[mykarma]

Originally Posted by *JR*

Uh, I personally remember the reports of both of these assassinations, and of the Golden Temple massacre preceding Indira being shot to death by Sikh bodyguards, reportedly in revenge (1984). I only dug up a Google linked story because most here are too young to remember.

Why the female suicide bomber killed her son and successor Rajiv in 1991, IIRC the killer was a Tamil (and it happened in Tamil Nadu). Whether it was related to the long Tamil rebellion in Sri Lanka, I don't know. Meanwhile:

Woman gangraped in her home in Uttar Pradesh

Jan 15, 2013

Hathras (UP): A woman was allegedly gang-raped by eight persons after holding her husband hostage in Sikandarau area here in the district, police said today.

No arrests have been made in the case so far. The miscreants barged into the house of Bharat Singh, held him hostage and gang-raped his wife last night, they said.

The victim was later rushed to a hospital where her condition was stated to be stable. Further probes are on, they added.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/woman...sh-589246.html

WTF is going on with these thugs and rape, sounds like a damn epidemic. This is some sick shit and I don't care whose feelings I've hurt for saying it.

My friend from India moved to the west coast but I've got to call her and talk to her to try and understand this shit. I don't believe in the death penalty but these dudes need to get some serious time in the worse conditions and how the victims are treated need to be changed in this society. My Gawd, who can make excuses for this any longer. I am so shocked and this is breaking my heart. Thank goodness the people are bringing this to the forefront and is not letting it die.

[Ashi]

Originally Posted by bulava

What is SDG? I concur partition was a very painful experience. IMO they've gone for their own good and our good too. Try to imagine an undivided nation once; entire world's focus would be on us!

Start the game. I don't subscribe to reintegration either. I don't imagine anything. I talk about the present. The past is to learn from yet people seem to still have such religious intolerance. So colour me peeved. Hence, I chose to respond. But I gave him/her the due freedoom to express his/her views.

Originally Posted by bulava

There is an element of truth in his argument. This got nothing do to with right wing bias or intolerance. I'll tell you why. Are you a student or an employee? In my case, I pay crores of Taxes/year on many parameters (both Individual/Corporate). By question is, why should they get paid at Taxpayers expense when people go to Haj or to Israel but majority gets nothing? Not even a railway fare concession worth of Rs. 500? Try to find out how much money people are paying on them. That's just one case. I could go on writing many more.

Are you serious? Your(and mine) tax money is getting siphoned off at every point and going into the hands of a very few(middlemen and politicians) yet you have an issue with the government funding/making a concession/subsidy on a Haj/ Holy Land pilgrimage(if this concession does exist)? Isn't the government using your money to make arrangements for Hindu Pilgrims for the Kumbh Mela(the greatest accumulation of humanity on the planet)/ Amarnath Yatra and various other pilgrimages to other holy sites?
I know for a fact that there is no such concession/subsidy for a Holy Land Pilgrimage.
I see bias here my friend on your part.

Originally Posted by bulava

Simple. I don't subscribe to such ideologies so no point in engaging in such a deliberation, and to save this thread going tangential. IMO religion/caste perspective is out of the scope.

Save the face here? No. I'm not at all pressed, in fact right now I can leave this place. No compulsion, nothing. Don't get that idea.

You don't subscribe to his ideology, yet you called me religiously biased. Blinkered view IMO. Why pray tell?
I'm don't think there is any need to be pressed either.
Saving face....letting another save face...so on...ho..hum.

[Start da Game]

making arrangements for kumbh mela should be treated level with haj expenses? haha......government literally bears 900 crores($150 millions) every year just for haj pilgrims' flight expenses......

you talk about kumbh mela, just look at this video below......india's top man expressing his grief over kumbh mela not even being treated on par with haj pilgrimage which has a meager 100,000 participation compared to 40 million people in kumbh mela......

http://www.frequency.com/video/kumbh...ed-at/17236910

imagine what amount would be needed if every hindu behaved like a crybaby......

[bulava]

Originally Posted by Ashi

Start the game. I don't subscribe to reintegration either. I don't imagine anything. I talk about the present. The past is to learn from yet people seem to still have such religious intolerance. So colour me peeved. Hence, I chose to respond. But I gave him/her the due freedoom to express his/her views.

Oh Start the game. Sure, every one has freedom of expression.

What present did you talk like? What's happening in India across its vast borders from Bangla, Nepal or Pak? Say, did you know the extent of damage to the economy from counterfeit notes? Or infiltration? Or how would explain the killings of Soldiers? Or Sarpanches? What about 500,000 displaced Kasmiris who are living almost like beggers in Delhi and other parts? What about the recent Assam riots? Try to see the larger picture. This is nothing to do with intolerance. All these are happening to due to a weak country lead by a failing political system, mainly from its vote bank politics.

Originally Posted by Ashi

Are you serious? Your(and mine) tax money is getting siphoned off at every point and going into the hands of a very few(middlemen and politicians) yet you have an issue with the government funding/making a concession/subsidy on a Haj/ Holy Land pilgrimage(if this concession does exist)?

I'm 100% serious. It's about people, not yours or mine. You know how much money Indians pay as taxes? That's why I asked are you a student or an employee.

Is this concession exist? What that suppose to mean? So you too have no idea what's happening in India - many states are suffering from vote bank politics. There can't be any quotas based of religion and caste, especially a quota for jobs. Imagine Govt. asking to me recruit 4% Muslims in my companies? That means I've to forcibly absorb about 50 folks. More religions demand quota sooner or later. Hence I refuse to be a part of this present system and state. Period.

Originally Posted by Ashi

Isn't the government using your money to make arrangements for Hindu Pilgrims for the Kumbh Mela(the greatest accumulation of humanity on the planet)/ Amarnath Yatra and various other pilgrimages to other holy sites?

Kailash Mansarovar is the holiest. Amarnath Yatra is one of them. Kumbh Mela is NOT the holiest pilgrim; only a river pilgrimage on mass numbers. Perhaps you are unaware that all perennial rivers in India has this tradition (once in 12 years). This picture shows river Godavari Pushkaram (2003):



You know what? A few years ago, me and my sister got ZERO concession when we visited Amarnath and Vaishno Devi shrines. On the contrary, many people are being dead or killed every year at Amarnath (ave. 100). What are they spending on? You want me to publish those photos? For the record, we paid for our own accommodation. I'm not complaining and certainly we don't need any discount because we could afford it.

The question is about millions who can't afford paying for paltry sum of Rs. 3,000/- on return-trip family rail fares, not AIR!

Originally Posted by Ashi

I know for a fact that there is no such concession/subsidy for a Holy Land Pilgrimage.
I see bias here my friend on your part.

You know for a fact? Such a blatant lie. Strangely you see bias but I see a clear deviation from the mentioned issues, this contemplates to double standards. It's quite evident you are either unaware of many things or just ignoring them.

Originally Posted by Ashi

You don't subscribe to his ideology, yet you called me religiously biased. Blinkered view IMO. Why pray tell?
I'm don't think there is any need to be pressed either.
Saving face....letting another save face...so on...ho..hum.

If he/she has religious bias then you are no different than him/her. And yet, you talk about saving face...hmmm

I'm ending this deliberation so that members return to thread's topic.

[*JR*]

Originally Posted by Ashi

Are you serious? Your {referring to bulava} (and mine) tax money is getting siphoned off at every point and going into the hands of a very few (middlemen and politicians) yet you have an issue with the government funding/making a concession/subsidy...

In addition to (official) taxes, as Mr. Anna Hazare would remind you:

http://www.ipaidabribe.com

[Ashi]

Originally Posted by bulava

Oh Start the game. Sure, every one has freedom of expression.
What present did you talk like? What's happening in India across its vast borders from Bangla, Nepal or Pak? Say, did you know the extent of damage to the economy from counterfeit notes? Or infiltration? Or how would explain the killings of Soldiers? Or Sarpanches? What about 500,000 displaced Kasmiris who are living almost like beggers in Delhi and other parts? What about the recent Assam riots? Try to see the larger picture. This is nothing to do with intolerance. All these are happening to due to a weak country lead by a failing political system, mainly from its vote bank politics.

I said that Indians are in general very mindful of what others think of them, which you also concur to in this thread. eg. How the western media potrays India. What 'looking at big picture' stuff are you spouting? Or are you alluding to another post?
I know the failure of our political class. But blaming only one community for your woes is never the solution & telling them that they should have gone across the border during partition is disgusting & highly insulting to any Indian citizen. That is my world view.
I have agreed with you about vote bank politics.

Originally Posted by bulava

I'm 100% serious. It's about people, not yours or mine. You know how much money Indians pay as taxes? That's why I asked are you a student or an employee.

Is this concession exist? What that suppose to mean? So you too have no idea what's happening in India - many states are suffering from vote bank politics. There can't be any quotas based of religion and caste, especially a quota for jobs. Imagine Govt. asking to me recruit 4% Muslims in my companies? That means I've to forcibly absorb about 50 folks. More religions demand quota sooner or later. Hence I refuse to be a part of this present system and state. Period.

I never stated that there should be religious quotas. Where have I said that? I posted the point of view of the other side to counter a post I thought was blatantly intolerant. Not vice versa.
Yet you seemed to agree with a part of the post I felt was intolerant.

Originally Posted by bulava

Kailash Mansarovar is the holiest. Amarnath Yatra is one of them. Kumbh Mela is NOT the holiest pilgrim; only a river pilgrimage on mass numbers. Perhaps you are unaware that all perennial rivers in India has this tradition (once in 12 years). This picture shows river Godavari Pushkaram (2003):



You know what? A few years ago, me and my sister got ZERO concession when we visited Amarnath and Vaishno Devi shrines. On the contrary, many people are being dead or killed every year at Amarnath (ave. 100). What are they spending on? You want me to publish those photos? For the record, we paid for our own accommodation. I'm not complaining and certainly we don't need any discount because we could afford it.

You said it yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarnath_Temple
Don't blame the Goverment for everything. I'm sure they do their part for the pilgrims.
Facilities
En route to the cave, various non-profit organizations set up food supply and resting tents called pandals which are available for free to the pilgrims. Near the shrine, hundreds of tents which are erected by locals can be hired for a night's stay. Helicopter services from base camp to Panjtarni (6 km from the cave) are also available from various private operators.[13]
[edit] Security

Every year, thousands of central police and state police personnel are deployed to provide security to pilgrims from potential terror threats. The forces position at various halts and also in the perimeter of the shrine.[14]
[edit] Deaths

Of the 622,000 yatra pilgrims in 2012, one hundred thirty died during the yatra. The major cause is that persons who are not physically fit for the arduous climb, high elevations and adverse weather also undertake the yatra. Some also die in road accidents before reaching the base camp from where the yatra starts. A total of 130 pilgrims died; 88 due to purported health reasons and 42 in road accidents in 2012 pilgrimage that ended on Shravana Purnima (Raksha Bandan) day on 2 August 2012.[15]
[edit] Organisers

Officially, the Yatra is organised by the State Government in collaboration with the Shree Amarnath Yatra trust. The Government agencies provide necessary facilities all along the route during the Yatra period, which includes provision of ponies, supply of power, telecommunication facilities, firewood and setting up of fair price shops
Also, http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/...cle3726644.ece

Originally Posted by bulava

You know for a fact? Such a blatant lie. Strangely you see bias but I see a clear deviation from the mentioned issues, this contemplates to double standards. It's quite evident you are either unaware of many things or just ignoring them.

Yes I do. Link me to where it says that the Govt in all states has a subsidy for Indian christians to visit the Holy Land? Select state govts(TN) give subsidy to garner votes. Every religious community gets their share of subsidy.
Deviate from the topic? I countered a post for religious intolerance, but you mentioned me a couple of times in your posts. If you allude to my posts, expect a reply.

Originally Posted by bulava

If he/she has religious bias then you are no different than him/her. And yet, you talk about saving face...hmmm

I'm ending this deliberation so that members return to thread's topic.

You tacitly support his views by saying 'I'm not defending him or anything'
You have let him/her save face for his views. I called him/her out on it. As simple as it gets.
Thank you very much.

[Ashi]

Originally Posted by Start da Game

making arrangements for kumbh mela should be treated level with haj expenses? haha......government literally bears 900 crores($150 millions) every year just for haj pilgrims' flight expenses......

you talk about kumbh mela, just look at this video below......india's top man expressing his grief over kumbh mela not even being treated on par with haj pilgrimage which has a meager 100,000 participation compared to 40 million people in kumbh mela......

http://www.frequency.com/video/kumbh...ed-at/17236910

imagine what amount would be needed if every hindu behaved like a crybaby......

Here you go.

Eliminate Haj subsidy in 10 years: court

The HinduHaj pilgrims filling the applications at a Regional Passport Office at Secunderabad.
The Supreme Court on Tuesday directed the Centre to gradually reduce the amount of subsidies being given to Haj pilgrims so that within 10 years it is eliminated, and the money is used for the “uplift of the community in education and other indices of social development.”
“We have no doubt that a very large majority of Muslims applying to the Haj Committee would not be aware of the economics of their pilgrimage. And if all the facts are made known, a good many of the pilgrims would not be very comfortable in the knowledge that their Haj is funded to a substantial extent by the government,” said a Bench of Justices Aftab Alam and Ranjana Prakash Desai, before quoting a passage from the Holy Koran.
The court observed that the Haj subsidies had been rising every year, with the increase in air fare and pilgrims.
“We are of the view that Haj subsidy is something that is best done away with,” the Bench said.
The Bench agreed that the subsidy was constitutionally valid but it was very firm that there was no justification for charging the pilgrims a much lower price than even the normal air fares usually charged for a return ticket to Jeddah.
The court also ordered an end to the practice of sending a goodwill Haj delegation.
Leaders hail verdict
There was near-unanimity among the leaders of the political class in welcoming the verdict, with a few even demanding immediate scrapping of the subsidy and suggesting use of the money for the educational needs of Muslims.
“Why wait for 10 years to scrap it. It should be done away with this year itself, because it does not benefit the pilgrims. In the name of giving subsidy, the government has been fooling people till now, for, it has been investing the money in Air India,” said Asaduddin Owaisi of the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM), an ally of the UPA.
Senior BJP leader Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said: “The BJP welcomes the verdict but we are of the opinion that the government should continue to help out the pilgrims with basic services.”
There was no need to club the educational needs of Muslims with the Haj subsidy. “The government should try to implement the schemes for providing scholarship to Muslim girls, which are not getting properly implemented in the first place.”
Communist Party of India leader D. Raja said giving subsidy to any community was a policy decision and the Central government needed to explain its position.
“There have been several court verdicts against the policy decisions of the government and it is for the government to explain,” Mr. Raja said.
Referring to Law Minister Salman Khurshid's reaction that the government was considering the Haj subsidy and discussions had taken place for its rollback, Mr. Raja said this was a “vague” stand.
Zafarul Islam Khan, president of the All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat, an umbrella organisation of several Muslim groups, said: “The so-called Haj subsidy is of no use to the pilgrims. We never asked for it.”

Happy now? Yet the BJP goverment increased the Haj allowance during their tenure. If that isn't ironic I don't know what is.

[Start da Game]

Originally Posted by Ashi

Here you go.
Happy now? Yet the BJP goverment increased the Haj allowance during their tenure. If that isn't ironic I don't know what is.

that still doesn't support your argument......firstly, 10 years is a long time and they will find a way to cancel the judgment and get back the subsidy......usually that's how things work in india......

secondly, even if they somehow eliminate it totally, the court judgment says that the funds should be utilized for upliftment of muslims......so one way or the other muslims are being given additional privileges when millions of hindus are lying below poverty line......

seriously i am disgusted and totally fed up with this "minority" pampering......i feel like spitting on my own nation and people for watching the whole drama saying nothing against it......

[Start da Game]

i have PMed the mod to close this thread......there is really nothing more to discuss about the incident......all the discussions have taken place already.......so this thread is no longer needed and if it is kept open, it will only serve as a base for india-haters to vent their hate on india......

if people want to discuss about socio economic and religious issues, they can open a separate thread......

[mykarma]

Originally Posted by Start da Game

i have PMed the mod to close this thread......there is really nothing more to discuss about the incident......all the discussions have taken place already.......so this thread is no longer needed and if it is kept open, it will only serve as a base for india-haters to vent their hate on india......

if people want to discuss about socio economic and religious issues, they can open a separate thread......

Because people are against the rape of women they're against India? Why don't you ask the woman that just got gang raped in her home if there's nothing else to discuss.

[Start da Game]

Originally Posted by mykarma

Because people are against the rape of women they're against India? Why don't you ask the woman that just got gang raped in her home if there's nothing else to discuss.

then open a separate rape thread to discuss all the rape incidents happening all over the world......no need to prolong this thread with unnecessary talk......let's just shut it and move on......

JR, what's the intention behind this pathetic title change? what do you mean by "the india thread"? that you want people to see india in a negative angle after reading the first few posts of this thread?

mods, please close this thread......

[mykarma]

Originally Posted by Start da Game

then open a separate rape thread to discuss all the rape incidents happening all over the world......no need to prolong this thread with unnecessary talk......let's just shut it and move on......

JR, what's the intention behind this pathetic title change? what do you mean by "the india thread"? that you want people to see india in a negative angle after reading the first few posts of this thread?

mods, please close this thread......

I will say is that the thread has gone off topic and perhaps another one should be created but women's rights in most cases have never been changed without civil disobedience no matter what country it is. In the U.S. we can go back as far as women fighting for the right to vote so what the women in your country is doing is no different than what women all over the world has done and will continue to do. These women and their supporters have the right to fight for the right for women to no longer be victims of physical and mental abuse and they've had enough. Of course it hurts when it's your country but in the world of technology it only helps the cause because without it many abuses wouldn't change. We can go back to the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S., apartheid in S. African, genocide in Southern Sudan and the list goes on.

I'd like to make it clear to you that I have no ill feeling nor am I judging your country any more than I judge my own and am sorry that you're taking it personal because all countries have done and or currently doing things that embarrass their citizens but I will not stop fighting for the rights of people that are being disenfranchised.

[Lesborah]

I read the police in Mumbai was giving fines to lonely women and young couples strolling outside by night , is that true? WTF !!!!!

[frenchie]

I'm going to India next month

[*JR*]

Originally Posted by mykarma

I will say is that the thread has gone off topic and perhaps another one should be created but women's rights in most cases have never been changed without civil disobedience no matter what country it is....

UR correct. I'm perfectly open to this thread being about rape everywhere, and the Mods can confirm that I had asked after the Ohio rape thread was derailed with posts about the Delhi gangrape for that thread and this one 2B merged; with a title regarding rape and other violence against women.

I'm still open to that, and to the posts ITT (including mine) about "other things Indian" being moved to the (dormant) South Asia thread.