it now even with 1000 hours of training.
Caro may add a small thing or two to her game in the future (and hopefully improve her serve) but it's unlikely she'll ever be hitting shots she doesn't fully believe in on a regular basis, so I think we must get used to the idea that this is pretty much what her game is... and then admire her for what she has accomplished with great stamina and spirit despite her limited hitting repetoire.

[goldenlox]

Originally Posted by Protoss

Well Caro's not been executing her basic game that well of late so trying to add more now doesn't seem like that good an idea.

Yeah. Players like Aga & Vika stayed with their style & kept a natural progression in their careers.
Caro started making a lot of unforced forehand errors. Started losing to players she could beat. Lost her confidence. Lost any aura she had, where players once knew they had tp play well against Caro for hours, now they could see Caro would gift them the match if they could stay close.

Caroline let her career unravel, and for no reason except to experiment with aggressive forehands.
Now she has to try to get back to where she was in early 2011 while the players she was better than in 2011 are slowing moving forward in their career progression

So I think its 2 steps: 1-get back to where you used to be. 2-try to improve from where early 2011 Caro was playing

[DownInAHole]

Originally Posted by C. W. Fields

It's a question of touch: Aga has it, Caro doesn't and if she ever had the chance to acquire it, it should have been worked on +10 years ago. I also wish Caro could hit more drop shots/slices/etc., but when she tries to, you can see that she doesn't have the natural fingerspitzengefühl - she only makes the intended shot like half the time - and I don't think she'd get much better at it now even with 1000 hours of training.
Caro may add a small thing or two to her game in the future (and hopefully improve her serve) but it's unlikely she'll ever be hitting shots she doesn't fully believe in on a regular basis, so I think we must get used to the idea that this is pretty much what her game is... and then admire her for what she has accomplished with great stamina and spirit despite her limited hitting repetoire.

Every year around this time I am excited to see what she has been working on in the offseason and what changes/improvements she has made to her game and every year I am inevitably disappointed. I would save myself a bit of heartache if I started believing the bolded part of your post but I guess that I am too much of an optimist to think that this is as good as her game is going to get.

You do make some good points, maybe Caroline lacks "touch" in the same way that she lacks "power," but I still can't help believing that she is capable of making significant improvements to her game. Her shots may not look pretty but I don't think that means they can't be effective.

[marineblue]

Originally Posted by Protoss

Well Caro's not been executing her basic game that well of late so trying to add more now doesn't seem like that good an idea.

I agree, in the course of 2012 her basic game got worse thanks to the changes. Right now she needs to improve what she used to excel at - her consistency. At her best it was good enough to challenge even the player like Radwanska.

[C. W. Fields]

Originally Posted by DownInAHole

maybe Caroline lacks "touch" in the same way that she lacks "power"

The two are closely connected: if you have great touch you can transfer power from your racket to the ball more effectively.

[angliru]

Caro's W/L against players ranked #75 or worse (WTA MD):

2008-2011: 66-4 (including a ret. against Kremer)

Since USO 2012: 3-3


Sveta is #75. Will be interesting...

[rucolo]

Originally Posted by marineblue

Horrible? This ratio is typical when she wins

I really hope you are joking. Otherwise a completely idiotic comment

R3 vs Tsurenko: 5 Winners, 17 UEs = - 12

That is a horrible stat. And why do you say this ratio is typical ?!

R1 vs Lisicki: 12 Winners, 8 UEs = + 4
R2 vs Vekic: 13 Winners, 15 UEs = - 2

Not to mention the great matches when Caro was playing as #1.

[goldenlox]

I think those numbers are overrated. Hold serve, win big points (like break points), and you can afford some errors.
The last 2 matches were tough to gauge. Young players who cant hold serve.
This starts the real tournament. How she plays the big points, and overall quality of her points, are what matters to me.
If I watch the match, I dont even care about winners and unforced error numbers.
I want to see play like IW 2011
Especially if she plays Vika. What matters are that she can go down the line when the opening is there, not hit short balls, and serve well and play the points well all match

[Protoss]

Originally Posted by marineblue

I agree, in the course of 2012 her basic game got worse thanks to the changes. Right now she needs to improve what she used to excel at - her consistency. At her best it was good enough to challenge even the player like Radwanska.

Consistency may defeat the big, aggressive hitters but I think Caro's got to have some offensive game/ability to defeat another good defender.

Caro generally had more winners than Aga in their matches up until the 2011 YEC round robin match.

[bruce goose]

Players were asked what they'd do if they couldn't play tennis,and Kerber gave her usual automaton answer...she's actually a more boring,lifeless interview than Stosur is...and that's pretty hard to do.I think that if someone asked Kerber what her middle name was,she'd reply,"Ohhh,I don't know,I just try to play good every match and make my shots and I hope that I win."

Amongst the women who were interviewed,Caroline EASILY had the most introspective,thoughtful reply,and she sounded sincere,to boot,as if she had actually given the idea some serious thought.I know that there's an almost fairy-tale quality to Caroline's smile but,when you hear her talk,she comes across as a VERY real person...nothing at all like some of the phony Gal Smiley(that's the female version of Guy Smiley,right? )WTA cover girls who are supposedly so charming......until you catch them at the right moment

[Protoss]

Originally Posted by C. W. Fields

It's a question of touch: Aga has it, Caro doesn't and if she ever had the chance to acquire it, it should have been worked on +10 years ago. I also wish Caro could hit more drop shots/slices/etc., but when she tries to, you can see that she doesn't have the natural fingerspitzengefühl - she only makes the intended shot like half the time - and I don't think she'd get much better at it now even with 1000 hours of training.
Caro may add a small thing or two to her game in the future (and hopefully improve her serve) but it's unlikely she'll ever be hitting shots she doesn't fully believe in on a regular basis, so I think we must get used to the idea that this is pretty much what her game is... and then admire her for what she has accomplished with great stamina and spirit despite her limited hitting repetoire.

Well we'll probably never know as Caro's attempts at adding things like a 1-handed slice or dropshot seem to be dropped pretty quickly. A decent slice should be in the toolskit of a good defender.

Other players seem to be able to add to their games or improve existing aspects but Caro doesn't seem to be able to.

I find it frustrating that she can't get herself something basic like a decent/solid forehand or a good 1st serve.