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Old Jan 2nd, 2013, 11:26 PM   #61
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rucolo View Post
The reasons for Caroline`s decline

1) Talk about #1 without Grand Slam finally got to her (FO 2011)

Caroline was strong for so long, but at FO 2011 the talk was too much even for her. She bombed out to Hantuchova. Caroline is a strong, positive person, but not a robot. With each press conference the talk about not deserving #1 put more and more pressure on her to win a Grand Slam.

....
I dont think Caroline is under pressure to win a major. No one expects her to win a major in 2013.
What she has to do is get back to being a YEC player and start making deep runs in majors and Tier I's again.

Rory has the pressure. There are golf writers who are picking him to win more majors than Nicklaus or Tiger. He's expected to win and win and win.
For Caroline, no one would be surprised if she didnt win any title this year. She just went 14 months without a title, until the end of last year when players were tired and she won in fields without YEC players

The way she started this season, a total collapse is possible in 2013. She has to get focused and play each point in a way thats better than what she just did vs Pervak
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 05:03 AM   #62
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I agree with your first point. I have no idea if she skips training though. I mean, she could hardly look any fitter than she does and her stamina is second to none. So I'm sure that she works very hard on the physical part of the game. Problem may be that she doesn't work enough on her technique, which may explain why she continues to struggle with her forehand. I'm obviously just guessing, but if she has been working on that we sure don't see any positive results - or not often enough anyway. As I've said before, towards the end of last year the forehand down the line was a pretty effective shot for her in some of her matches. I didn't see any of that in the Pervak match anymore though.

....But it's early days. Let's hope for better in Sydney. It's all we can do.
Kim didn't collapse at the chat about her being a slamless #1 back when she first ascended to #1 for a few weeks many years ago...nor did Big Masha collapse when folks suggested that her best days were over after the shoulder injury.Sports media will ALWAYS feel compelled to blab about SOMEthing cuz they have an inferiority complex when comparing themselves to REAL journalists who write about wars or expose some important government scandal;therefore,they pretentiously prattle over anything that will get themselves attention and fool people into thinking that they're great expositors like news reporters of renown.

Though I adore our sweet Caro,if she's gonna mentally collapse just because of skepticism from hopelessly horny Serb-worshipping douchebags like Cronin,then she doesn't deserve to be ranked with the champions of the sport.It might be different if Caro were being heckled everywhere she walked with racial insults...or being stalked by some obsessed maniac but,as far as we know,that was never the case.By all appearances,Caro has a pretty decent life where she's loved by family,friends and lots of fans,too....If you're gonna blame the no-slam bashers for her ranking decline...if that sad premise is actually true...then maybe it's time for Caro to retire and formulate marital and maternal plans with Rory.........I'm only speaking hypothetically here b/c I'd like to think that Caro wasn't THAT weak
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 06:15 AM   #63
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

I don't think that criticism of slamless no.1 got to her too much. Sure, she was annoyed but then at the same time she realised this was a special achievement. I suspect that it could get to her team more than to her, actually. Last season Piotr kind of went along with what the experts and commentators said: hiring a new coach, developing a more offensive game, focus on slams etc.
It was Caro who in the end said to him that she wants things to be as before.

I agree with the above that the media talk from somebody like Cronin should not matter to athletes of this class. The media are always looking for a big story which will help them to draw people into a conversation. And bashing of a slamless no.1 fits the purpose.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:06 AM   #64
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
I don't think that criticism of slamless no.1 got to her too much. Sure, she was annoyed but then at the same time she realised this was a special achievement. I suspect that it could get to her team more than to her, actually. Last season Piotr kind of went along with what the experts and commentators said: hiring a new coach, developing a more offensive game, focus on slams etc.
It was Caro who in the end said to him that she wants things to be as before.

I agree with the above that the media talk from somebody like Cronin should not matter to athletes of this class. The media are always looking for a big story which will help them to draw people into a conversation. And bashing of a slamless no.1 fits the purpose.
A champion athlete cant let stuff like that bother you. There's pressure at every level, to move up, to do things you havent done. To keep winning and winning.
The pressure this year is on Serena, Vika, Maria. Those are the 3 who are expected to win a major.
Caroline hasnt played like a #1 for over a year. Even if that was a reason, its long over.
No one is bombarding her with questions about winning majors. She only won 2 matches the last 3 majors

Being criticised for being a slamless #1 is not an excuse to have your career unravel. Kim & Amelie both got to #1 1st. You keep playing well and the majors come. If you fall off like Jankovic, the majors dont come
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:32 AM   #65
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
If I understand him correctly even Piotr doesn't want her to play so defensive. He's urging her to play closer to the baseline and don't hit through the middle so much.
It is a GM-myth that Piotr wants Caro to junk ball every ball back down the middle of the park. This has never been his strategy.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:59 AM   #66
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
It is a GM-myth that Piotr wants Caro to junk ball every ball back down the middle of the park. This has never been his strategy.
Maybe so but he hasn't able to get her to not do that for the most part.

Either Caro is incapable of stopping doing that in which case whoever is coaching or advising her probably doesn't matter or somebody else should be brought in who can get her stop hitting down the middle so much and camping out well behind the baseline.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 11:14 AM   #67
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Its possible Piotr is part of the problem.
We should let this year unfold. But if Caro continues like 2012, you have to wonder if it hurt her career, not hiring a true coach to fine tune her strategies & mechanics.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 11:38 AM   #68
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rucolo View Post
The reasons for Caroline`s decline

1) Talk about #1 without Grand Slam finally got to her (FO 2011)

Caroline was strong for so long, but at FO 2011 the talk was too much even for her. She bombed out to Hantuchova. Caroline is a strong, positive person, but not a robot. With each press conference the talk about not deserving #1 put more and more pressure on her to win a Grand Slam.

2) Rory

Rory is now her Top priority, not tennis anymore. Tennis is only #2. Skipping training to be with him is completely unprofessional. I can`t see the fire she used to have on court anymore. The will to win is not 100 % anymore. Caroline is not 100 % focused on court anymore. She lost her consistency, her fire, her mental strength. Because her #1 is Rory.
2. 100% agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 02:00 PM   #69
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Kim didn't collapse at the chat about her being a slamless #1 back when she first ascended to #1 for a few weeks many years ago...nor did Big Masha collapse when folks suggested that her best days were over after the shoulder injury.Sports media will ALWAYS feel compelled to blab about SOMEthing cuz they have an inferiority complex when comparing themselves to REAL journalists who write about wars or expose some important government scandal;therefore,they pretentiously prattle over anything that will get themselves attention and fool people into thinking that they're great expositors like news reporters of renown.

Though I adore our sweet Caro,if she's gonna mentally collapse just because of skepticism from hopelessly horny Serb-worshipping douchebags like Cronin,then she doesn't deserve to be ranked with the champions of the sport.It might be different if Caro were being heckled everywhere she walked with racial insults...or being stalked by some obsessed maniac but,as far as we know,that was never the case.By all appearances,Caro has a pretty decent life where she's loved by family,friends and lots of fans,too....If you're gonna blame the no-slam bashers for her ranking decline...if that sad premise is actually true...then maybe it's time for Caro to retire and formulate marital and maternal plans with Rory.........I'm only speaking hypothetically here b/c I'd like to think that Caro wasn't THAT weak
I don't think that we can point the finger at any one thing and say THIS is the sole reason for Caro's (hopefully just temporary) decline. Many things are probably contributing factors. I don't think that the criticism itself has made Caroline play any worse, but since their comments were supported by specialists and former players she might have taken them more seriously. And that may have motivated her to try working with different coaches, which didn't get her the results she had hoped for. At least not in the short term. Long term we don't know, because there wasn't any.

So, no. I don't think it's the criticism from the likes of Cronin or Bodo, or even Navratilova or (to a lesser degree) Hingis by itself. But all things are connected and play of each other. The relationship with Rory also may have had a negative impact, although he definitely doesn't seem to suffer career wise from the relationship. Injuries could also play a part. And of course the improvements from her contemporaries plus the sensational comebacks from Serena and Sharapova mean that for Caro even the status quo would mean going backwards. Most importantly is her lack of confidence which she is clearly struggling with. The Caro of old didn't lose anywhere near as many close matches as the version from the last eighteen months or so. If she was still as confident as she was in the past and had won just half of those close matches that she now ended up losing that in itself would already have made for a much better 2012.

The situation is not hopeless, but it's serious. She missed the boat when the likes of Azarenka, Kvitova and Radwanska made their move. If she starts swimming now like Missy Franklin she might catch up and still get on the boat, but if she doesn't that boat will disappear into the distance and she'll end up drowning in a sea of scrubs and non-entities as she slips ever further down the rankings.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 02:57 PM   #70
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rucolo View Post
The reasons for Caroline`s decline

1) Talk about #1 without Grand Slam finally got to her (FO 2011)

Caroline was strong for so long, but at FO 2011 the talk was too much even for her. She bombed out to Hantuchova. Caroline is a strong, positive person, but not a robot. With each press conference the talk about not deserving #1 put more and more pressure on her to win a Grand Slam.

2) Rory

Rory is now her Top priority, not tennis anymore. Tennis is only #2. Skipping training to be with him is completely unprofessional. I can`t see the fire she used to have on court anymore. The will to win is not 100 % anymore. Caroline is not 100 % focused on court anymore. She lost her consistency, her fire, her mental strength. Because her #1 is Rory.
Well we can all have our theories. But that's all they are - opinions and theories not fact. There's a lot I disaagree with and there are some elements I agree with. But what is fact is her play has deteriorated markedly. In particular - the two strengths in her game - she's leaking way more UEs than she used to and she loses important key points and games that you could put money on she'd win in the past. In short - players used to be frustrated that they could never get a ball past her and used to say how hard she was to beat. Probably most of them didn't believe they could beat her whatever they might say. Now you can see them all think as well as say they believe they can beat her.

We need to remember that point 1 (succumbing to pressure being a slamless #1) is a circular argument and is NOT fact befrore we follow down that route of what Caro should do or accusing her of weakness there. It goes:
  • There was pressure because everyone goes on and on on and on and on and on ... at her for being a slamless #1 and mentions the pressure and the pressure builds up.
  • She didn't win a slam.
  • Therefore, it was the pressure that she succumbed to.
    That is just such a circular argument and in no way follows on. But if enough people say it, people believe it as fact and not opinion.
Then we have posters joining in and saying this is no excuse. Well where did this thing which is not a fact anyway become an excuse. Not from Caro who consistenlty answered that there is no pressure and #1 is where I want to be. It's a bit much to ctiticise her for something she she never said and is an unproven theory.

My own view on this is that her team and Caro gave confused messages as to what they were doing. It first started as easrly as the clay season in 2011. We then had that she had to change her game, then no, then the coaches and that mystery coach. It was all confusing to me. Then we had - don't worry about these losses it's the slams we are aiming at. I never liked that thing about it not matterring if she got beaten early in the other tournaments. And of course - she doesn't suddenly get a very unexpected good result at a slam out the blue. That's where I think she got derailed with her whole team. I don't buy she succcumbed mentally though.

I'm fine you or anyone believing that she succumbed under pressure so long as don't try to make out it's fact as opposed to opinion.

On point 2 - to some extent I agree. I don't know of her skipping training though. Having time off when she's not training during the off-season is part and parcel of what I thought she's always done.

What I think - and again it's only my opinion - not fact. I don't think she's as hungy now as she was. I think these losses would have really hurt her badly two or more years ago. Now - well she does have Rory to turn to in her life when she loses a tennis match. Tennis is not the only thing now so I think that takes the pain away. And her interviews. I know she's trying to put a positive spin on things. But with a couple of exceptions - it just doesn't seem she's hurt and driven so hard to prove everyone wrong with their prediction - something she was passionate about proving the naysayers wrong.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 03:31 PM   #71
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
She missed the boat when the likes of Azarenka, Kvitova and Radwanska made their move. If she starts swimming now like Missy Franklin she might catch up and still get on the boat, but if she doesn't that boat will disappear into the distance and she'll end up drowning in a sea of scrubs and non-entities as she slips ever further down the rankings.
Cut off the rest of your post b/c I enjoyed the metaphorical language above.Let me be clear that such pressure CAN have an impact,but it speaks very poorly of the player if she's totally overcome by it,and I don't want that to be Caro's legacy.

Ivanovic is one of those weaklings and her actions--refusing to hire a sports shrink;having her EX-bf's 'golf fitness' coach lead her training--show that she has basically quit on her career and is content to float around the Top 20...just barely good enough to still get endorsement offers,photo shoots,and live off her lucrative Adidas personal services contract(which requires her to be an active player).....w/o dealing with any of the pressure that goes with being an elite player

Then there's my sweet Dinarik who let the naysaying eat her alive on court: She resorting to pushing and abandoned her aggressive style whenever she had a really big match because she was so afraid of making mistakes,and sometimes even THAT outlet wasn't enough,as we saw in that pathetic effort in the 2009 RG final where she was almost frozen in terror in the tunnel before walking out on court.Eventually,she neglected her health and destroyed her back cuz she was so paranoid about being the 'unworthy #1' and kept playing when she should've recuperated

Caro isn't as bad as either of those two,IMO,but it's at least possible that she choked on that MP vs. Li at the AO--and maybe in some other big matches--by pressing too much to disprove the naysayers.We'll never know for sure,obviously,but I'm confident that that's the case with Dallas QB Tony Romo who has SUPERB overall stats for the high-pressure month of December in his career and yet,in the ultimate win-or-go-home games,he has a sorry 1-6 W/L record and just finds a way to make some critical mistake.In the end,Caro's level of love for tennis will have a say on how she copes and what she decides to do
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 04:17 PM   #72
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by terjw View Post
...
What I think - and again it's only my opinion - not fact. I don't think she's as hungy now as she was. I think these losses would have really hurt her badly two or more years ago. Now - well she does have Rory to turn to in her life when she loses a tennis match. Tennis is not the only thing now so I think that takes the pain away. And her interviews. I know she's trying to put a positive spin on things. But with a couple of exceptions - it just doesn't seem she's hurt and driven so hard to prove everyone wrong with their prediction - something she was passionate about proving the naysayers wrong.
It doesnt really matter what the reasons are: burnout, Rory, change in mechanics, etc.
The important part is that she has to be hungry enough to overcome whatever obstacles are there.
Both Serena and Sharapova were in hospitals, their whole career in doubt. And they came all the way back.
Whatever happened to Caroline's career, it will be her desire to get back, or lack of desire, that shapes her career
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 04:35 PM   #73
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Cronin's one of the few journalists who's given Caro a fair shake. When Troels Rasmussen has larger article on Caro, he emails Cronin a rough translation and he's getting some insider info now. He picks her for top 5 and a GS this year.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 04:39 PM   #74
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Caro isn't as bad as either of those two,IMO,but it's at least possible that she choked on that MP vs. Li at the AO--and maybe in some other big matches--by pressing too much to disprove the naysayers.We'll never know for sure,obviously,but I'm confident that that's the case with Dallas QB Tony Romo who has SUPERB overall stats for the high-pressure month of December in his career and yet,in the ultimate win-or-go-home games,he has a sorry 1-6 W/L record and just finds a way to make some critical mistake.In the end,Caro's level of love for tennis will have a say on how she copes and what she decides to do
I think that every athlete chokes sometimes, and those that say they don't are probably lying. And in tennis it happens even more frequently than in teamsports, even though I suppose a quarterback is as close as it gets to one individual being personally responsible for the result of an entire team. But no, I don't think the choking was as bad with our Wozzy as it was with some others when they got the chance to do something significant. Caroline wasn't frozen or like a deer in headlights but competed to the best of her ability in that Li match or her USO and YEC finals against Clijsters. Maybe her arm got a little bit heavy at some key points, but she's human and thus it's normal and it's definitely something that can be overcome. Clijsters herself had much worse problems in her slam finals against Henin, and just look how great she ended up doing in the end.

But first Caroline has to put herself into the position again where she'll actually be in the mix at the business end of big tournaments. That alone is already a mountain to climb for her. I think she'll really give it all she's got though. That interview from the other day where she said that she wants to win the AO and get back to number one soon sounds borderline funny considering the state that her tennis is in, but it also proves that the fire is still burning and that she won't go anywhere without at least putting up one hell of a fight.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2013, 05:16 PM   #75
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I think that every athlete chokes sometimes, and those that say they don't are probably lying. And in tennis it happens even more frequently than in teamsports, even though I suppose a quarterback is as close as it gets to one individual being personally responsible for the result of an entire team. But no, I don't think the choking was as bad with our Wozzy as it was with some others when they got the chance to do something significant. Caroline wasn't frozen or like a deer in headlights but competed to the best of her ability in that Li match or her USO and YEC finals against Clijsters. Maybe her arm got a little bit heavy at some key points, but she's human and thus it's normal and it's definitely something that can be overcome. Clijsters herself had much worse problems in her slam finals against Henin, and just look how great she ended up doing in the end.

But first Caroline has to put herself into the position again where she'll actually be in the mix at the business end of big tournaments. That alone is already a mountain to climb for her. I think she'll really give it all she's got though. That interview from the other day where she said that she wants to win the AO and get back to number one soon sounds borderline funny considering the state that her tennis is in, but it also proves that the fire is still burning and that she won't go anywhere without at least putting up one hell of a fight.
I really agree with your post. Well all except the last sentence where I'd like to agree and think that - but it's more hope than anything. I've just seen too many Caro interviews where she's on auto-pilot to put a positive spin on everything and doesn't prove or tell us anything.
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