On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen - Page 307 - TennisForum.com
TennisForum.com   Wagerline.com MensTennisForums.com TennisUniverse.com
TennisForum.com is the premier Women's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!
Closed Thread

Old Dec 12th, 2012, 01:30 PM   #4591
country flag Jimmie48
Live at the Rainbow!
 
Jimmie48's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 19,270
Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute Jimmie48 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Rick Perry is solid? Really?
__________________

My Tennis Photo Website

Twitter
Jimmie48 is offline View My Blog!  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old Dec 12th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #4592
country flag TennisFan66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,364
TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute TennisFan66 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
Rick Perry is solid? Really?
Just because he's from Texas, it doesn't make him a looney pr default. You know he started off as a Democrat and supported Al Gore? .. That said, he's very popular in the lone star state and has steered it well through recent crisis, imho.

As with Romney however, getting close to a GOP Presidential candidature, his views have unfortunately swung to a much more extreme stance in the last couple of years.
__________________
SUNSHINE

WTA #1 for 67 Weeks.
2010, 2011 WTA YE#1
TennisFan66 is online now View My Blog!  
Old Dec 12th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #4593
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,626
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFan66 View Post
I am personally finding the GOP a puzzle. An enigma. They have some solid, good people. Giuliani, ex NY mayor. Rick Perry, Governor of Texas and also Mitt Romney. As Governor of Massachusetts, he was instrumental in implementing health care reforms, a Democratic President would be proud to put his names to.

However, when someone is elected and runs for President for the GOP, it appears the party machines takes over and it's nothing but an anti gay, anti abortion, gun swinging, religious fanatics agenda.

Personally, I don't get it.
It's EXACTLY the same with the Democrats in the US....Since none of you really give a shit about Mexico,I'll only briefly digress by saying that we have our OWN Obama down here,and his name is Obrador.He came close to winning the presidency in 2006 but then he damned any future hopes he had--fortunately for us--by making an ass of himself in protesting for months over some ridiculous conspiracy theories that allegedly explained why he lost.Once some exhaustive,neutral-party re-counting proved that he lost,he finally shut up after destroying his credibility.

Obrador was a puppet of the utter lowlife,Hugo Chavez,and also Fidel Castro who apparently dreamed of spreading their propaganda to Mexico...can't say how much foreign funding he's getting now,but he's no different than Obama(whom you could call 'Negro Obrador').He supports passing out small handouts to the poor every month without ever instituting any policies that would help them escape their poverty,i.e.,he STRONGLY encourages idleness so that people will be dependent on him as a sugar daddy or some sort of imagined "Savior".If you look at where he's governed,so to speak,the poor in those areas are in precisely the same boat as they were 20 years ago...which is RIGHT where he's always wanted them.Like o-BUM-a,he's similar to a crack dealer who pretends to be benevolent by giving addicts free samples once in a while to keep them hooked because,if you ever rose above poverty to reach the middle class or even become rich,Obrador would be as worthless as teats on a bull to you since he doesn't actually lead or do anything substantive for you OR the country.

Back to the part you cared about,the Democrats have an impressive,diverse group of politicians on the municipal and state levels but,once you get to the federal levels,they march in lockstep with the militant pro-gay,pro-abortion and libertine extremists who generously fund their campaigns.For the record,Obama's Attorney General and close friend,waste-of-life Eric Holder,has made it open season on assault weapons sales to foreign countries such as mine.In fact,over 95% of automatic weapons down here came from what were deemed LEGAL sales in the US....so,if you choose to visit us on vacation,and then your wife/gf/child gets gunned down in gang crossfire,you may blame the hellspawn who fired the weapons and then say,'Thank you o-BUM-A/Holder' for the death of your loved one.

To clarify,I classify abortion extremists as those who decapitate a child who's 8 months in the womb so that they can get more tax-free money from research labs by harvesting the child's brain intact...or those who rationalize the killing of a fully-born child who happens to be missing a hand or a foot....Nietzsche and Mengele would be proud of the modern USA....Lastly,I understand why so many fear any connection between political leaders and religious organizations;the majority-Muslim nations offer ample forensic argument for such a separation.However,there's a distinction between being strung along by a religious ORGANIZATION and supporting certain religious VALUES.IMO,Abraham Lincoln was one of the best US presidents,perhaps THE best,and one of the most remarkable leaders of the past couple centuries...and he was intellectually brilliant and OPENLY cited the Bible and declared that it was a basis for his belief systems.

It's pretty clear that you Europeans hate,with a passion,any minute trace of religion or faith,but I'll remind you that there's an almost-visible line of demarcation between simpletons who blindly accept religious dogma...and inspired,wise individuals who choose to believe in some sort of Deity/Divine Moral Judge,many of whom are the heroes/heroines of yesteryear.It's only in the last 50 years that blanket religion-hating has become the 'flavor of the month',and I don't see much evidence that we're any morally superior now than we were before the trend...if anything,we might be a little bit WORSE.......That's all for now---I hope that at least one person enjoyed the info about my country
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

W(PE)TA: Women's Pathetic Enabler Tennis Association

LOOK! It's CLEAR; Carousel is a LIE! You don't HAVE to die! You can LIVE; LIVE and GROW OLD!
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 12th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #4594
country flag Achernar
Senior Member
 
Achernar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 600
Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future Achernar has a brilliant future
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
It's EXACTLY the same with the Democrats in the US [...]

That's all for now---I hope that at least one person enjoyed the info about my country
As I've said before, I enjoy reading about other countries, so I, for one, have found an interest to your digression And although I do not fully share your opinion about the Americans and their current president, I always have an interest in your POV about them. And I understand your feelings.

About religious beliefs, being a believer is not a problem in itself: it becomes a problem when religious leaders govern through elected politicians. Or when laws are written being inspired by centuries-old religious books that are no longer in tune with modern values.

I would add that atheists are far less numerous than your comment would suggest. Less than 5% of the worlwide population. Even in France more than 50% of the citizens declare being believers. In many Europeans countries, 70% to 90% of the population believes in God, or in some spirituality. Also, I don't think than being "moral" has anything to do with religious beliefs. Our moral behavior is much more related to our education and our social environment.
Achernar is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 12th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #4595
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,676
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
It's pretty clear that you Europeans hate,with a passion,any minute trace of religion or faith,but I'll remind you that there's an almost-visible line of demarcation between simpletons who blindly accept religious dogma...and inspired,wise individuals who choose to believe in some sort of Deity/Divine Moral Judge,many of whom are the heroes/heroines of yesteryear.It's only in the last 50 years that blanket religion-hating has become the 'flavor of the month',and I don't see much evidence that we're any morally superior now than we were before the trend...if anything,we might be a little bit WORSE.......That's all for now---I hope that at least one person enjoyed the info about my country
That's not true at all. We don't hate religion with a passion in Britain and I'm sure the same goes in Europe. Some of my best friends are religious - some are atheists. We all get on just fine and the idea we'd hate each other about it is absurd. I see there's a lot of hate on these boards against anyone religious. But GM and these boards is all about hate anyway and is not representative of people in the real world.

What we don't have here is religious dogma tied to power and politics trying to ram dogma down our throats.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 12th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #4596
Andreas
секси
 
Andreas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,450
Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute Andreas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Hey guys, it would be great if you could support a good cause and make a post in this thread: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=472014
__________________

VICTORIA AZARENKA
IVANOVIC, KONJUH, VEKIC, WOZNIACKI

Andreas is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 13th, 2012, 02:03 AM   #4597
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,626
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
That's not true at all. We don't hate religion with a passion in Britain and I'm sure the same goes in Europe. Some of my best friends are religious - some are atheists. We all get on just fine and the idea we'd hate each other about it is absurd. I see there's a lot of hate on these boards against anyone religious. But GM and these boards is all about hate anyway and is not representative of people in the real world.

What we don't have here is religious dogma tied to power and politics trying to ram dogma down our throats.
I chose my words very poorly above;obviously,not all Europeans hate any form of religion,and you'll probably believe me when I say that I didn't mean that.My intent was more in line what you touched on in the latter part of your first paragraph: Europeans who belong to blogs and forums invariably despise not only religion but,usually,its adherents.Even THAT isn't a complete absolute but,as you've surely noticed,it seems to be an overwhelming majority
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

W(PE)TA: Women's Pathetic Enabler Tennis Association

LOOK! It's CLEAR; Carousel is a LIE! You don't HAVE to die! You can LIVE; LIVE and GROW OLD!
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 13th, 2012, 02:16 AM   #4598
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,626
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achernar View Post
As I've said before, I enjoy reading about other countries, so I, for one, have found an interest to your digression And although I do not fully share your opinion about the Americans and their current president, I always have an interest in your POV about them. And I understand your feelings.

About religious beliefs, being a believer is not a problem in itself: it becomes a problem when religious leaders govern through elected politicians. Or when laws are written being inspired by centuries-old religious books that are no longer in tune with modern values.

I would add that atheists are far less numerous than your comment would suggest. Less than 5% of the worlwide population. Even in France more than 50% of the citizens declare being believers. In many Europeans countries, 70% to 90% of the population believes in God, or in some spirituality. Also, I don't think than being "moral" has anything to do with religious beliefs. Our moral behavior is much more related to our education and our social environment.
Thank you for your kind words AND your interest in Mexico

Don't have much to add except that,in the forensic sense,morals are not empirical facts so there's always an element of subjectivity to them and we can't literally PROVE that someone's morals are good or bad.

Also,I'll say that your statement about religious values being outdated is,itself,a mere belief that's no better or worse,forensically,than those ideas which you feel no longer have any value.Though you have lots of people who agree with you,there's also a vast multitude that strongly DISagrees.Even if you managed to win an academically well-organized debate against someone who disagreed with you,that wouldn't PROVE that you were right and your opponent wrong...that could simply be a case where your counterpart had poor debating skills......Personally,I don't feel threatened by the existence of opposing viewpoints b/c I have enough conviction in my own such that I don't need others to confirm by agreement.....but I'm definitely in the minority in THAT respect
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

W(PE)TA: Women's Pathetic Enabler Tennis Association

LOOK! It's CLEAR; Carousel is a LIE! You don't HAVE to die! You can LIVE; LIVE and GROW OLD!
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 14th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #4599
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,626
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Just found out yesterday that the word for 'larva' in Czech is very similar to how it is in English...except the Czech word has about 4 extra letters at the end
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

W(PE)TA: Women's Pathetic Enabler Tennis Association

LOOK! It's CLEAR; Carousel is a LIE! You don't HAVE to die! You can LIVE; LIVE and GROW OLD!
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 14th, 2012, 09:57 AM   #4600
country flag Chrissie-fan
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,135
Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
I chose my words very poorly above;obviously,not all Europeans hate any form of religion,and you'll probably believe me when I say that I didn't mean that.My intent was more in line what you touched on in the latter part of your first paragraph: Europeans who belong to blogs and forums invariably despise not only religion but,usually,its adherents.Even THAT isn't a complete absolute but,as you've surely noticed,it seems to be an overwhelming majority
Well, you know what type of people assemble at internet forums. And most bloggers only blog because they have something to bitch about. I don't think that most Europeans hate religion as such, but many have a "fuck if I care" attitude towards it. And of course the countless stories of child abuse associated with the catholic church made even more people cynical about it all. The one thing that annoys me about religion is when believers claim some sort of moral superiority. The above example plus the fact that millions upon millions all throughout history have murdered in the name of god pretty much put that one out the window I think. Of course I agree that you shouldn't kill, rape, torture, steal and the rest of it. But you don't need religion for that. All you need is a conscience.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki
You'll Never Walk Alone When You Have a Friend Like Serena Williams
Maria Sharapova, Li Na, Simona Halep, Aga Radwanska


Last edited by Chrissie-fan : Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
Chrissie-fan is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 14th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #4601
country flag bruce goose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,626
bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute bruce goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Well, you know what type of people assemble at internet forums. And most bloggers only blog because they have something to bitch about. I don't think that most Europeans hate religion as such, but many have a "fuck if I care" attitude towards it. And of course the countless stories of child abuse associated with the catholic church made even more people cynical about it all. The one thing that annoys me about religion is when believers claim some sort of moral superiority. The above example plus the fact that millions upon millions all throughout history have murdered in the name of god pretty much put that one out the window I think. Of course I agree that you shouldn't kill, rape, torture, steal and the rest of it. But you don't need religion for that. All you need is a conscience.
"Religion",in the purest,most relevant definition,is a system of beliefs that one feels is fundamental to existence.In that more honest sense,atheism,evolutionism,humanism,capitalism and socialism are religions,for those who blindly and unquestioningly adhere to their theories,just as the more 'traditional' religions are.Of course you are correct that merely being religious is no reliable indicator of one's moral integrity.

As you may have guessed,the Vatican's shameful,guaranteed-to-continue legacy of sexual abuse is not limited to Europe.As a general rule,I've found that sexual abuse of women and children is far more common in religions such as Catholcism,Islam,Mormonism,etc.(haven't done a thorough compare/contrast study) where the minister--or WhateverTF title he/she has--has an inordinate amount of power and authority.In THEORY,at least,the spiritual minister is supposed to be God's humble servant,but there are so many immensely contrasting cases where said minister is treated as God's direct Messenger,and you are commanded to obey without questioning.In certain Islamic countries such as Pakistan,you may be executed on the first offense for 'blaspheming' some illiterate dead guy named mohammed who admitted that he was a mere mortal and that he had sinned during his life(i.e.,he wasn't perfect...as if we had any doubts).Apparently,even a single witness is enough to effect that death sentence in Pakistan(so you could legally kill any non-Muslim you had a grudge against merely by concocting a lie,if you wanted),and the 'guilty' person is given no chance to repent of his/her 'crime'...but I digress...

As someone who worked in the prison system for years,I can speak with authority on the criminal mindset and many psychological patterns.Child molestors and other sexual predators virtually always scheme for opportunities to prey upon the vulnerable.If a rapist sees a drug lord's attractive daughter that he desires control over,he'll find someone ELSE to rape--no matter how strong his lust might be--because he fears the consequences of HIS becoming a helpless victim if he gets caught by someone who has the power to enforce brutal vengeance upon him.It's been the testimony of MANY pedophiles that they actually converted to Catholicism with aims on becoming a priest b/c they KNEW that the Vatican would shield them from prosecution.Indeed,the Vatican's M.O. has been to transfer the pedophile to another parish cuz,if they defrocked him,he might go public and claim that they were aware of his vile sickness and did nothing about it.As the RCC is more concerned about maintaining its pure,holy image(yeah,I know;try not to laugh at that sickening premise),they'd rather transfer the pervert with the insane hope that he might be 'cured' instead of notifying the legal authorities who might then,in turn,inform the newspapers of what had happened.Even worse,the transferred perverts are not forbidden access to women and children in the new parish,and the parishioners are not warned of the threat in their midst.There are countries who will criminally prosecute the hierarchy who shield a sexual predator,but it must be proven,beyond reasonable doubt,that they KNEW of his wicked deeds...and that's usually a big challenge to establish.

Let me close by saying that I don't hate all Catholics(I'd have to hate about 90% of my countryfolk to do that).I know quite a few "rank-and-file" Catholics who are sincere,decent people.However,to reach the UPPER hierarchy in the RCC,one must be complicit in the rampant,greedy corruption and abuse that they have perpetuated over the centuries.If you had ANY conscience at all,you'd reject seeking any sort of brotherhood with such lowlifes.....At the risk of sounding arrogant,I don't struggle to find female companionship but,even if aye DID,I would never marry a devout Catholic gal...it wouldn't matter if she were the most gorgeous Latina goddess with a pleasant personality: I couldn't live with myself if anyone taught our children to swear blind allegiance to those Vatican smegma...nor could I throw away my money by tithing to the slimiest thieves on the planet...just couldn't do it
__________________
Propaganda Director for the Olympic Slam Queen aboard SS Dementieva

Ste. Kim, we didn't have you for long enough, but we appreciate what you gave us

W(PE)TA: Women's Pathetic Enabler Tennis Association

LOOK! It's CLEAR; Carousel is a LIE! You don't HAVE to die! You can LIVE; LIVE and GROW OLD!
bruce goose is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 15th, 2012, 08:34 AM   #4602
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,676
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Well, you know what type of people assemble at internet forums. And most bloggers only blog because they have something to bitch about. I don't think that most Europeans hate religion as such, but many have a "fuck if I care" attitude towards it. And of course the countless stories of child abuse associated with the catholic church made even more people cynical about it all. The one thing that annoys me about religion is when believers claim some sort of moral superiority. The above example plus the fact that millions upon millions all throughout history have murdered in the name of god pretty much put that one out the window I think. Of course I agree that you shouldn't kill, rape, torture, steal and the rest of it. But you don't need religion for that. All you need is a conscience.
I know some deeply religious people and none of them claim moral superiority. We get on reallly well. Also it cuts both ways the atrocities committed in the name of religion. There have been appalling atrocities committed in the name of atheism in Russia/China. I would never single out crimes by religious people as being worse or better than other crimes.

On a day to day level - I think the only thing that I have a problem with is the hell doctrine and good people going to hell just because they don't believe. I sort of think - do you really believe that? We never discuss that. Never go there. I wouldn't want to.

On the subject of evil - how can someone just go into a school and kill schoolchildren and teachers there. I cannot imagine being able to cope with something like that if I lost people I loved like that. I don't care how mentally disturbed he was or what troubles he was going through - how could he do that? That was just pure evil.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 15th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #4603
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,676
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

On the subject of Americans, Europeans and religion - reminds me of something that happened several years ago. I was coming back in the plane from the States after staying with my sister and her children. She lives in the States.

Anyway I was on my own and next to this couple. And the lady asks me about my holiday, where I've been. And I tell her we went off to Mount Desert Island for a week and then she says she was also there and teaching the joys of a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. And then she asks me if I have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and I reply I used to believe but I don't anymore. And then she goes "Oh snatched away by the Prince of Darkness..." Anyway - she tries asking a few more questions to convert me back - but I have a book to read and I'm not really interested in this conversation. After a little while - she swaps places with the man she's with (who incidentally remained completely silent). She'd obviously given up on me as lost to the dark side and didn't want to sit next to me.

Anyway - I relayed the story to my sister when I got back. And she goes - why didn't you call the flight attendant and complain you were being harrassed? The thought never entered my head. That advice from both the lady on the plane and my sister I can quite happily ignore. It's obviously a huge generalisation but complaining like my sister would - is that more an American thing?
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 15th, 2012, 09:52 AM   #4604
country flag Chrissie-fan
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Chrissie-fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,135
Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute Chrissie-fan has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by terjw View Post
I know some deeply religious people and none of them claim moral superiority. We get on reallly well. Also it cuts both ways the atrocities committed in the name of religion. There have been appalling atrocities committed in the name of atheism in Russia/China. I would never single out crimes by religious people as being worse or better than other crimes.

On a day to day level - I think the only thing that I have a problem with is the hell doctrine and good people going to hell just because they don't believe. I sort of think - do you really believe that? We never discuss that. Never go there. I wouldn't want to.

On the subject of evil - how can someone just go into a school and kill schoolchildren and teachers there. I cannot imagine being able to cope with something like that if I lost people I loved like that. I don't care how mentally disturbed he was or what troubles he was going through - how could he do that? That was just pure evil.
I don't single out crimes by religious people as worse as those from others either. I only mentionned it to say that the're no better or worse than the rest of us.

When it comes to the hell doctrine, well, at least when it comes to the Christian faith it all depends on what the bible says about it, don't it? If you claim to be "a true Christian" you can't go, "Ok, I like this part, so I'll believe it, but I don't believe this part because I don't like it." As far as I'm concerned you either believe all of it or none of it.

Problem is that most Christians really haven't got a clue about what's in the bible. At the most they are familiar with certain parts of it. Time has erased most of what I've read from my mind, but in my younger days I've read quite a bit of it, including the prophecies - Daniel and Revelations especially, the last of which is incomprehensible to most because they can't make heads or tails of the symbolism in the book. But with the help of some books I've managed to plow my way through it and I've learned that all the syumbols that are in the bible are actually explained in the bible itself. In other words, "the bible always explains itself."

Anyway, to cut a long (and no doubt boring ) story short, Revelation is about the evils of world religions, the false prophet, the anti-Christ, how you'll be able to recognoze him when he arrives on the scene (the famous 666 number of the beast), how this figure who is actually a representation of Satan will deceive the world into thinking that he's God, the return of Christ after a 3 1/2 year rule of this anti-Christ figure, predictions of plagues, wars, earthquakes and much, much more. Fascinating stuff, and things that most of those that call themselves Christians are totally unaware off.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki
You'll Never Walk Alone When You Have a Friend Like Serena Williams
Maria Sharapova, Li Na, Simona Halep, Aga Radwanska

Chrissie-fan is offline View My Blog!  
Old Dec 15th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #4605
country flag terjw
Senior Member
 
terjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,676
terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute terjw has a reputation beyond repute
Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I don't single out crimes by religious people as worse as those from others either. I only mentionned it to say that the're no better or worse than the rest of us.

When it comes to the hell doctrine, well, at least when it comes to the Christian faith it all depends on what the bible says about it, don't it? If you claim to be "a true Christian" you can't go, "Ok, I like this part, so I'll believe it, but I don't believe this part because I don't like it." As far as I'm concerned you either believe all of it or none of it.

Problem is that most Christians really haven't got a clue about what's in the bible. At the most they are familiar with certain parts of it. Time has erased most of what I've read from my mind, but in my younger days I've read quite a bit of it, including the prophecies - Daniel and Revelations especially, the last of which is incomprehensible to most because they can't make heads or tails of the symbolism in the book. But with the help of some books I've managed to plow my way through it and I've learned that all the syumbols that are in the bible are actually explained in the bible itself. In other words, "the bible always explains itself."

Anyway, to cut a long (and no doubt boring ) story short, Revelation is about the evils of world religions, the false prophet, the anti-Christ, how you'll be able to recognoze him when he arrives on the scene (the famous 666 number of the beast), how this figure who is actually a representation of Satan will deceive the world into thinking that he's God, the return of Christ after a 3 1/2 year rule of this anti-Christ figure, predictions of plagues, wars, earthquakes and much, much more. Fascinating stuff, and things that most of those that call themselves Christians are totally unaware off.
OK - but leaving aside the book of Revelations which could mean anything - what I meant to say about hell being a problem is that logically if you think your friends are going to hell because they don't believe - that should drive you to try to convert them. And evangelists who try to do that to me are a real turn off. So if you want to be friends with others - you don't try to convert them. But ... You see where I'm coming from here. It's not really me with the problem. We are friends because we are friends - nothing else. But I just think that must be a conflict in their minds not to try to convert me if they really believe the gospel which the bible states (unless you interpret it as a Universalist).

One thing all this reminds me of is the hatred Margaret Court has got on this forum and elsewhere for her views on gay marriage etc. which are based on deep religious conviction. I also saw an open letter from Nav arguing with her. What was the point of that? To try to make her change her mind? The person I have the most respect for on this is BJK. She couldn't disagree more with Margaret Court but they are friends for friends sake. They see each other and they don't talk about that stuff and try to convert each other. Of course the claim on these boards is when Margaret Court stated she was friends with those who don't share her views is that she is only friends to try to convert them. I think BJK would disagree.
__________________
Caroline Wozniacki

Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Kim Clijsters
terjw is offline View My Blog!  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios