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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 01:44 AM   #211
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
For posters who were trying to pin rape on slums and the poort, here is politican who just rape a woman.

CNN correspondent in India is reporting that, before the rape of the medical student that provoke the demonstration, rape by politician and law enforcement is always swept under the rug.

IN addition to intimidation by politicians and law enforcement officials, there is also a stigma associated with rape in the general population.
Hence, rape is under reported.

Bikram Singh Brahma is a poor example based on the reporting.

It looked like quite a few Indians became 'rape' experts overnight.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 03:01 AM   #212
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

His boyfriend speaks out today
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 03:01 AM   #213
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...246097/1/.html
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 04:58 AM   #214
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?


Exclusive interview with the only witness in the case.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 10:48 AM   #215
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by Ashi View Post
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/conquering-the-fear-of-the-setting-sun/article4269936.ece?homepage=true

Conquering the fear of the setting sun

Ravinder Kaur






TOPICS

The fight against rape DelhiNew Delhi
crimesexual assault & rape
social issue



The struggle for something as basic as equal access to public spaces as men at all hours is an everyday ordeal that women without resources feel more acutely

One of my distinct memories of growing up in Delhi involves the everyday spectre of a setting sun. My mother, worried about my safety when I started at university in the early 1990s, made me promise that I would always return home before dark. The home-before-sunset wasn’t a rule as such but a ‘safety measure’ that was followed by most of my female friends, acquaintances and neighbours. It was neither questioned nor explained. The routine was so deeply ingrained that rushing home before dark seemed like a matter of commonsense. For most of the female residents of the city, the dying glow in the sky marked the temporal limits before which to conclude their share of public activities. An elderly neighbour used to call it ‘Lakshman Rekha’ — the invisible boundary drawn by Rama’s brother Lakshman to protect Sita — which women must obey for their own safety. It was, as if, an informal state of curfew was imposed daily after sunset on one half of the population.
Curfew
The brutal gang rape and eventual murder of a young woman in Delhi two weeks ago have tragically fore-grounded this state of curfew and question of women’s full right to access public spaces. More importantly, it has disclosed not only the gendered but also the classed nature of denial of this right. The section of female population that is most dependent on public goods such as means of transport is also the more underprivileged and vulnerable one. These women can neither retreat into the increasingly privatised world of the mobile middle class — mobile in every sense of the word — nor can they ‘opt-out’ of public services whenever they choose to. At a moment when public participation and prominence of women are growing in a range of fields, it has become possible to imagine the irrelevance of moral codes of patriarchy, especially in urban contexts. But what is central to this imagination is the access to mobility, including mobility in its most mundane form: physical mobility that allows one to travel from one place to another. A large population of women who are outside the orbit of middle class affluence, experience the lack of safe means of transport as suspension of their public movement after dark. The curfew may or may not always result from imposition of patriarchal values, but it surely emanates from the lack of women’s safe access to public goods such as buses and local trains. Thus, far from being an elite preoccupation, the struggle for something as basic as having equal access to public spaces as men at all hours is an everyday struggle that women without resources feel more acutely than their privileged counterparts.
Class, gender and mobility
These connections between class, gender and mobility in public spaces became apparent in the death of the unnamed young woman. Even as outrage and swift condemnation of this crime became widespread, the social media was astir with a cacophony of voices. The expression of sympathy was mixed with questions as to why she was travelling late at night (even when escorted) while others flagged her ill-judgment at not having taken enough safety precautions in a city termed as the ‘rape capital.’ In some ways, these voices were echoing the logic of the perpetrators — a woman who has transgressed her boundaries and risked venturing into a space that she is not supposed to be in is a fair game. Even while empathising with her, some commentators on various online discussions could not understand why the couple chose to take a bus home at that late hour. The fact that most likely they did not have a choice did not even occur as a possibility. Probably the middle class readers of English language newspapers could not really imagine an evening out predicated on the logistics of unreliable means of public transport.
The moment the news of the gang rape was broken in the media was also the moment of, what we may call, ‘class confusion,’ among commentators, reporters and eventually protesters. The well meaning observers instantly identified them as belonging to the middle class and underscored that this atrocity may “happen to any of us.” In the absence of details, the markers that helped associate the couple with ‘us’ or the privileged sections of middle class probably were, one, the upscale cinema complex they had visited; two, the location of the bus stop in the heart of South Delhi from where they boarded the bus; and three, the very fact that the young couple had been on an ‘evening out’ seeking entertainment and pleasure. The everyday acts of consumption and pleasure-seeking in the city are what define this actual and aspirational class identity to some extent. The unnamed woman and her companion later turned out to belong to the aspiring section of society whose mobility depends on safe public services. The class confusion, however, did help turn personal empathy into public protests — the kind of public outpouring that remains missing in the rapes of tribals, Dalits and poor women.
The gang rape ultimately opened an almost alien world for the upwardly mobile middle class — a world where it is not possible to simply secede from public goods and services. The city is lived and experienced very differently by men and women, the privileged and the unprivileged. Yet the dominant narrative is woven around the middle class which is said to be the prime motor of growth in a post-reform nation that increasingly sees itself as a global player. The gains of economic liberalisation can be witnessed in new consumption patterns as well as in concrete forms of massive infrastructure building in urban centres. The cityscape itself has altered with new public spaces — shopping malls, multiplex cinemas, coffee shops — that primarily attract youth population. Even as the range and form of public spaces expand, the city itself has become more segregated than ever before. Increasingly, the affluent either inhabit ‘privatised’ realms of new gated colonies or enclose existing residential localities with security and entry restrictions. And all those who can afford tend to use private means of transport rather than public. The introduction of metro rail in Delhi has by no means diminished the status attached to the ownership of a private car.
Near-absence
It is in this new classed realm of public/private discrepancies that we need to address the old questions of gendered ‘curfews’ and the safety of women. In re-formed India, it is not female mobility which is under curfew as such, rather that of underprivileged women whose safe mobility remains at stake. Despite the initial middle class enthusiasm for the shiny metro, the primary users of public transport are largely those who lack resources to enter the private zones of mobility. The near absence of women in buses and metro becomes acutely visible at night time. The curfew — a voluntary imposition — comes into force in these public spaces where few remaining women passengers are either looked at with sympathy (encouraged to ‘hurry home’) or with intimidation. The city turns into an alienating, intimidating place particularly for those outside the comfort zone of private mobility.
Patriarchal values are reinforced by the state which often advises women to refrain from “risky behaviour” — of travelling after dark — for their own good. This ‘advice’ was most recently offered by a high ranking police officer who also suggested that women should not travel at night, and if they do, they arm themselves with chilli powder to combat potential criminals. The Chief Minister of Delhi, Sheila Dikshit, is also known for believing that women should not be so ‘adventurous’ so as to stay outside past midnight. In short, the government perpetuates the idea that the ‘outside’ is not a legitimate space for women to occupy.
The solution for women is obviously to not retreat but occupy the ‘outside’ if the fear of the setting sun is ever to be conquered. This involves as much demanding adequate lights, security in public spaces as challenging patriarchal values. And this also demands class solidarity from those women who have seceded into a privatised world of new India.
(Ravinder Kaur is Director, Centre of Global South Asian Studies, University of Copenhagen)
This is so sad that I had to hold back the tears. Thank you Ravi for bringing this to the forefront so now just maybe things can begin to change for the safety of these women.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 10:56 AM   #216
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
For posters who were trying to pin the majority of rape on slums and the poors, here is politicians who just rape a woman.

CNN correspondent in India is reporting that, before the rape of the medical student that provoke the demonstrations, rapes by politician and law enforcement were always swept under the rug.

IN addition to intimidation by politicians and law enforcement officials, there is also a stigma associated with rape in the general population.
Hence, rape is under reported.
Rape seems to be a sport in India. So sad this woman went through this but perhaps her death will not be in vain if this is what was needed to make a change.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 10:59 AM   #217
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Companion of India rape victim: Begged attackers to stop
From Aliza Kassim, CNN
updated 11:06 PM EST, Fri January 4, 2013
Watch this video
Friend: I begged them to leave her
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

"I begged them again and again to leave her," friend says of attackers
His companion died nearly two weeks later
Interior minister orders 10 female constables at every Delhi police station

(CNN) -- New details emerged Friday of the fatal gang rape of a 23-year-old student in New Delhi from a male friend, who detailed the incident as horrific and their subsequent treatment as callous.

The 28-year-old man, who asked not to be identified, said he and the young woman had watched a movie December 16, and then boarded a private bus to return to her home in a New Delhi suburb.

The driver made lewd remarks and five other men taunted the couple and locked the doors, he said in a telephone interview with Agence France-Presse from a town in Uttar Pradesh state.

"They hit me with a small stick and dragged my friend to a seat near the driver's cabin," the man said. Then the "driver and the other men raped my friend and hit her in the worst possible ways in the most private parts of her body."

The driver used an iron bar in the attack, he told the news agency. The friend said he suffered a broken leg.
Remembering New Delhi gang-rape victim
Villagers beat politician accused of rape
India's social problems
Rape investigations in India
Rape victim's father: Hang assailants

"The cruelty I saw should not be seen ever. I tried to fight against the men but later I begged them again and again to leave her," he said.

In an interview with Reuters, the man said their abductors drove the couple throughout the city for about two hours before dropping them below an overpass; he was unable to stand and had no clothes.

"Three-wheeler taxis would slow down, take a look at us and move on," he said. "So would cars and motorcycles. We got no help for nearly 20 or 25 minutes."

When three police vehicles finally did show up, he said, "they couldn't decide among themselves which police precinct has jurisdiction."

Throughout, his friend was bleeding profusely, he said.

"We need change in every area," the companion said.

The attack, which resulted in the woman's death on December 29, has prompted widespread debate over the way the country handles sexual assaults and the treatment of women in India. Numerous protests have taken place and laws have been proposed.

India's interior minister has ordered New Delhi police stations to increase the number of women officers to facilitate the handling of complaints from women.

Interior Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde said Friday that each police station in Delhi should have 10 women constables and two women subinspectors.

Indian rape debate: Why death penalty is no solution

"We will be posting these women very soon, according to this order, by diverting staff from other places and making them available in Delhi," police spokesman Rajan Bhagat said. At present, women comprise 7% of police forces, he said.

Candidates will be recruited within four months, and training will take an additional nine months, he said.

Bhagat denied that the directive was issued solely because of the rape, but said it is aimed at helping women.

Read more: The perils of being a woman in India

"We need overall more women in the police station as other women feel more comfortable with female officers," he said. "If all women complaints are attended to promptly, situations like that of the gang-raped medical student may have been avoided."

The interior minister said he is working with security officials to strengthen laws regarding rape and assault.

In the state of Haryana, about 80 miles northwest of Delhi, officials plan to publicize the profiles of rapists.

The state will publish the names, addresses and case numbers of convicted rapists on a website.

"In doing so, we hope to curb crime against women," said Laik Ram Dabbas, director of the state crime records bureau.

The website could be active this month, Dabbas said.

"By making these names and profiles public, we think crime can be curbed, as in India people are sensitive to public embarrassment," Dabbas said. "Once the public is aware of such people roaming around their area, they will become more careful."

The men accused in the gang rape that led to the death of the 23-year-old Indian woman were charged Thursday in a New Delhi court with murder, rape and kidnapping.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 11:01 AM   #218
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by PhilePhile View Post
Bikram Singh Brahma is a poor example based on the reporting.

It looked like quite a few Indians became 'rape' experts overnight.
Please explain.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #219
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

These guys do not deserve capital punishment, it's too good for them. They deserve to rot away in the most gruesome prison for the rest of their pathetic lives.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #220
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by PhilePhile View Post
Bikram Singh Brahma is a poor example based on the reporting.

It looked like quite a few Indians became 'rape' experts overnight.
Do you mind expanding a little, I don't get your point.
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #221
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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Originally Posted by mykarma View Post
Please explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tennisbum79 View Post
Do you mind expanding a little, I don't get your point.

I think sentimentalism or possibly something else had adversely impact the mental faculty to think critically (read the article in post #206?).
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #222
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

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I think sentimentalism or possibly something else had adversely impact the mental faculty to think critically (read the article in post #206?).
I posted and just re-read the article you are referring to
  1. Are you taking issue because the accused has not confessed/admitted and deny the accusation through his son?
  2. Or with the mob justice aspect of it?
On 1: it is well known that Indian politicians have routinely denied or suppressed accusation of rape and/or intimidated the victim.

So the fact that he denies the accusation does not in itself mean that should not be taken with high dosage of skepticism.


On 2, Although I do neither condone nor justify the crowd reaction, you can understand it as an expression of frustration after so many years cover up and crime not being taken seriously. Crowd had never thought critically, anywhere in the word. Mind you, this was spontaneous.
And this is a normal human reaction after years of pent up anger and frustration.
Your suggestion that their mentally faculty are impaired or diminished is insulting.




I can't conclude from this that the people are thinking of themselves as rape expert.


I Ohio USA, , we currently have demonstrations against a rape (by popular football players) case that took place in a High School, and the powerful coach is standing behind his football players
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Old Jan 5th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #223
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilePhile View Post
I think sentimentalism or possibly something else had adversely impact the mental faculty to think critically (read the article in post #206?).
Perhaps you're correct so humor me and explain what you meant if you don't mind.
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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 02:29 AM   #224
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Re: India gang rape outrage... what happens now?

Victim of Indian gang-rape is named

Student's father says he wants her name known, to give courage to other women


Tom Foot
Sunday 06 January 2013

The young Delhi student who was gang-raped and beaten and who subsequently died from her injuries was named late last night by her father as Jyoti Singh Pandev.

Badri Singh Pandey, in an interview with a Sunday newspaper, said he wanted the world to know her real name to give rape survivors courage.

The 53-year-old said: "My daughter didn't do anything wrong. She died while protecting herself. I am proud of her. Revealing her name will give courage to other women who have survived these attacks. They will find strength from my daughter."

Indian law prohibits naming a rape victim unless she authorises it or, if she is dead, her family agrees to it.

More: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-8439740.html

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Old Jan 6th, 2013, 10:35 AM   #225
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Re: India gang rape victim dies

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Superb post, and I certainly "harp on" how the poor are mistreated around the world, including in the US. Anyhow, neither tennisbum nor I would disagree with you that rape is a big problem in the US (and elsewhere).
I don't know about you but I see plenty of people like tennisbum who are driven by their own agendas or just to show big nations (India/China/Russia etc) in poor light by ignoring their own backyards. Example, read this one:

What the International Community Can Do to Support the Protest Against the Delhi Gang Rape:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...lhi-gang-rape/

IMO they don't have any locus standi because this problem NOT yet brought down considerably in many 'International' countries

This happens most of the times in the US/UK etc (most media such as BBC contribute in a good way to do very nice propaganda crap. Example, there was a program about Indian roads. One lady started blabbering that "Indians don't know how to drive" etc. So I wrote to her asking why 3000+ people/year are still dying on the the UK roads considering its developed status? She didn't reply).

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
I still think ppl like Ashi (or you) would make good members of the Lok Sabha, especially if (her) panning the idea ITT means she'd go there not giving a FF if she was re-elected or not. (Yes, the US Congress could use ppl who would rather lose than whore out, too). Anyhow, here's a Reuters article from yesterday that sheds some interesting light on things.
Diving into Politics is another topic to dwell on w.r.t this thread's scope.

However, I can clearly state (even with my limited experience since 2007) that one doesn't have to become a Politician to care about others. Trust me it's not a pre-requisite if one is *committed* enough, armed with small ideas and willing to share his/her little time and money. Or just team up with like-minded pals/contacts to do something. I do it every year in small numbers, this is for entire 2012 year:

a) took care of 23 old couples at two places (thrown out by children)
b) 30 farmers to come of their debt and start again (after 'Sandy' passed, few South Indian states battered by a cyclone - but most morons in the national TV channels were busy covering the US/Obama's Election. I never saw such a stupidity**)
c) helped a class (58 girls/boys) to pay for their fee/books/food at a children school/hostel
d) 15 kids got operated (born with heart disease).

And a few more. I already planned to do a little more in 2013...

If people pool up and contribute, many problems on this planet could be significantly brought down. So you see I don't believe in these TV channels sensational debates, blame games, International prejudice etc. I believe in "Just Do It" tag very much.

**Many channels were like that until a few days ago. But some like-minded people like me wrote to them about the people who are dying like pests due to severe winter. So few channels started covering about them. Otherwise? Same nonsense. They are obsessed with this rape, most national channels, covering almost 24x7 since 4 weeks as if no other huge problems exist in India.

Off topic: Does anyone know how many people/day are dying out of hunger? The Supreme Court of India directed the elected morons to open up the Food Corporation of India go downs so that poor people could be fed instead of getting rotten or going to rodents. Why are they doing? NOTHING. This is one of the reasons why whopping 1.6 million children dead in 2011 (big chunk out of them are due to malnutrition). Who's responsible for this number?
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