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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 05:05 PM   #31
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
Have my tennis intervarsities up in Belfast in a few weeks. Cannot wait.
You better get your alias sorted! Mine's William Orange.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #32
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Re: Belfast riots

I'm sure it's grand my parents used to shop in Belfast in the 80s when it was far more dangerous.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #33
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post

As a side note, I'd love for people to stop referring to N. Ireland as "Ulster."
IIRC about Irish history, ancient Eire was divided into 5 regions, one being Ulster. Except that then it also (approximately) included present day County Donegal and County Clave. Of course if the Bloody Brits had included those 2 in their "new Ulster" foisted upon poor Michael Collins in 1922, it would soon have had a Catholic majority. (Can't be havin' that, Church of England).

SN: Anybody in the media who uses that 6 letter "L word" in front of the proud city name Derry ought 2B kneecapped.

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Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post

You better get your alias sorted! Mine's William Orange.
Anyhow, news update:

BELFAST, Northern Ireland January 8, 2013 (AP)

Northern Ireland police say three officers have been injured in a fifth straight night of street clashes with Protestant extremists opposed to Belfast City Council's decision to reduce its flying of the British flag.

Monday night's violence in Protestant east Belfast broke out soon after the monthly meeting of the Belfast council. Police said they arrested eight suspected rioters.

Inside the council chamber, Catholic politicians who narrowly outnumber Protestants on the council defended their Dec. 3 decision to fly the Union Jack atop city hall only on 18 specific days, not year-round. Scores of Protestant street blockades have followed.

On Monday night about 300 Protestants, many of them draped in British flags, stood peacefully outside city hall. The street clashes started after most walked back into east Belfast.

C'mon cops, beat the fuck outta them!
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #34
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Re: Belfast riots

I read that the protestors in Dublin this weekend will be "sarcastically" asking that we take down our flag but it won't actually be flying that day!

I'd be fine with agreeing with them right then and there to only fly the flag 18 days a year just to see what they'd say in response!
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #35
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Re: Belfast riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
IIRC about Irish history, ancient Eire was divided into 5 regions, one being Ulster. Except that then it also (approximately) included present day County Donegal and County Clave. Of course if the Bloody Brits had included those 2 in their "new Ulster" foisted upon poor Michael Collins in 1922, it would soon have had a Catholic majority. (Can't be havin' that, Church of England).

SN: Anybody in the media who uses that 6 letter "L word" in front of the proud city name Derry ought 2B kneecapped.



Anyhow, news update:

BELFAST, Northern Ireland January 8, 2013 (AP)

Northern Ireland police say three officers have been injured in a fifth straight night of street clashes with Protestant extremists opposed to Belfast City Council's decision to reduce its flying of the British flag.

Monday night's violence in Protestant east Belfast broke out soon after the monthly meeting of the Belfast council. Police said they arrested eight suspected rioters.

Inside the council chamber, Catholic politicians who narrowly outnumber Protestants on the council defended their Dec. 3 decision to fly the Union Jack atop city hall only on 18 specific days, not year-round. Scores of Protestant street blockades have followed.

On Monday night about 300 Protestants, many of them draped in British flags, stood peacefully outside city hall. The street clashes started after most walked back into east Belfast.

C'mon cops, beat the fuck outta them!
If they were catholic protesters you would condemn the police attacking the rioters, as they are Protestant you want the police to "beat the fuck outta them." Interesting. So your complaints about prior police brutality are hollow.

Who do you think would gain most from a United Ireland? It's not Ireland, suddenly landed with all Northern Ireland's endless problems, the big benefit would be mainland Britain, finally free of this drain on our money, drain on the blood of our soldiers and innocent citizens, free of the endless one sided blame for absolutely everything.

Far more mainland Brits want a united Ireland than it to remain part of the UK.

But one thing, no compensation unless the IRA pay out for all of their victims too. For all the bombs placed in our parks, pubs, shopping centres and city streets.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #36
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Re: Belfast riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halardfan View Post
Who do you think would gain most from a United Ireland? It's not Ireland, suddenly landed with all Northern Ireland's endless problems, the big benefit would be mainland Britain, finally free of this drain on our money, drain on the blood of our soldiers and innocent citizens, free of the endless one sided blame for absolutely everything.
Don't you think JR is baiting you, Halardfan?

Also, I doubt the blame would stop with a pullout. It might be lessened but it wouldn't stop altogether.

Also, do you have a problem with the Bloody Sunday tribunal and the money paid to the victims' families?
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #37
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Re: Belfast riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halardfan View Post
If they were catholic protesters you would condemn the police attacking the rioters, as they are Protestant you want the police to "beat the fuck outta them." Interesting. So your complaints about prior police brutality are hollow.

Who do you think would gain most from a United Ireland? It's not Ireland, suddenly landed with all Northern Ireland's endless problems, the big benefit would be mainland Britain, finally free of this drain on our money, drain on the blood of our soldiers and innocent citizens, free of the endless one sided blame for absolutely everything.

Far more mainland Brits want a united Ireland than it to remain part of the UK.

But one thing, no compensation unless the IRA pay out for all of their victims too. For all the bombs placed in our parks, pubs, shopping centres and city streets.
And the same goes for all the unarmed catholics who were shot dead by British soldiers despite being unarmed and often not even part of the riots taking place. For the people with no connections to the IRA who were jailed without reason. And then the British government covered it all up for years and when the truth came out they decided no disciplinary action would be taken.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #38
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by Asherahpova View Post
And the same goes for all the unarmed catholics who were shot dead by British soldiers despite being unarmed and often not even part of the riots taking place. For the people with no connections to the IRA who were jailed without reason. And then the British government covered it all up for years and when the truth came out they decided no disciplinary action would be taken.
Yes, you agree with me then? Sympathy and help for victims on all sides. Not one side alone.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 09:19 PM   #39
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Re: Belfast riots

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
Don't you think JR is baiting you, Halardfan?

Also, I doubt the blame would stop with a pullout. It might be lessened but it wouldn't stop altogether.

Also, do you have a problem with the Bloody Sunday tribunal and the money paid to the victims' families?
Bloody Sunday was a shameful event, but it can't be detached from other shameful events on all sides. Simply I say if there is to be truth and blame for the wider conflict let it be spread around. The IRA must accept it share of the blame.

Yes JR is baiting me, but blame him for that, take it up with him. All his John Bull crap.

My position is moderate...to spell it out...

I want a united Ireland as soon as possible, providing it can be achieved in a peaceful way.

I accept that previous British governments should shoulder significant blame for the mess of Northern Ireland.

I loathe the Loyalist rioters, I strongly dislike the Orangemen, hate Paisley and his bigoted movement.

But I have at least as much contempt for the IRA. Who were cold blooded callous murderers, who sometimes packed their bombs with nails for extra effect, who planted bombs and killed countless innocents.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #40
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Re: Belfast riots

On the whole, The Republic of Ireland does not give a shit about a "United Ireland" anymore. There's a myriad of other issues that a lot more topical really, and I can't imagine that this one is ever going to come back to the forefront of public thinking ever again.

And far too much time has elapsed for the cultural differences between the two to ever be reassimilated. It would never work.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 10:20 PM   #41
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by Halardfan View Post

...My position is moderate...to spell it out...

I want a united Ireland as soon as possible, providing it can be achieved in a peaceful way...
Just as the ANC had to reserve the right to use violence to end apartheid in South Africa, so did the Irish nationalists. Two nice (moderate) women in Northern Ireland shared the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize, for working accross the sectarian divide, as described on the Nobel website: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...laureates/1976. It amounted to nothing, until the 90's talks were started with the '94 ceasefire, and Bill Clinton giving terrorist Gerry Adams a US visa).

In terms of your quoted proviso, neither you nor I have a right to dictate how its achieved; its their country, not yours or mine. As both of ours continually learn the bitter price of trying to impose "our ways" on (now Afghanistan, with Iraq still unstable) I'm not willing to still try to... or 2B silent while Britain does, even indirectly. BTW, I (an agnostic) don't give a FF what either side's religion is, I'm just "rooting for" the end of outside assertions of continued sovereignty.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 11:10 PM   #42
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Just as the ANC had to reserve the right to use violence to end apartheid in South Africa, so did the Irish nationalists. Two nice (moderate) women in Northern Ireland shared the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize, for working accross the sectarian divide, as described on the Nobel website: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...laureates/1976. It amounted to nothing, until the 90's talks were started with the '94 ceasefire, and Bill Clinton giving terrorist Gerry Adams a US visa).

In terms of your quoted proviso, neither you nor I have a right to dictate how its achieved; its their country, not yours or mine. As both of ours continually learn the bitter price of trying to impose "our ways" on (now Afghanistan, with Iraq still unstable) I'm not willing to still try to... or 2B silent while Britain does, even indirectly. BTW, I (an agnostic) don't give a FF what either side's religion is, I'm just "rooting for" the end of outside assertions of continued sovereignty.
For the IRA men not to feel guilt for their crimes they have to deride those who worked peacefully in their own communities. Without the SDLP we would not have got as far as we have. Without the IRA we would have got here sooner. Their murder and mayhem only made it harder.

Regardless, we want the same thing, a united ireland. But your idea wouldnt work it would lead to the collapse of the peace process. The peace process is the only realistic avenue to a peaceful, united Ireland one day.
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #43
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by Viktymise View Post
On the whole, The Republic of Ireland does not give a shit about a "United Ireland" anymore. There's a myriad of other issues that a lot more topical really, and I can't imagine that this one is ever going to come back to the forefront of public thinking ever again.

And far too much time has elapsed for the cultural differences between the two to ever be reassimilated. It would never work.

A - 2016-2022 will have a series of 100 year anniversaries, in the past anniversaries have seen spurts in Republicanism

B - Most Irish people in a recent poll still identify as Republican

C - East and West Germany were also thought to be too different, same with the 2 Korea's, however why should they not also reunify. As I said Dublin and Cork don't have the same culture so why should Dublin and Belfast.

Its typical for people from the far South to dismiss Irish unity, because well it doesn't suit them but in border counties notably Louth and Donegal its still some what present.

The fact Irish people will actually roll over on this issue is a representation of how they roll over on anything and are the most passive and apathetic people in Europe if not possibly the world.

The other issues that you mention Irish people clearly don't care about either or they'd engage in actual social mobilisation such as mass protests.

People here are so lazy
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Old Jan 8th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #44
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Re: Belfast riots

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Originally Posted by KournikovaFan91 View Post
A - 2016-2022 will have a series of 100 year anniversaries, in the past anniversaries have seen spurts in Republicanism

B - Most Irish people in a recent poll still identify as Republican

C - East and West Germany were also thought to be too different, same with the 2 Korea's, however why should they not also reunify. As I said Dublin and Cork don't have the same culture so why should Dublin and Belfast.

Its typical for people from the far South to dismiss Irish unity, because well it doesn't suit them but in border counties notably Louth and Donegal its still some what present.

The fact Irish people will actually roll over on this issue is a representation of how they roll over on anything and are the most passive and apathetic people in Europe if not possibly the world.

The other issues that you mention Irish people clearly don't care about either or they'd engage in actual social mobilisation such as mass protests.

People here are so lazy
1) Spurts in republicanism? More like a few people suddenly latching onto some sentimental fad, before something more zeitgeisty comes along.

2) Like how most Irish people still consider themselves Catholic...

3) But why should they re-unite? It's been nearly 100 years, and people in the Republic are more disinterested in the issue than ever. There is more to lose than to gain. As I've said, trying to reassimilate the two regions back together again would prove extremely tricky; There is still a distinct resentment in Irish culture for British culture, and so why tip the balance? And I hardly think the North Korea/South Korea situation is in any way comparable.

People just aren't interested anymore. It's as simple as that.

And like you said, if Irish people aren't willing to engage in mass protests (even though there have been an increase in the amount of large-scale protests across Dublin city since 2008) over things that actually impact upon their day-to-day lives, then they're hardly going to rally for something like this.
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Old Jan 9th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #45
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Re: Belfast riots

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2) Like how most Irish people still consider themselves Catholic...
The 2 largest opposition parties are both primarily marketed as Republican parties. Even if their policies aren't focused in that direction I hardly imagine either FF or SF will just drop the republican element of the party, because republicanism is unfashionable in some Munster/South Leinster county that has no fucking idea where Derry is on a map, or think Monaghan is Northern Ireland

Bear in mind many in Northern Ireland are 100% Irish citizens and therefore the exact same as anyone born in the Republic and entitled to the same rights so Northern Ireland whether United or not will ALWAYS remain a big part of the political agenda here. Even if FG can't identify on any level with Northern Irish citizens. (Although can they identify with anyone )

Regarding Korea, they were unnaturally divided in the 50s just like Ireland was in the 20s so yes add 30 years and two massively different ideologies and yes its different to Ireland but thats about it.
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