1992 Canadian Open - Arantxa Sanchez Vicario d. Monica Seles 6-3, 4-6, 6-4 - Page 2 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Reply

Old Jul 24th, 2004, 06:55 AM   #16
country flag Robert1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,667
Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light
Yes, but after all, it didn't work against Monica. I mean, if Monica played her best ASV couldn't see a light at all. If Monica played badly, it was close and usually Monica won anyway. ASV won 3 times, all 3 times Seles blew a lead and was physically and mentally not there. Well, at the Championships and FO. I give the most credit to ASV for that Montreal win (even though as far as I know Seles had a foot injury that week, but I don't want to go into that Graff thing "she was injured, cause she lost").

After all, Sanchez' game suited Seles just fine.
Robert1 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Jul 24th, 2004, 09:01 AM   #17
country flag Andy T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Under Carlos Moya
Posts: 4,954
Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute Andy T has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
That's true, Jorge. Even though Monica and Arantxa seem to get on well, I will never forget the Hamburg ceremony 1993 when Sanchez thanked the sponsors 2 seconds (and in the same sentence) after a dry "hope Monica is fine again soon". She and Martinez were against the no.1 ranking in 1995 as well... The hypocritical way almost all of those players behaved after the stabbing up to the comeback (I exclude Navratilova, Sabatini, Sukova, M.Fernandez) made me think like their all just a bunch of rotten bi*****.
In the endless Graf-Seles feud, Arantxa gets off lightly. It is highly likely that it was her career more than any other which benefitted from Monica's removal from the game. Steffi, after all, was already an established great by 93. Arantxa gained millions in winnings and became far more marketable as the main opposition to Steffi as a result of Hamburg 93 and may (I'd be tempted to say "would" rather than "may" but we'll never know) never have got to #1. Her attitude regarding the co-ranking was very low and it would have been poetic justice if Mon had annihilated her at RG in 98.
__________________
Traits Gandhi considered the most spiritually perilous to humanity.
*Wealth without Work * Pleasure without Conscience

*Science without Humanity *Knowledge without Character

*Politics without Principle *Commerce without Morality

*Worship without Sacrifice
Andy T is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24th, 2004, 11:58 AM   #18
country flag Robert1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,667
Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light
The justice is that Sanchez is forgotten in the record books even though having been number 1. Seles isn't.
Robert1 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24th, 2004, 02:44 PM   #19
country flag raquel
Senior Member
 
raquel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Legendary!
Posts: 7,115
raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
Yes, but after all, it didn't work against Monica. I mean, if Monica played her best ASV couldn't see a light at all. If Monica played badly, it was close and usually Monica won anyway.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
ASV won 3 times, all 3 times Seles blew a lead and was physically and mentally not there. Well, at the Championships and FO.
Seles seemed mentally and physically OK thrashing world number 1 Hingis two days before the Arantxa match. Also, Seles led by a break in the first set in the French final and that was the only time she led the whole match. The Championships match I read that Seles got increasingly tired as the macth went on so maybe there she was not physically 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
I give the most credit to ASV for that Montreal win (even though as far as I know Seles had a foot injury that week, but I don't want to go into that Graff thing "she was injured, cause she lost").
Robert you may as well go into it if that's what you honestly think, it's not a problem. Didn't you know when Arantxa ever beat anyone she "shouldn't have" there is a reason? My favourite on here was when Arantxa beat Chris Evert at the 1988 French. Evert was in her second last year, but did get to the Australian Open final and was the 3rd seed. Arantxa was only 16 but won. Suddenly Chris was too old, was sick, and probably in love again.

I sometimes joke about Steffi's 1989 excuse of her period, however Steffi is not like one or two of her fans - Steffi actually credited Arantxa a few times and always had some nice words for her. Most Steffi fans are great though and the one or two who do, as you say, argue that "she was injured, cause she lost" don't just save that attitude for Arantxa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
After all, Sanchez' game suited Seles just fine.
I agree, and the head to heads prove it in a big way. I am glad Arantxa did get a few wins over Monica - no matter how physically ill or mentally unstable she was at the time.
__________________

raquel is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24th, 2004, 02:47 PM   #20
country flag samn
Senior Member
 
samn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2,965
samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by raquel

I sometimes joke about Steffi's 1989 excuse of her period
Hang on a minute, did Steffi herself ever blame her period for her loss? The way I remember it, the press repeatedly kept asking her why she had left the court at 5-6 in the third set, and she eventually snapped and told them she'd had her period. If anything, that sounds like an explanation for leaving the court, not for losing.
__________________
Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
samn is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24th, 2004, 03:00 PM   #21
country flag raquel
Senior Member
 
raquel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Legendary!
Posts: 7,115
raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute raquel has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
In the endless Graf-Seles feud, Arantxa gets off lightly.
Not always, but lighter than Steffi definitely. I think Steffi should be grateful that Arantxa stepped up and at least competed with her otherwise Steffi's fans really would have to defend her Slam totals. In 1995 and 1996 Arantxa was more competitive in the Grand Slams with Steffi than Monica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
It is highly likely that it was her career more than any other which benefitted from Monica's removal from the game.
True, but what else could she do? You can only beat the players put in front of you, and Monica was sadly not in front of her anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Her attitude regarding the co-ranking was very low and it would have been poetic justice if Mon had annihilated her at RG in 98.
Her attitude was the same as everyone else's including Steffi's I believe, unless Steffi came out and publicly said Seles should be number 1 with her? I guess it would have been poetic justice if Monica beat Steffi in the Slam finals they played after Monica's return too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1
The justice is that Sanchez is forgotten in the record books even though having been number 1. Seles isn't.
That's a bit bitter Robert. Monica is a couple of levels above Arantxa in the all times great stakes but I don't think Arantxa will be totally forgotten. Arantxa won the 1989 French Open against a totally dominant Steffi who had won the last 5 Slams and had won 41 Grand Slam matches she played and then 9 years later won there again against Serena, Davenport and Monica who had beaten Hingis in the semis. In my mind those two Slams either side of Monica's absence shows she was not just someone who could triumph in Monica's absence at the Slams rather than someone, and I hate to say it, but Conchita who didn't handle the extra competition when Monica was around.
__________________

raquel is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24th, 2004, 05:14 PM   #22
country flag samn
Senior Member
 
samn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2,965
samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute samn has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by raquel

Her attitude was the same as everyone else's including Steffi's I believe, unless Steffi came out and publicly said Seles should be number 1 with her?
Graf supported Seles' request for a co-ranking (as #1) and said so.
__________________
Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
samn is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25th, 2004, 07:03 AM   #23
louloubelle
Senior Member
 
louloubelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,673
louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future louloubelle has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by samn
Hang on a minute, did Steffi herself ever blame her period for her loss? The way I remember it, the press repeatedly kept asking her why she had left the court at 5-6 in the third set, and she eventually snapped and told them she'd had her period. If anything, that sounds like an explanation for leaving the court, not for losing.
That's correct - she was being baggered and let fly with the crass comment to get them to shut up. I don't think she used it as an excuse.

ASV was brilliant in the 98 final and needs to be commended for it. Her defensive skills were first rate and she had the ability on that day to put the ball where she wanted it and move it around as Seles was definitely struggling to continue to hit winners constantly. I felt ASV tactics were to keep Seles out there as long as possible and it worked.

It was an emotional time for Seles with her fathers death and everyone wanted her to win because it would've been so right! ASV handled this pressure so well and shows her mental strength because a lesser player would've handed the match to Monica mentally before it begun.
__________________
There's more to life than just being happy.
louloubelle is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25th, 2004, 02:18 PM   #24
country flag Robert1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,667
Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light Robert1 is a glorious beacon of light
On one hand I agree with the French Open finals, Raquel, yes, Seles had beaten Hingis in straight sets, so gamewise she was there. Still I don't think her mind was really like it should be in that final. I think noone, including Monica expected her to get to the finals, and there she was. Playing freely, but for what happened the weeks/months before not that little extra willing to win attitue that Sanchez had that day. I have the Championships match 97 and it's one of the sadest matches I ever seen. Monica looks sooo sad and dissapointed and just frustrated when entering the court, at the time, her father's condition got worse. When the announcer reads down all her success in the past you can read it from her face "what is it all good for" and "these numbers are not what they should be like". It's terrible. She blew a 4:1 lead in the 3rd set.
Robert1 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #25
Joseosu19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 3,420
Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future Joseosu19 has a brilliant future
Re: 1992 Canadian Open - Arantxa Sanchez Vicario d. Monica Seles 6-3, 4-6, 6-4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert1 View Post
Raquel, Hanafan, I saw the match on tele and the difference was (compared to the 2 or 3 other close matches between the 2) that Monica didn't close it out in the third set. After losing the first set and winning the second, the usual pattern seemed to set in. Seles was ahead 4:2 in the 3rd set. But then she didn't close it out, unusual for her back then.
This is wrong. Arantxa was the one who got a bit tight...she took a 3-0 lead in the final set, then started missing a bit and allowed Seles to get back into the match, which Seles took full advantage of, taking a 4-3 lead. But Arantxa toughed it out and found a way to pull out the match.


I know I'm 8.5 years late responding to this, but you seem to be a bit overly biased towards Seles.

Monica owned Arantxa, no doubt, but Arantxa was capable of making Monica work. She flat out beat her in the Canadian Open that year...she hit dozens of drop shots, hoping to pull Monica into the net and it worked. She deviated from that plan once she was up 3-0 in the third...instead playing it safe, but she started hitting dropshots again almost immediately once down again.

And as for Arantxa's "dry" comments after winning in 93 at Hamburg...I don't know what you wanted her to say? It is an award's ceremony...should she have said "I am only here because Monica got stabbed, please take this title from my count and give it to Monica, as well as any other title I should win in her absence". Remember at the time reports were saying that Monica's stab wound was minor and that the recovery time would be very short. No one was able to predict the psychological difficulties it would cause, because it was such a unique (and horrifying) case.


I think Arantxa's inability to be particularly successful against Monica was largely in part to Monica taking the ball so early. Arantxa's game relied on her being able to react and anticipate well enough to get to a vast majority of balls, but Monica robbed ASV of a precious second or so when she struck the ball.
__________________
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario Always #1
Joseosu19 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios