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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:09 AM   #301
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Sometimes,these young teens get one win under the belt,proceed to play over their heads and then ride an emotional wave all the way to the SFs.Would like to think that Caro's broader experience will be one of the factors that lead her to victory tomorrow
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:47 AM   #302
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I will be an interesting match. It's been a while since Caro played someone so young. Vekic has already been in one wta tour final so I think she will give Caro a run for her money.
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #303
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

If what she said in NYTimes is true, and no reason not to believe it, she was tanking matches for over a year, playing around with aggressive shots.
Thats the way it looked to me. She would get to 4-4 , then hit forehands in the doubles alley for no reason.
If she is trying her best now, she still has to show she has it mentally, because losses to Pervak & Sveta look like more mental tanking.
This is a hardcourt major. If she ever wins a major, it will be here or NY.
But she has to show the mental toughness it takes to win a major.
Do the mental work it takes, every round
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 09:35 AM   #304
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
If what she said in NYTimes is true, and no reason not to believe it, she was tanking matches for over a year, playing around with aggressive shots.
Thats the way it looked to me. She would get to 4-4 , then hit forehands in the doubles alley for no reason.
If she is trying her best now, she still has to show she has it mentally, because losses to Pervak & Sveta look like more mental tanking.
This is a hardcourt major. If she ever wins a major, it will be here or NY.
But she has to show the mental toughness it takes to win a major.
Do the mental work it takes, every round
Or almost get to 4-4 but then miss easy over-head shots (Vs Aga) ..

'Tanking' is not the right word, imho. But also from what Piotr has said, it was a year of experimenting.

I suppose the idea was, if Caro started hitting wilder, she would initially hit more winners (Captain Obvious at your service!) and more UE (Captain Obvious stikes again!). BUT .. the working assumption was then, as she grew more 'comfortable' with the new playing style, the number of UEs would decrease to an acceptable level for her new style, acceptable level for the number of W.

The experiment just hasn't worked out .. Now 18 month later, to hit 30 Winners, Caro will still make 60 UEs. And that's not viable.

If they are indeed seriously going back to basics now and develop from there, I personally think, it's the right choice. It was a nightmare of proportions to watch her make 50 UEs pr match.

As much as I get frustrated with her for not taking the chance, when I from my armchair see it being there, I'd rather have she stays competitive and in a match with a UE count of 8 (and similar level W), than be run over and lose with an 'exciting game' and W/UE ration of minus 30.

I can live with expert opinions and GM taunts of being defensive and a /¤!#& pusher and boring and blah blah, as long Caro is winning
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #305
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Tanking is not the right word. She couldnt deal with the pressure of being #1.
Thats probably closer to what happened.
This is a better situation for her. Where she is not expected to win big tournamnets. She can lose early and its no big deal.

This sport is mental, and its tough to stray at the top. Its very similar to Jankovic, and its much easier for them to not be considered a contender at majors, or have to read they are weak #1's.

The important question going forward is: is this what she wants for her whole career, or maybe she cant recapture who she was even if she wanted to.

Thats what we are watching. I think its unfortunate that a player who was #1 by 3000 points and holding 9 titles in July 2011 would be holding no titles in August 2012 while playing a full schedule.
But the pressure of being near the top is tough. Its not easy to be where Vika is now. Or Serena or Maria. The expectations are huge

I dont believe it was experimenting, because then you dont play so recklessly at key moments. Another match would be good if you are experimenting. And it was over a year where she wasnt winning anything. If thats an experiment, it was like putting wings on and jumping off a cliff. Not a good experiment.
I still think this 'experiment' is career threatening. We still havent seen the match after match mental toughness she used to have.
We're going to find out this year and next.
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #306
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Tanking is not the right word. She couldnt deal with the pressure of being #1.
I certainly do not hope that is directly what happened. And I personally do not subscribe to that theory.

However ... one must concede, Team Wozniacki apparently caved in to 'expert' advice in regards to radically dismantle her existing winning playing style and change it into some 'better' and more aggressive.

If that = 'couldn't deal with pressure of being #1', I suppose you are right.
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #307
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

That sounded more insulting to Caro than I meant it.
She was in a high pressure situation and needed a break from it.
I understand that. People were expecting her to make deep runs at every tournament.
Maybe taking a year where she isnt fighting and fighting will help her down the road.
Its very hard to predict the future. She needed a mental break. It was clear to see something wasnt right for a while now.
It is tough to motivate yourself and to execute so precisely at this level.
I'm hoping she does come all the way back. I think she is capable of being a hardcourt slam contender again
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #308
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I think that the loss against Na Li was where things started to change. True, she had a phenomenal run immediately afterwards, roughly from February-April, but she wasn't under the same kind of pressure that she was at the slams. I'm just speculating but I believe that after the loss to Na Li she realised that she had a great game but probably not a great enough game to win a slam. The losses at Roland Garros and Wimbledon obviously didn't help and that may have just made her even more confused about the state of her game. Once she started losing to Roberta Vinci and Christina McHale on hardcourts it was obvious that there were big problems with her game/confidence and despite her win in New Haven and run to the semis at the U.S. Open she has yet to recover.

It really is puzzling how she could once be so dominant against players outside the top twenty/top thirty and now be vulnerable to just about anyone. She may never have been a player that completely dominated, particularly against top ten players, but she was a player that very rarely lost to players outside of the top thirty. She was extremely consistent but that consistency has completely disappeared.
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #309
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Its a good topic, because she went from winning 9 of 19 tournaments to no wins in over a year.
But she is still young, July 1990. Stephens is considered an up and coming young player, she is less than 3 years younger. March 1993. Robson is 3 & 1/2 years younger. January 1994.
So Caroline still has 10 good years left. Now she has a lot less pressure and expectations.
She can change that if she gets to Vika and then beats her. Get the expectation level a lot higher very quickly
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 04:18 PM   #310
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

One possibility that I haven't heard mentioned at all(except by me) is that Piotr and Caro weren't 'caving in to pressure' AT ALL.I think it's FAR more likely that they didn't give a rat's ass what Cronin or other naysayers thought;rather,they were concerned solely with getting Caro over that figurative hump in winning Slams...and they simply deduced that she would inevitably keep hitting that wall at Slams where she ran into a skilled player who was NOT making many errors and that,w/o finding ways to get easy points or finish off critical GPs and BPs,she would invariably lose barring a draw with ideal opponents.

Obviously,they figured that being aggressive and serving better were essential to closing out the sort of matches that Caro had lost but,unfortunately,they did an awful job of implementing changes and are now headed back to the starting point......where they can,hopefully,learn to add in changes gradually and naturally,as past champions have done
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #311
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

[quote=goldenlox;23074346]Tanking is not the right word. She couldnt deal with the pressure of being #1.
Thats probably closer to what happened.


I don't think so,she has enjoyed her time as no.1 although there were many who tried to make it unpleasant for her.

Had she felt too much pressure she'd just do the same as JJ, start playing mediocre to get rid of the ranking as soon as possible.

Caro lost no.1 more naturally, she simply ran out of steam and her game was no longer good enough thanks to the experiments. I think she regretted experimenting with her game later on and now talked about getting the ranking back at some point. (Will be tough though)
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #312
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighterpova View Post
Wozniacki was dreadful, she isn't getting anywhere with this kind of form
yeah, weak performance vs Lisicki. Weak serve. Caroline has to improve vs Vekic
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #313
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Let me clarify one component of the post above: My thinking is that Piotr and Caro made the changes ON THEIR OWN,NOT because they were capitulating to someone else's desires.To offer a simple analogy,let's imagine that I had a psychedically-colored hippie van that my neighbors hated...and they would periodically badmouth the van and express their wish that I replaced it......Then,at some point,the van has major engine problems and it's no longer cost-effective to repair,so I get a new vehicle which happens to be rather normal compared to the hippie van.The neighbors might THINK that I did it for them,yet their previous comments had no bearing on my final decision.

Likewise,I'd call Piotr and Caro two strong people who tend to stand by their principles.They wouldn't go against what they believed just to placate some media asswipes.Heck,Ana is EXTREMELY weak,and yet she has never relented to media advice that she should get a mental coach even though the entire world,including herself,can see that she desperately needs it.Piotr and Caro are almost immeasurably stronger than the Serb weakling.

They simply came to the conclusion,grudgingly,that Caro could never win a late-round Slam match by waiting for a Serena,Clijsters,Henin,etc. to make UEs on key GPs or MPs---and improving the serve was inarguably necessary.As for whether or not Caro should've tweaked her defensive style,that's debatable...but the case for doing so goes far deeper than pacifying critics who,fundamentally,have no desire to help her at all and are merely blabbing their preferences on style of play.It's hard to even fathom that Piotr and Caro would allow popularity with critics to dictate how Caro proceeded with her career.....I just wish that they'd given more thought to how they implemented the changes...such as bringing in a respected coach who had overseen similar changes.He/she would've done so more gradually and effectively,I suspect
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #314
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I agree that Piotr and Caro are not silly to worry about what journalists have to say. I think that when they decided to try something new in 2012 they did consider some of the ideas that were repeatedly mentioned by the likes of Hingis, Navra etc. It's not a sign of weakness when you consider an opinion of someone who excelled in your field,IMO. However, as those experts were always biased against Caro's game and did not give much effort to even analyse her defensive style it was obvious that their ideas probably wouldn't work.
I think that over this season they'll need to work out what is a right balance bwt defense and offense which can help her win. Right now it's more about her heart and fighting spirit. She does not outplay her opponents but 'outwills' them. But that won't work all the time.
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Old Jan 16th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #315
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by marineblue View Post

I don't think so,she has enjoyed her time as no.1 although there were many who tried to make it unpleasant for her.

Had she felt too much pressure she'd just do the same as JJ, start playing mediocre to get rid of the ranking as soon as possible.

Caro lost no.1 more naturally, she simply ran out of steam and her game was no longer good enough thanks to the experiments. I think she regretted experimenting with her game later on and now talked about getting the ranking back at some point. (Will be tough though)
I wish Caroline had stayed with the style that got her to #1. To change her style of play and keep winning was asking an awful lot.
It also broke up the natural progression as you improve at age 21, 22.
It was a big setback, but the longterm effect might not hurt, if she can get the mental part back. A lot of losses affects confidence
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