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Old Jan 13th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #286
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Re: India gang rape outrage, and the "big picture"

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Originally Posted by Sam L View Post

All good points but sex-selection abortion is not caused by cultural factors. Unless if you think China and India have the same culture. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion...ticide_1.shtml

It is all economic: "One initiative in the state of Tamil Nadu was taken to attack the underlying economic problems." Dowries are not unique to Indian culture and neither is it the only patriarchal society in the world.

And you can see how the southern states are faring better in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_...g_by_sex_ratio

We are talking about a thousands-year-old culture. Don't try and paint it with the same brush as what you're painting modern problems with.
And that indeed old culture has its shameful traits; just like the much newer USA does with gun violence. As I told Start da Game ITT, the US posters have never (AFAIK) told foreigners to butt out of threads about that, or other American problems. To cite China sharing some bad traits with India as any sort of rationalization is disgusting.

The positions taken by various Indian posters ITT reminds me of the famous well scene in Lawrence of Arabia, where Sheriff Ali (Omar Sharif) fatally shoots an Arab from the "wrong" caste err clan, for taking water from a well owned by his. So the TE Lawrence played by Peter O'Toole tells him that the Arabs' petty squabbles will have them remain "a silly little ppl".
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Old Jan 14th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #287
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Re: India gang rape outrage, and the "big picture"

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Originally Posted by JN View Post
6 arrested in new rape of a bus passenger in India

By ASHOK SHARMA | Associated Press – 14 mins ago


Associated Press/Altaf Qadri - Indians perform special ritual for the soul of a gang rape victim in New Delhi, India,
Thursday, Jan. 10, 2013.

NEW DELHI (AP) — Police said Sunday they have arrested six suspects in another gang rape of a bus passenger in India, four weeks after a brutal attack on a student on a moving bus in the capital outraged Indians and led to calls for tougher rape laws.

Police officer Raj Jeet Singh said a 29-year-old woman was the only passenger on a bus as she was traveling to her village in northern Punjab state on Friday night. The driver refused to stop at her village despite her repeated pleas and drove her to a desolate location, he said.

There, the driver and the conductor took her to a building where they were joined by five friends and took turns raping her throughout the night, Singh said.

The driver dropped the woman off at her village early Saturday, he said.

Singh said police arrested six suspects on Saturday and were searching for another.

Gurmej Singh, deputy superintendent of police, said all six admitted involvement in the rape. He said the victim was recovering at home.

The deadly rape of a 23-year-old student on a New Delhi bus in December set off an impassioned debate about what India needs to do to prevent such tragedies. Protesters and politicians have called for tougher rape laws, police reforms and a transformation in the way the country treats women.

"It's a very deep malaise. This aspect of gender justice hasn't been dealt with in our nation-building task," said Seema Mustafa, a writer on social issues who heads the Center for Policy Analysis think tank.

"Police haven't dealt with the issue severely in the past. The message that goes out is that the punishment doesn't match the crime. Criminals think they can get away it," she said.

In her first published comments Sunday, the mother of the deceased student said all six suspects in that case, including one believed to be a juvenile, deserve to die.

She was quoted by The Times of India newspaper as saying that her daughter told her that the youngest suspect had participated in the most brutal aspects of the rape.

Five men have been charged with the student's rape and murder and face a possible death penalty if convicted. The sixth suspect, who says he is 17 years old, is likely to be tried in a juvenile court if medical tests confirm he is a minor. His maximum sentence would be three years in a reform facility.

"Now the only thing that will satisfy us is to see them punished. For what they did to her, they deserve to die," the newspaper quoted the mother as saying.

Some activists have demanded a change in Indian laws so that juveniles committing heinous crimes can face the death penalty.

The names of the victim of the Dec. 16 attack and her family have not been released.

The physiotherapy student died from massive internal injuries in a Singapore hospital where she was sent for emergency treatment.

AP (http://news.yahoo.com/6-arrested-rap...093824392.html)


Sounds like business as usual, as far as the rapists are concerned.
Start Da Game will say the woman should not have taken the bus with all men aboard
What India society would come to if women can't even trust their men in public?

CNN Erin Burnet as her guest, Freida Pinto, who starred in Slumdog Millionnaire; she is going to talk about her own experience

She said when she was growing up in India, whenever she reads the paper, there was a case of rape and she fears she might be a victim.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #288
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
oh i see.....
You must think this is a joke.
Editing my post like that?
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 07:46 AM   #289
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Re: India gang rape outrage, and the "big picture"

no update about the trial?
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 09:15 AM   #290
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
<snip>
You went on to to criticize the US for all the wrong it did around the world.
As usual one more lie from you. I never criticized the US for all the wrong in this world, but only certain foreign policies which affects many parts of the world. Example, Terrorism. Now don't pretend where I'm pointing at...
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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
<snip>
But you have to balance it with the lives of real humans.
I don't get what you were blabbering about. BTW, are there unreal humans living on Earth

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
I don't know of many US posters on this site who are so sensitive of external criticism coming from non-American that they will assign ulterior motive to their argument criticizing the USA.

In fact, many American agree with some of your criticism of US, and you will find them joining you if you bring them in the right context; not as tic-for-tac.
Are you an American in the first place? It's got nothing to do with sensitivity. I always deliberate about the hypocrisy they practice by hiding their own backyards (not only the US, but a section of nations). Example, projecting India as a poor country. What about the 15% poverty breading inside the Superpower or let's take 100,000 rapes (refer the American Progress article)?

Truth is many Americans DO NOT like the criticism directed at the US. Engagement on their rape thread proves my point.

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
You see yourself as being squarely in camp of Russia/China in a geopolitical world and I have no issue with that.
But I can't sit here and pretend it does not color your argument, example being you see any criticism of Russia or China as an attempt to show them in bad light.
I don't belong to ANY camp. I'm in favor of all nations except some rogue nations, one is my neighbour. Not China.

Let's leave it here because I'm not derailing this thread any further by getting into irrelevance.

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
In this discussion, you display the tendency Ashi described in her post below.
Nice try (it's one of the crooked methods British practiced to expand into India, and went on to colonize the nation for a long time). For the record, I'm least obsessed what you/anyone think about me or my nation.

My fundamental point is about the prejudice and propaganda used against big nations by certain countries and/or sections of media such as BBC with racist and superiority tones. Example, look at how Russians are portrayed as bad guys in many US movies/soaps or Indians as poor/dark/snake charmers etc or Chinese as copy cats/thieves etc. If you folks can't comprehend what I'm emphasizing then I can't help for your aberration.

Also I discern that Ashi referring to lame Khap diktats against women. IMO they must be disbanded, but most Indian politic system (say Uttar Pradesh Govt) is spineless to act against them. You do some homework before jumping the gun!

However, if Ashi generalized (as a nation) not to have any family values, respect, unity, zeal etc then she is wrong on this one because no nation could be built/developed/propelled into the top league without nurturing its characteristics.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 09:21 AM   #291
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Re: India gang rape outrage, and the "big picture"

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Originally Posted by Miranda View Post
no update about the trial?
January 17 for scrutiny of documents
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report...uments_1788929
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 09:51 AM   #292
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
<snip>
using the word "tolerate" , "pampered" to refer to the presence other Indians who are different from shows contempt for them.
Not only you seem to be treating them as "guests", "the other", but you don't view them as equal.
This is not in defense of Start da Game at all. Actually, I'm very annoyed why Religion got dragged into this thread.

I strongly suggest not to jump into such topics without getting into depth. You hardly aware of what's happening inside the US, let alone pondering about what's happening inside my country.

I'm surprised even Ashi displayed religious bias/ignorance. Nevertheless, I don't take any sides. Present Reservation model is a farce and irrelevant, especially I'll never agree a quota based on religion. There must be only one Reservation based on economic/prosperity scale/points. Yes, little chunks of quota for Sports and Physically challenged. That's it. No religion or caste nonsense.

Putting it as minorities still feel marginalized is incorrect. Fact is, hundreds of millions are marginalized irrespective of religion/caste/sex. Also on the other hand, some religious groups/institutions are taking advantage of India's poverty levels. With plenty of funds in their hands (abroad sources), they are actively involved in religious conversions. I myself caught four NGOs on the spot in the last 2 years (2 in schools, others at work places of other companies). But trials are very slow. These conversions are spreading just like a Cancer, so this must be eradicated. Who will do it? NONE from the Govt. Most chilling fact is, the ex Chief Minister's family are into conversions business! Some people like me taking risks by going against them. IMO this entire political system must go because no one can lead this country. Perhaps we need a democratic hybrid mix derived from American/Chinese models.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 10:03 AM   #293
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Except Indira Gandhi got offed by her Sikh bodyguards, ova the Golden Temple massacre
This is what happens when one relies mostly on Google instead of getting into facts. Truth is, both Mrs. Gandhi and her Son (Prime Ministers) have lost their lives because they played dangerous games. They mostly engaged in doing wrong things to *achieve* power (politics) or faulty policies.

See what happened now? Bangladeshis are an ungrateful lot and a nuisance to this country (like Mexicans sneaking into the US). Sri Lankans ditched India in favor of China because of Tamil factor!

Do you remember this one? Same happened to Benazir Bhutto too (giving birth to Taliban snakes). Also to the US (toyed with Laden). What all these teach us?
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #294
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by Talula View Post
The point I'm trying to make is that I feel the Western media is hypocritical. It's as if they're saying this case is unique and unique to 'foreign' cultures, and yes, it's awful, but why is it getting the exposure it is? Women are raped everyday in the UK with no reporting in the media. There's just something about this level of exposure I'm concerned about.
Nothing much to add except: hitting the nail on the head

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Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
So what is your point?

Would you have preferred that this news not be reported in the UK because they have rape there too?

Indian people drove this news, not the UK press nor any other western countries media.
Indians are saying to their goverment and politicians that they have had enough ; and powerful grassroot social movement of consciousness raising is taking hold.
By anyway you slice it, this is big news.

Other countries, suffering from this malady in silence because of the same structural problem and social stigma associated with rape, can learn from
You didn't get her/his point? Struggling hard, isn't it? Was it something like some food caught in your throat? You should ask these questions:

How many are reported in media in the US/UK etc compared to India? NO
Do channels hijack their nations for 4 weeks? NO
Do people in those countries debate freely (deprecate) by comparing the stats with India like they do it with poverty? NO

Other countries can learn? Really? (not sarcastic, but I don't believe it).
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #295
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Originally Posted by bulava View Post
Also I discern that Ashi referring to lame Khap diktats against women. IMO they must be disbanded, but most Indian politic system (say Uttar Pradesh Govt) is spineless to act against them. You do some homework before jumping the gun!

However, if Ashi generalized (as a nation) not to have any family values, respect, unity, zeal etc then she is wrong on this one because no nation could be built/developed/propelled into the top league without nurturing its characteristics.
Yup, no political parties will go against the Khap Panchayat's because they constitue the votebank. If you cross them, you lose your votebank. That's why barely a few kilometres from Delhi you have these social councils issuing diktats such as honor killings with impunity. Even the supreme court of India hasn't been able to curb them.
Thankfully, by a stroke of genius B.R Ambedkar( Drafter of the Indian Constution) way way in 1950 had predicted this very scenario and thus the phasing out of the Panchayati Raj system. But they still rule the social heirarchy with an iron fist in the villages.
I don't get what you mean by the rest. Please quote my posts if you are going to allude to my posts. Thanks.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 11:46 AM   #296
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulava View Post
I'm surprised even Ashi displayed religious bias/ignorance. Nevertheless, I don't take any sides. Present Reservation model is a farce and irrelevant, especially I'll never agree a quota based on religion. There must be only one Reservation based on economic/prosperity scale/points. Yes, little chunks of quota for Sports and Physically challenged. That's it. No religion or caste nonsense.

Putting it as minorities still feel marginalized is incorrect. Fact is, hundreds of millions are marginalized irrespective of religion/caste/sex. Also on the other hand, some religious groups/institutions are taking advantage of India's poverty levels. With plenty of funds in their hands (abroad sources), they are actively involved in religious conversions. I myself caught four NGOs on the spot in the last 2 years (2 in schools, others at work places of other companies). But trials are very slow. These conversions are spreading just like a Cancer, so this must be eradicated. Who will do it? NONE from the Govt. Most chilling fact is, the ex Chief Minister's family are into conversions business! Some people like me taking risks by going against them. IMO this entire political system must go because no one can lead this country. Perhaps we need a democratic hybrid mix derived from American/Chinese models.
Hmm no. I was holding up a mirror for SDG. Bringing in the partition into this discussion was highly insensitive to say the least.
Absolutely, yet he only blamed the Muslims for mooching off our country's resources. Get my point.

But I didn't see you call him out on his fundamentalist views. I did. And I don't feel the need to save face here like you have by saying 'not defending SDG'....so on....etc.

When I say marginalised, I meant in the face of fundamentalist views like SDG's.

If they are forced conversions, those involved need to be booked.

Agreed. Our politics is based on religion. BJP has leanings with the Sangh Parivar, the Congress has it's share of pseudo secular propaganda, Bahujan Samaj Party has their caste votebank.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 11:52 AM   #297
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulava View Post
This is what happens when one relies mostly on Google instead of getting into facts. Truth is, both Mrs. Gandhi and her Son (Prime Ministers) have lost their lives because they played dangerous games. They mostly engaged in doing wrong things to *achieve* power (politics) or faulty policies.

See what happened now? Bangladeshis are an ungrateful lot and a nuisance to this country (like Mexicans sneaking into the US). Sri Lankans ditched India in favor of China because of Tamil factor!

Do you remember this one? Same happened to Benazir Bhutto too (giving birth to Taliban snakes). Also to the US (toyed with Laden). What all these teach us?
Guess who first gave tacit support to Bhindranwale before his call for a separate state of Khalistan?. This 'problem' got too big for them. Hence, operation blue star and assisination in revenge for the said massacre.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #298
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by bulava View Post

This is what happens when one relies mostly on Google instead of getting into facts. Truth is, both Mrs. Gandhi and her Son (Prime Ministers) have lost their lives because they played dangerous games. They mostly engaged in doing wrong things to *achieve* power (politics) or faulty policies.
Uh, I personally remember the reports of both of these assassinations, and of the Golden Temple massacre preceding Indira being shot to death by Sikh bodyguards, reportedly in revenge (1984). I only dug up a Google linked story because most here are too young to remember.

Why the female suicide bomber killed her son and successor Rajiv in 1991, IIRC the killer was a Tamil (and it happened in Tamil Nadu). Whether it was related to the long Tamil rebellion in Sri Lanka, I don't know. Meanwhile:

Woman gangraped in her home in Uttar Pradesh

Jan 15, 2013

Hathras (UP): A woman was allegedly gang-raped by eight persons after holding her husband hostage in Sikandarau area here in the district, police said today.

No arrests have been made in the case so far. The miscreants barged into the house of Bharat Singh, held him hostage and gang-raped his wife last night, they said.

The victim was later rushed to a hospital where her condition was stated to be stable. Further probes are on, they added.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/woman...sh-589246.html
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #299
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Hmm no. I was holding up a mirror for SDG. Bringing in the partition into this discussion was highly insensitive to say the least.
What is SDG? I concur partition was a very painful experience. IMO they've gone for their own good and our good too. Try to imagine an undivided nation once; entire world's focus would be on us!

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Originally Posted by Ashi View Post
Absolutely, yet he only blamed the Muslims for mooching off our country's resources. Get my point.
There is an element of truth in his argument. This got nothing do to with right wing bias or intolerance. I'll tell you why. Are you a student or an employee? In my case, I pay crores of Taxes/year on many parameters (both Individual/Corporate). By question is, why should they get paid at Taxpayers expense when people go to Haj or to Israel but majority gets nothing? Not even a railway fare concession worth of Rs. 500? Try to find out how much money people are paying on them. That's just one case. I could go on writing many more.

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Originally Posted by Ashi View Post
But I didn't see you call him out on his fundamentalist views. I did. And I don't feel the need to save face here like you have by saying 'not defending SDG'....so on....etc.
Simple. I don't subscribe to such ideologies so no point in engaging in such a deliberation, and to save this thread going tangential. IMO religion/caste perspective is out of the scope.

Save the face here? No. I'm not at all pressed, in fact right now I can leave this place. No compulsion, nothing. Don't get that idea.
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Old Jan 15th, 2013, 02:25 PM   #300
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Why the female suicide bomber killed her son and successor Rajiv in 1991, IIRC the killer was a Tamil (and it happened in Tamil Nadu). Whether it was related to the long Tamil rebellion in Sri Lanka, I don't know.
Yep. Now try to read more by going back into history - it was his decision to involve Indian Army (read on IPKF) to solve Sri Lanka's domestic problem.
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