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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #226
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by wild.river View Post
my mom visited a couple of slums in new delhi in the 90s. when this story came out, she said that she wasn't shocked. according to her, men in slums are raised like "animals"...
I don't believe in that "animals" theory because Bombay has bigger slums. Rape stats are less (218 cases) compared to Delhi (568 cases) in 2011. Having said, I understood one critical element very clearly.

Many people are badly affected (on multiple parameters) due to HUNGER. Economic/Income disparity comes next. Other parameters such as Jealousy, Hatred, Revenge etc come into play (most acid attack or young rape victims).

Again, there are exceptions. We see animals in the Women too. Read this:

Mother/Daughter kill stockbroker, cut him into 17 pieces (plot for his 17-crore property aka $3.2 million)!!
http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...ter-shah-first

That's why I profess impartial punishment for either sex.

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Originally Posted by wild.river View Post
you have to be to survive as the lowest denominator in a country of over 1 billion. and the "tough at all cost" mentality can translate into behavior such as this as adults.
This opens up a huge picture. The real India, more than 70% living in semi-urban and rural areas. I say this because there are many poor people living in India in rural/tribal areas where living conditions are far more worse than Metro slum areas. Many Indians living in cities have no idea about them. Example, they literally live with almost 18 hour power cuts compared to 2-4 hours in cities. Many villages have NO power at all let alone pondering about what they eat/drink/wear. See this pic:



This is exactly why I recruit some good numbers (~300 out of 1150 at two locations) from villages and tribal regions. Most of them work in packing section etc. Point is, moving them away from hunger-driven mad and unpredictable life.

I ask everyone here:

Try this experiment. Eat only ONCE per day (not heavy), and continue this trend for a week or 10 days. Then observe the changes inside you. Such things can't be written, only be felt.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #227
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Personally, in general I think Indians are obsessed with what others think about them(as seen in this thread ). 'Reputation', 'Honour', 'Respect', 'Position' etc etc are bandied about like there's no tomorrow. Don't do this/ Don't do that your/family's reputation is at stake. It becomes a part of your psyche.
This is a major reason for unreporting of rape and believe it or not female infanticide. Your manhood is in question if you haven't fathered a son.
Women are considered 'Paraya Dhan'....treasure which is to be given away...so why invest in them anyway. This is how least common denominator think.
Education is key here.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 01:24 PM   #228
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Victim of Indian gang-rape is named

Student's father says he wants her name known, to give courage to other women


Tom Foot
Sunday 06 January 2013

The young Delhi student who was gang-raped and beaten and who subsequently died from her injuries was named late last night by her father as Jyoti Singh Pandev.

Badri Singh Pandey, in an interview with a Sunday newspaper, said he wanted the world to know her real name to give rape survivors courage.

The 53-year-old said: "My daughter didn't do anything wrong. She died while protecting herself. I am proud of her. Revealing her name will give courage to other women who have survived these attacks. They will find strength from my daughter."

Indian law prohibits naming a rape victim unless she authorises it or, if she is dead, her family agrees to it.

More: http://www.independent.co.uk/incomin...0/india-ap.jpg
That's heartbreaking.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #229
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
What? You think Indian women shouldn't go out alone at night?
Have you not seen images of the protesters in India. I think a significant number of Indian women feel that they should be able to go out at night. Why should a woman feel that she needs to stay in at night? Women should do whatever they like without having to fear violence, harassment or even judgement from anyone, male or female.

Also, women go out alone at night in many countries, not just in the west.
that's why rapes happen.......men are stronger than women......that is simply the law of nature.......you or i cannot change it......

a few hundreds of women =/= india......those few hundreds are not from traditional background and are highly influenced by other cultures......when will you guys stop generalizing odd incidents and magnifying certain happenings?
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #230
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Uh, tennisbum and I "turned a blind eye to" nothing in either case, which (as regards the one in India) seemed to drive you nuts. Neither of us would ignore the contributing "cultural factors".... with more detail from me, ala sex selection abortion, and sometimes its "post-birth cousin", female infanticide.

Sure the PC thing is to only call rape a crime of violence and power, but it IS also about sexual gratification; so the "young female shortage" the above have created in large parts of India contribute to the rape stats. Those who refuse 2B silent about these "all too common" things are better friends of potential rape victims there than UR.

tennisbum and I have clear "post trails" here of bashing those elements of American culture that lead to things like school shootings and a host of other social ills. As debopero correctly noted, this should not be turned into a US vs. India thread. Many countries have serious ills, that others can criticize without being "haters".
you can bash your american culture for all i care......i don't give a damn about it anyway because it is beyond repair......all i am saying is that do not make blanket statements knowing nothing about india.......

our culture is different and it would only be blatant ignorance on your part to take everything for granted......

hindu dharma doesn't encourage a woman freaking out alone in the night......you better get that straight......now don't comeback posting pics of a few urban indian woman dancing at midnight in a lounge.......that is not india, you haven't seen nothing......
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
that's why rapes happen.......men are stronger than women......that is simply the law of nature.......you or i cannot change it......

a few hundreds of women =/= india......those few hundreds are not from traditional background and are highly influenced by other cultures......when will you guys stop generalizing odd incidents and magnifying certain happenings?
What does it even mean?
We, women, should be able to live our life THE WAY we want, no matter what our background is. I really don't understand why you brought up the culture card.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #232
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by debby View Post
What does it even mean?
We, women, should be able to live our life THE WAY we want, no matter what our background is.
being a man, i totally wish for that to be possible but this is not an ideal world and is only getting badder by the year......

Quote:
Originally Posted by debby View Post
I really don't understand why you brought up the culture card.
culture card is because some people are still not getting it into their heads about the righteous method of living in india......so the discussion is leading to culture time and time again.......also, hinduism and certain laws of nature go hand in hand......

i don't know about other religions but hindu dharma suggests that man is the sole bearer of all burdens and responsibilities and should give his woman all she wants and keep her happy......

"dharma, artha, kama and moksha"

jai hind!
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #233
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

In response to your previous post. I agree fully with what Debby said and while generalisations are rarely, if ever, helpful, tragic events must always be put under the magnifying glass to root out the source problem. The scrutiny might make you uncomfortable but its needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
you can bash your american culture for all i care......i don't give a damn about it anyway because it is beyond repair......all i am saying is that do not make blanket statements knowing nothing about india.......

our culture is different and it would only be blatant ignorance on your part to take everything for granted......

hindu dharma doesn't encourage a woman freaking out alone in the night......you better get that straight......now don't comeback posting pics of a few urban indian woman dancing at midnight in a lounge.......that is not india, you haven't seen nothing......
So, it's okay for you to make a sweeping statement that American society is "beyond repair" but people are not allowed to pass comments about Indian society. Do you realise that makes no sense? I mean your knowledge of American society seems scant at best but you've made quite a few blanket statements.

Also, if a few urban women go out at night that is part of Indian society. It might not be common but is is part of the fabric of society. You should accept that and you should accept that they can do whatever they like. It's none of your business.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #234
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
In response to your previous post. I agree fully with what Debby said and while generalisations are rarely, if ever, helpful, tragic events must always be put under the magnifying glass to root out the source problem. The scrutiny might make you uncomfortable but its needed.



So, it's okay for you to make a sweeping statement that American society is "beyond repair" but people are not allowed to pass comments about Indian society. Do you realise that makes no sense? I mean your knowledge of American society seems scant at best but you've made quite a few blanket statements.

Also, if a few urban women go out at night that is part of Indian society. It might not be common but is is part of the fabric of society. You should accept that and you should accept that they can do whatever they like. It's none of your business.
Thanks, now I don't have to address that.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 04:33 PM   #235
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwilliams View Post
In response to your previous post. I agree fully with what Debby said and while generalisations are rarely, if ever, helpful, tragic events must always be put under the magnifying glass to root out the source problem. The scrutiny might make you uncomfortable but its needed.



So, it's okay for you to make a sweeping statement that American society is "beyond repair" but people are not allowed to pass comments about Indian society. Do you realise that makes no sense? I mean your knowledge of American society seems scant at best but you've made quite a few blanket statements.

Also, if a few urban women go out at night that is part of Indian society. It might not be common but is is part of the fabric of society. You should accept that and you should accept that they can do whatever they like. It's none of your business.
i said "beyond repair" bearing in mind their gun laws and the growing gun industry which has become an integral part of their economy......it's not really a blanket statement unless they curb the law entirely which is highly doubtful......

i am accepting that those few urban women can do whatever they want in india......they are free to do anything, we are not some islamic country......

all i am saying is that they are at their own risk if they go alone at night......it is simply a telling fact that men are designed stronger by god and nature (or whoever for nonbelievers of god)......there is no guarantee that even the "protectors" and "law makers" will abide by the good because they are also men and can get provoked upon seeing a woman who's alone......

if what you call "true freedom and stuff" ever existed, rapes would have stopped happening long ago everywhere in the world......but that's only in an ideal world.......

that's why i keep getting back to cultural argument and hinduism......
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #236
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Originally Posted by bulava View Post
I don't know about you but I see plenty of people like tennisbum who are driven by their own agendas or just to show big nations (India/China/Russia etc) in poor light by ignoring their own backyards. Example, read this one:
I think you are mistaken, I have no agenda.

There have been a few discussion where you have leveled stinging criticism of the West and the US in particular.
Some of them I agree with, for the ones I do not agree, I did not go look for stats on India as a rebuttal.


I believe your mentioning of China/Russia refers to the discussion about Russia veto against the UN resolution that would have taken stronger measures against Syrian government.

At the time, I argued that they should not have vetoed the resolution because the conflict need to stop. And pressure generated by the sanction would have brought the Syrian government to negotiate a more peacful resolution to the crisis
You, on the other hand, thought the US and the West had no right to interfere in the internal affair of a sovereign country.


You went on to to criticize the US for all the wrong it did around the world.
My concerns was driven by the worsening humanitarian crisis and how to stop it.


Fast-forward to today, Syrian had gotten much worse; since our discussion, several more people have died, more have been displaced.
Russia has come to recognize the new reality and has concluded the situation to be untenable and is looking for a way out of crisis, but they don't know how


I know you were arguing on principles, and I respect that. But you have to balance it with the lives of real humans.


I don't know of many US posters on this site who are so sensitive of external criticism coming from non-American that they will assign ulterior motive to their argument criticizing the USA.
In fact, many American agree with some of your criticism of US, and you will find them joining you if you bring them in the right context; not as tic-for-tac.


You see yourself as being squarely in camp of Russia/China in a geopolitical world and I have no issue with that.
But I can't sit here and pretend it does not color your argument, example being you see any criticism of Russia or China as an attempt to show them in bad light.

In this discussion, you display the tendency Ashi described in her post below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashi View Post
Personally, in general I think Indians are obsessed with what others think about them(as seen in this thread ). 'Reputation', 'Honour', 'Respect', 'Position' etc etc are bandied about like there's no tomorrow. Don't do this/ Don't do that your/family's reputation is at stake. It becomes a part of your psyche.
This is a major reason for unreporting of rape and believe it or not female infanticide. Your manhood is in question if you haven't fathered a son.
Women are considered 'Paraya Dhan'....treasure which is to be given away...so why invest in them anyway. This is how least common denominator think.
Education is key here.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #237
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post

you can bash your american culture for all i care......i don't give a damn about it anyway because it is beyond repair......all i am saying is that do not make blanket statements knowing nothing about india.......

our culture is different and it would only be blatant ignorance on your part to take everything for granted......

hindu dharma doesn't encourage a woman freaking out alone in the night......you better get that straight......now don't comeback posting pics of a few urban indian woman dancing at midnight in a lounge.......that is not india, you haven't seen nothing......
Maybe we're making some progress here, because you seem to finally acknowledge that the US posters DO bash American culture where warranted, rather than hide behind "oh, this or that country is worse, so everybody STFU". In terms of women going out alone @ night, poor Jyoti Singh Pandev was with a man, and coming home @ "reasonable hour".

Ms. Pandev was also apparently part-Sikh from her middle name. (Her father Badri Singh Pandey I guess had a Sikh mother, making Jyoti 1/4 Sikh). Anyhow, the % doesn't matter. Are ethnic minorities subject to "the tyranny of the majority"? For example, should non-Muslim women have to wear headscarves in predominantly Islamic areas?
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 06:05 PM   #238
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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Maybe we're making some progress here, because you seem to finally acknowledge that the US posters DO bash American culture where warranted, rather than hide behind "oh, this or that country is worse, so everybody STFU".
when did i say that us posters bashing their own culture gives them right to speak about others? all i did was voice against unnecessary intervention in indian issues knowing absolutely nothing about india.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
In terms of women going out alone @ night, poor Jyoti Singh Pandev was with a man, and coming home @ "reasonable hour".
you are making that case based on how many incidents? i have hundreds of thousands of examples in india and usa where women were assaulted when they went out alone......

the point i am making is about minimizing the danger while what you are making is about something that the nature itself doesn't approve......

we are living in the kali yuga(fourth and the last in the hindu timeline which spans 432,000 years), the worst of all yugas......what you are asking "freedom at night" was only possible in the first and second yugas "satya yuga" and "treta yuga" when people's minds were 100% clean......that was the time when lord rama ruled and it was believed that people lived with 100% happiness and 0% crime rate......


kali yuga began in 3102 BC in terms of christian calenders......

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
Ms. Pandev was also apparently part-Sikh from her middle name. (Her father Badri Singh Pandey I guess had a Sikh mother, making Jyoti 1/4 Sikh). Anyhow, the % doesn't matter. Are ethnic minorities subject to "the tyranny of the majority"? For example, should non-Muslim women have to wear headscarves in predominantly Islamic areas?
as for she being minority, she is a part sikh and sikhs are given equal respect......most often in india, minorities are pampered and hindus are neglected based on the exaggeration of the hindu principle "sarva dharma samabhava" (treating all dharmas equally)......

i am betting that nobody tolerates minorities as much as we indians do.......if we were as adamant as islamic countries or even some western countries, imagine what 100 crore hindus can do to the minorities......
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #239
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Re: Ohio Rape: High School Students Joke About Rape In Leaked Video !

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as for she being minority, she is a part sikh and sikhs are given equal respect......most often in india, minorities are pampered and hindus are neglected based on the exaggeration of the hindu principle "sarva dharma samabhava" (treating all dharmas equally)......

i am betting that nobody tolerates minorities as much as we indians do.......if we were as adamant as islamic countries or even some western countries, imagine what 100 crore hindus can do to the minorities......
You are condescending, disrespectful to you fellow Indian citizens.


Do you realize using the word "tolerate" , "pampered" to refer to the presence other Indians who are different from shows contempt for them.
Not only you seem to be treating them as "guests", "the other", but you don't view them as equal.

And this sentiment has permeated many of your posts.


You claim you defend India, but you are embarrassing Indians by your neanderthal way o f thinking.


As posters after posters have shown, it is tedious to engage you.


BTW, having a vigorous debate is not the same as bashing.
We Americans are used to it, and never object to non-Americans joining in.


In fact, some of us are curious to know how certain aspect of the American politics is perceive elsewhere.; so we welcome participation from anywhere w/o checking passport at the door or asking them to sign confidentiality agreement that they will NOT be critical of the USA.
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Old Jan 7th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #240
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

i don't think tennisbum or other posters are trying to put India down and ignoring the problems in their own countries. I think some Indian posters are just too sensitive. Rape is a crime, just like robbery or gun shooting. All of us are free to express our opinion and show our sympathy. This thread is about the rape, so why to talk about gun shooting? You can talk about it in other thread.

If we can only express opinion about crimes in other countries only after ALL the problems in our own countries have been solved, that would mean only posters that belong to the same countries where the crimes are involved can post, very unreasonable. There are also lots of horrible crimes/uneasonable acts made by the Chinese government happened in China, just like making tainted milks for babies or the lack of human rights. And if other non-Chinese posters criticised these people/the Chinese government/tradition, I would not intervene them, coz these Chinese are really human scums and the Chinese government was really wrong, I won't deny an obvious fact.
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Last edited by Miranda : Jan 7th, 2013 at 06:12 AM.
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