Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6 - Page 19 - TennisForum.com
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 06:58 PM   #271
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by StoneRose View Post
Caro had trouble with her knees last year (or at least she says so). I don't see the big difference, Ksenia has been ranked in top 40 too last year and has fallen down the rankings due to injuries ( or at least other people here say so). Look at the hard facts, Petra is ranked 8th, Caro 10th, both have work to do , there's no way around it however much you like to twist it.
It appears you totally missed the point of what UncleSilas was saying.

You're focusing on ranking. And for the record (since you brought it up), Petra was in the top 4-5 for most of the year, until after the US Open, when ailments got to her and she really took her slid.

More importantly, UncleSilas was focusing on ability to win a big match due to weapons and talent. And in that respect Caro and Petra are not even in the same ball park or discussion.

One match here or there, and some one can make the argument Petra could have won the Australian, Wimbledon or The French Open last year (she made the semi's of two and the quarters of one), Caro was never in that position in any of those tournaments. And (unlike Petra) very few people would give her a chance of winning, if she even got there. Why? Because she has no weapons and always has to be sharp (or in Marathon mode) to win. Big difference!

So the ranking means nothing, as it's never meant with Caro, in ones ability to compete for or win majors (though Of course in Petra's case, it can be a barometer of her overall sharpness, consistency and health for the year). Apples and Oranges.

Nothing else needs to be said on this.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:15 PM   #272
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by UNCLESILAS View Post
Petra was horrid in that particular match, being true all you say about the fatigue, being first round... but as you well know Petra still can be offensive and make winners and win most of those difficult matches, as she did in 2012, but Caro can´t, she is always going to depend on the other player choking.
Yeah, that was easily the worst played match she won all year. No doubt.

Yeah, that poster you responded to is an Azarenka fan, who for what ever reason loves to take cheap shots at Petra. You know the type, that can never resist in a thread? Don't know why? Must have some sort of complex? So you gotta keep that in perspective.

I definitely get your point though. Caro doesn't have the offensive game or talent to win big (especially) consistently, regardless of her ranking. She needs to rely on others.

Generally speaking: Yes, you need "weapons" to win majors. Azarenka is one of the few recent Grand Slam winners, who you can argue has none (one or several definable weapons). But she had to play at the highest levels of her ability and have fortunate match ups for her to win her one as well.

We'll see what 2013 brings???
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:32 PM   #273
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Yeah, that was easily the worst played match she won all year. No doubt.

Yeah, that poster you responded to is an Azarenka fan, who for what ever reason loves to take cheap shots at Petra. You know the type, that can never resist in a thread? Don't know why? Must have some sort of complex? So you gotta keep that in perspective.

I definitely get your point though. Caro doesn't have the offensive game or talent to win big (especially) consistently, regardless of her ranking. She needs to rely on others.

Generally speaking: Yes, you need "weapons" to win majors. Azarenka is one of the few recent Grand Slam winners, who you can argue has none (one or several definable weapons). But she had to play at the highest levels of her ability and have fortunate match ups for her to win her one as well.

We'll see what 2013 brings???
Actually I like Azarenka a lot, but we´ll leave that for another thread, so no one can accuse us of going off topic (look what happened with the Petra-team-managment thing)
Lookin forward tonight´s match between Petra and Pavs.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:33 PM   #274
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
It appears you totally missed the point of what UncleSilas was saying.

You're focusing on ranking. And for the record (since you brought it up), Petra was in the top 4-5 for most of the year, until after the US Open, when ailments got to her and she really took her slid.

More importantly, UncleSilas was focusing on ability to win a big match due to weapons and talent. And in that respect Caro and Petra are not even in the same ball park or discussion.
Apparently not since he agreed with me and i subsequently agreed with him (tentatively as consistency is also a weapon and peak Caro is much better there) on the weapons parts.

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
The overwhelming majority of Petra's losses last year (whether healthy, sick, injured, etc.) were against top top 10, 20, 40 players.

The two worst losses she had (if you go by Pervak's ranking), were against Hredecka and Venus Williams. Lucie H. was ranked 105 and and Venus 134.
Now who's focused on rankings, you brought up all those numbers first. Of course Petra was ranked 4-5 most of the year, YEC points hadn't gone off yet. Caro couldn't fall that much further. It doesn't even matter, they're 8th and 10th now and that reflects how they've played this year. Now you say it's injuries, the team and whatever. I'd say it's Petra herself, not fit (injuries) and clearly not mentally focused (could build a new team if she really thought that's necessary, i don't think so btw).

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Yeah, that poster you responded to is an Azarenka fan, who for what ever reason loves to take cheap shots at Petra. You know the type, that can never resist in a thread? Don't know why? Must have some sort of complex? So you gotta keep that in perspective.
Undoubtedly you're referring to me here. I don't know what cheap shots you're talking about, i post how i see it and usually i'm willing to back my posts up with arguments with which you can agree or not. At least i'm not calling you or other posters names, as you did in that other thread, if i don't agree with them.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:34 PM   #275
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Asherahpova View Post
Caro and chrissie-fan
Thanks. I'm very disappointed. I can't say anything more than that really.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:39 PM   #276
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by StoneRose View Post
Apparently not since he agreed with me and i subsequently agreed with him (tentatively as consistency is also a weapon and peak Caro is much better there) on the weapons parts.

Now who's focused on rankings, you brought up all those numbers first. Of course Petra was ranked 4-5 most of the year, YEC points hadn't gone off yet. Caro couldn't fall that much further. It doesn't even matter, they're 8th and 10th now and that reflects how they've played this year. Now you say it's injuries, the team and whatever. I'd say it's Petra herself, not fit (injuries) and clearly not mentally focused (could build a new team if she really thought that's necessary, i don't think so btw).

Undoubtedly you're referring to me here. I don't know what cheap shots you're talking about, i post how i see it and usually i'm willing o back them up with arguments with which you can agree or not. At least i'm not calling you or other posters names, as you did in that other thread, if i don't agree with them.
As I said previously: UncleSilas points were already made, so let's move on now ('come, come'). There's nothing else to say on the matter.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:51 PM   #277
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by UNCLESILAS View Post
Actually I like Azarenka a lot, but we´ll leave that for another thread, so no one can accuse us of going off topic (look what happened with the Petra-team-managment thing)
Lookin forward tonight´s match between Petra and Pavs.
Don't you know/realize, most of the threads here that have hundreds of responses are usually WAY off topic? Don't let some of them fool you.

Please!

Oh, I'm not saying Azarenka doesn't have game. She does (especially last year). But you also know what I'm alluding to as well (especially in regards to majors and multi major winners)?

But yes; that's for another time (plus other people are doing it on that other/current Hater thread about her anyway). SMH

Yeah, I look forward to the match tonight/this morning as well (if I can manage to stay up).

We'll see?
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 07:58 PM   #278
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Thanks. I'm very disappointed. I can't say anything more than that really.
Caro can play much better than this, and i hope she does this year. In the end Brisbane is not a very big deal, AO's much more important.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:10 PM   #279
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
It appears you totally missed the point of what UncleSilas was saying.

You're focusing on ranking. And for the record (since you brought it up), Petra was in the top 4-5 for most of the year, until after the US Open, when ailments got to her and she really took her slid.

More importantly, UncleSilas was focusing on ability to win a big match due to weapons and talent. And in that respect Caro and Petra are not even in the same ball park or discussion.

One match here or there, and some one can make the argument Petra could have won the Australian, Wimbledon or The French Open last year (she made the semi's of two and the quarters of one), Caro was never in that position in any of those tournaments. And (unlike Petra) very few people would give her a chance of winning, if she even got there. Why? Because she has no weapons and always has to be sharp (or in Marathon mode) to win. Big difference!

So the ranking means nothing, as it's never meant with Caro, in ones ability to compete for or win majors (though Of course in Petra's case, it can be a barometer of her overall sharpness, consistency and health for the year). Apples and Oranges.

Nothing else needs to be said on this.
Wimbledon/RG? That's a stretch...she was never close to winning either of those matches she lost. Masha schooled her badly and Serena beat her pretty comfortable too.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:10 PM   #280
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Thanks. I'm very disappointed. I can't say anything more than that really.
Hey Chrissie Fan.

What's your opinion on Caro (sorry I haven't read anything from you recently or looked into your subforum)?

Is it her; Rory; her father; her game; all of the above, etc.?

Whadda you think/what's your opinion?
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:13 PM   #281
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Yeah, that was easily the worst played match she won all year. No doubt.

Yeah, that poster you responded to is an Azarenka fan, who for what ever reason loves to take cheap shots at Petra. You know the type, that can never resist in a thread? Don't know why? Must have some sort of complex? So you gotta keep that in perspective.

I definitely get your point though. Caro doesn't have the offensive game or talent to win big (especially) consistently, regardless of her ranking. She needs to rely on others.

Generally speaking: Yes, you need "weapons" to win majors. Azarenka is one of the few recent Grand Slam winners, who you can argue has none (one or several definable weapons). But she had to play at the highest levels of her ability and have fortunate match ups for her to win her one as well.

We'll see what 2013 brings???
Bit simplistic...Petra's as good as she is, still needs to be in perfect shape and form, to beat the elite players and then still she needs help in avoiding Serena and even Masha.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:21 PM   #282
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
Wimbledon/RG? That's a stretch...she was never close to winning either of those matches she lost. Masha schooled her badly and Serena beat her pretty comfortable too.
That wasn't my point and you missed the essence of what I/we were stating (not surprised). But since you brought it up: The Australian Open was very close, and many thought that Petra should have one that match; even Sharapova fans said that (unless you forgotten).

Now once again, you totally missed the point of our prior conversation. I wasn't arguing 'coulda, woulda, shoulda, almost or how'. Nope! I accounted for what you said above, by basically stating 'if Petra didn't play or had gotten past Sharapova or Serena in the French, Australian and Wibledon, she could have very well won ANY or all three of them'. She certainly would have been favored if she would have gotten past them and advanced to the next round/s. That's the key, important take away.

This is in stark contrast to Caro's case, where she had only went that far in one (The US Open). And even if she would have gotten past Serena, she still wouldn't have been favored. That was the ultimate point/what I was really stating (Caro didn't compete. And Caro wouldn't have been favored, even if she got past Serena)!!!

It was more a Caro, Petra (and their respective games, in winning Grand Slam), offensive tennis discussion, to back up and follow up another poster. You were lurking, looking for too much, it appears.

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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:30 PM   #283
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by paprotek View Post


Piotr's rant in English, part 1, I'll edit this post with part 2 in a couple of hours.

His Polish is far from perfect, very colloquial with occasional strange grammar and collocation, and lots of coherence issues as well, the occasional incoherence comes from him and not from my translation.




You are playing and you haven't got any plan, and you know what's worse, you are sort of playing and if you looked from outside yeah you are playing, balls are hit but in reality you are not playing at all, the fact is that she is playing, and you know how she is playing? She's leaning into balls, with her backhand she keeps you hitting crosscourt, obviously there's no sense in getting into a struggle with you and what are you doing? You play mid court, mid court, mid court, mid court, she's stepping in... Point won. She's just waiting when... She steps in every time you play a short ball. You're moving her around, you get a mid court call, you're getting into position and what not. What have I told you? You're not making yourself tall enough while serving. This is how you serve [starts gesturing a lot]. You should serve this way, with a snap of your wrist, forward... and a snap. [literally:] The shoe is going into the direction of a serving hand. And what are you doing? You are throwing everything and slicing and she [grabs a racquet]. She plays like this, and like this. She can't play here. And here. Do you understand? She can't. And you are playing everything here [that is into Pervak's comfort zone] [puts the racquet away]. Why are you playing (like that)? Because you are playing mid court, she's playing mid court, you are staying two meters [behind the base line?] - it's impossible to play a high ball. How can you play a high ball that much [shows margin] over the net, a deep ball with a lot of spin? It's impossible. Because you are standing too far away. You are standing too far away and you do not start playing with a margin, you are playing into her hands, she's just stepping in, changing - because your ball is too short. Don't you see it? Please, tell me, Karo, do you see it or do you not see it?

[gets up] Please tell me how you, as a player, can't play a backhand. Notice that she's playing where she wants. She's playing into your forehand all the time. And what are you doing? Nothing. So let her play like that. You see she's playing like that. But when your escaping further and further away and you're playing balls at ankle height how can you lift your ball higher? It's not possible. So you give her a flat mid court shot and she whenever she sees that she can step in she's stepping in and winning a point. This is how she's winning. Other reasons for her winning? You're serving like a clown into the same spot time and time again. And you serving is worse and worse. You're wielding your hand, racquet in this way instead of doing it that [gestures] way. Do you understand? You're not following the ball. You are not stepping into the court. You do not want to move her around. Down the line you are playing like this. This how you are playing down the line. This runt, of that height [gestures], can cover the distance from over there because you're not hitting [the ball?].
You're not getting into position that would allow you to make room for a shot and finish the shot off, and play the ball back in the way she played it, with spin, she's small, she must make an extra step, and what are you doing?, you're playing in a way that's perfect for her. Perfect. Do you understand? You will not be able to lift the ball. You won't be able to play the ball that much [shows it] over the net, because you're hitting balls here [at ankle level]. You're standing there [shows with his hand] and hitting the ball here. You don't see the balls at all. You're playing your first match. When you are practising - wa are standing inside the court together, you can't stand in the court like a clown, you must observe the balls, they tell you what shot to choose, whenever you hit a spin ball [he never uses the term topspin] and you keep her further away, don't do like this [gestures], just observe the balls, play the next shot, you won't make it on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th occasion - you'll make it on another one. And what are you doing? You are playing - you are standing, two meters behind the line - in Brisbane [probably the courts are on the outskirts of the city?]. She plays a mid court ball and you dig it out from so low, and she's in control and she repeats her shot. Do you understand? Did you understand what I told you? Think, Karolina. You're returning well, you're returning well. Think that it's you who's playing, you decide what's going on, don't fix your mind on hitting hard, think about attacking balls that are in a perfect moment and playing that much above the net and using rotation, you close with your elbow pushing the ball away from you, obviously when the ball is short you can't play a high ball because it will end in an error, you have to speed up the shot, play normally, [literally:] don't do such a thing again to me, just play and think about what I'm saying. Training you trained [sic], we trained, we pracised that all the time, you are not using it, you're just standing there in the back and you're just playing, playing, playing, she's reaching every single ball, and the moment comes you give her an easy ball, she steps in, finishes a rally and you barely reach her ball. Don't you see it? You have to think about it. You distribute a ball to get a ball, step in and play it faster. You can't come to the net when you are standing in Brisbane. You play the ball, approach the net, but you are too late at the net because you are so far away. If you were closer to the balls like that you would make a volley every time. But you can't make it because you hit your shot in Brisbane and start running. So see how far away you are. Do you get it. Remember. Serve: make yourself taller while serving and aim, this is what your doing now [gestures]. The ball tells you itself what's going on. Look where you are playing your forehand. Mid court mid court mid court mid court.

Karo: I get it [gets up]

Piotr: Think about it, karo, and, most importantly, stay positive.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:41 PM   #284
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
That wasn't my point and you missed the essence of what I/we were stating (not surprised). But since you brought it up: The Australian Open was very close, and many thought that Petra should have one that match; even Sharapova fans said that (unless you forgotten).

Now once again, you totally missed the point of our prior conversation. I'm wasn't arguing 'coulda, woulda, shoulda, almost or how'. Nope! I accounted for what you said above, by basically stating 'if Petra didn't play or had gotten past Sharapova or Serena in the French, Australian and Wibledon, she could have very well won ANY or all three of them'. She certainly would have been favored if she would have gotten past them and advanced to the next round/s. That's the key, important take away.

This is in stark contrast to Caro's case, where she had only went that far in one (The US Open). And even if she would have gotten past Serena, she still wouldn't have been favored. That was the ultimate point/what I was really stating (Caro didn't compete. And Caro wouldn't have been favored, even if she got past Serena)!!!

It was more a Caro, Petra (and their respective games, in winning Grand Slam), offensive tennis discussion, to back up and follow up another poster. You were lurking, looking for too much, it appears.
I didn't miss the point..but you were dissing Vika a bit too much imo. When you said she was lucky, etc, etc..when she beat the same sharapova that Petra couldn't beat at the Oz open.

Vika vs Petra? Would've been a good match..no certainty for either player. At RG and Wimbledon? That I give you..Petra would've been the favorite.


About Caro..her game as it is now, leaves her too much into the opponent's hands, so..you might be right on that one too.
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Old Dec 31st, 2012, 08:43 PM   #285
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Re: Brisbane R1 - [Q] Xeniya Pervak def [8] Karolina Wozniacki 2-6 6-3 7-6

Piotr calling Pervak a runt.
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