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Old Nov 29th, 2012, 12:56 AM   #16
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Well, that's another part of the problem. Without a gun to make him feel like a big man, this guy probably wouldn't have said jack.
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Old Dec 3rd, 2012, 07:34 PM   #17
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Melissa Harris-Perry Mourns Death Of Jordan Davis (VIDEO)

By Katherine Fung | Posted: 12/02/2012 11:43 am EST



Melissa Harris-Perry mourned the death of Jordan Davis, an unarmed black teenager shot and killed in Florida, on Saturday.

Davis, a 17-year old boy, was shot by Michael David Dunn last week during an exchange about loud music at a gas station. Dunn fired shots into the SUV where Davis was in the backseat, claiming that he saw a shotgun in the car. No shotgun has been found and Dunn has been charged with second degree murder.

On Saturday, Harris-Perry drew parallels between Davis' death and the killing of Trayvon Martin, a black teenager who was also unarmed when he was shot and killed by George Zimmermann earlier this year. One similarity, she said, was "that sense for those of us who know them and love them that this country is no place for young black men."

Citing the gruesome murder of Emmett Till in the 1950s, she said that one thing has remained the same over generations of American history: "No presumption of innocence for young black men, no benefit of the doubt. Guilt not determined by what they did or said but presumed to be inherent in their very being. They need not wield a weapon to pose a threat because if you are a young black man, you are threat enough."

Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2227793.html)
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Old Dec 3rd, 2012, 08:16 PM   #18
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Quote:
Originally Posted by JN View Post
Melissa Harris-Perry Mourns Death Of Jordan Davis (VIDEO)

By Katherine Fung | Posted: 12/02/2012 11:43 am EST



Melissa Harris-Perry mourned the death of Jordan Davis, an unarmed black teenager shot and killed in Florida, on Saturday.

Davis, a 17-year old boy, was shot by Michael David Dunn last week during an exchange about loud music at a gas station. Dunn fired shots into the SUV where Davis was in the backseat, claiming that he saw a shotgun in the car. No shotgun has been found and Dunn has been charged with second degree murder.

On Saturday, Harris-Perry drew parallels between Davis' death and the killing of Trayvon Martin, a black teenager who was also unarmed when he was shot and killed by George Zimmermann earlier this year. One similarity, she said, was "that sense for those of us who know them and love them that this country is no place for young black men."

Citing the gruesome murder of Emmett Till in the 1950s, she said that one thing has remained the same over generations of American history: "No presumption of innocence for young black men, no benefit of the doubt. Guilt not determined by what they did or said but presumed to be inherent in their very being. They need not wield a weapon to pose a threat because if you are a young black man, you are threat enough."

Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2227793.html)
I will never understand the inherent fear that people experience with young Black youths, who are not harassing anyone, to the point of lethality.
It's as if these offenders need to feel superior and see a right to let off steam in killing someone.
These were kids out enjoying one another's company.
Not threatening anyone.
And then to outright lie about these kids carrying a shotgun to feign justification?!

There are modified high-rise trucks with White teens in them blasting Rock-n-Roll music and no one bats an eye. So why the extreme hatred and fear of Black youths playing loud music? It's crazy!!
A family just lost a son, brother, loved one, over music?!
Such a sad culture we have here in the US.
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Old Dec 3rd, 2012, 08:41 PM   #19
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Black students in Tallahassee demand ‘Justice for Jordan Davis’

By Staff | December 2, 2012



Candles spell out justice at vigil for Jordan Davis (Fight Back! News/Staff)


Black student organizations demand justice for Jordan Davis

Tallahassee, FL - On Dec. 1, just after sunset, Black student organizations from Florida State University (FSU) and Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University (FAMU) held a candlelight vigil for Jordan Davis. Davis, a 17-year-old Black teen was violently gunned down in Jacksonville while in the backseat of a friend's car by a middle-aged white male bigot, supposedly over the volume of the car's music.

On Nov. 23, Michael Dunn unloaded a vicious barrage of eight shots into a SUV parked in a Duval County gas station. Two rounds struck and killed young Davis. Although arrested the next day at his south Florida home, the Dunn defense relys on Florida’s Stand Your Ground law for protection from justice.

Although the vigil did not directly address this law, it did address the system which demonizes black males as a threat to the white-supremacist system. Reminiscent of vigils for the hate-crime homicide of Trayvon Martin, the mostly Black, 50-student vigil heard speeches condemning the deep-seeded and perpetual association of Black being an inherent threat - an association solely supported by a crutch of bigotry.

Kristen Bonner, president of Dream Defenders at FSU spoke to the crowd, saying “I'm tired. Tired of Black skin being associated with adjectives such as threatening, suspicious and dangerous. I'm tired of only knowing that these Black youth have existed because they are dead.”

Also present at the vigil were leaders from FAMU Dream Defenders, Progressive Black Men INC. and the Black Student Union at FSU. Shantel Moten, Assistant Director of Pride at FSU (an LGBTQ student organization) said in her speech, “We need to fight back against the white hetero-patriarchal system.”

FightBack!News (http://www.fightbacknews.org/2012/12...e-jordan-davis)
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Old Dec 3rd, 2012, 08:45 PM   #20
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVD View Post
I will never understand the inherent fear that people experience with young Black youths, who are not harassing anyone, to the point of lethality.
It's as if these offenders need to feel superior and see a right to let off steam in killing someone.
These were kids out enjoying one another's company.
Not threatening anyone.
And then to outright lie about these kids carrying a shotgun to feign justification?!

There are modified high-rise trucks with White teens in them blasting Rock-n-Roll music and no one bats an eye. So why the extreme hatred and fear of Black youths playing loud music? It's crazy!!
A family just lost a son, brother, loved one, over music?!
Such a sad culture we have here in the US.
You said it, chief.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 02:13 AM   #21
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Post-racial America, my gluteus maximus. Write down the license plate number and call the police.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #22
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

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Originally Posted by JN View Post
Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Posted: 11:04 a.m. Tuesday, Nov. 27, 2012 |
Updated: 5:05 p.m. Tuesday, Nov. 27, 2012

View Larger

Jordan Davis was shot at a gas station in Jacksonville.

View Larger

Michael Dunn is accused of killing a 17-year-old in an argument over loud music.

A man is facing murder and attempted murder charges for allegedly shooting a 17-year-old student at a Jacksonville gas station in a dispute over loud music.

The suspect, Michael Dunn, told police he felt threatened during an argument Friday with Jordan Davis after Dunn complained the music the teen was playing in his car was too loud.

Jacksonville homicide Lt. Rob Schoonover said Dunn pulled out a weapon and started firing into the vehicle. Davis was shot a few times. Eight or nine bullet holes were also found in the car.

Davis was originally from Marietta and will be buried there, the Florida Times-Union reported.

“Our suspect produced a weapon and started firing into the vehicle. Our victim was shot a couple of times,” Schoonover said. “ … They were listening to the music. It was loud; they [other teens] admitted that. But I mean that is not a reason for someone to open fire on them.”

The Times-Union reported that Dunn and his girlfriend allegedly drove to their hotel in Jacksonville, then returned home to Brevard County when they heard about the shooting on the news.

Dunn has pleaded not guilty. He was officially booked into the Duval County Jail on Tuesday afternoon and is expected to make a court appearance Wednesday morning.

Jordan was a student at Samuel W. Wolfson High School, a magnet school in Duval County.

Florida corporate records show Dunn is vice president of Dunn & Dunn Data Systems in Vero Beach, the Orlando Sentinel reported. He supervises software development, according to his LinkedIn profile.

Atlanta Journal Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/florida...d-music/nTGZ8/)


RIP young brother. Thanks to confessed murderer George Zimmerman it's open season on Black male teens in Florida. Funny it's always the one with the gun who feels threatened.

Rest in Peace Young Black Man...
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #23
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

It is always Florida
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #24
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Seriously? What the fuck? The worst kind of murder is one with no planning, hope he gets sent away for a LONG time.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #25
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Jordan Davis Shooting Death Reignites 'Stand Your Ground' Law Repeal Push

By Janell Ross | Posted: 12/04/2012 9:39 pm EST Updated: 12/05/2012 11:06 am EST



Two days after Jordan Davis’s parents buried the body of their 17-year-old son in the Georgia ground, a campaign to repeal "Stand Your Ground" laws in Florida and elsewhere appears to be gaining steam.

Davis was shot to death in Jacksonville, Fla., on Nov. 23 after Michael Dunn, 45, said he felt threatened by the two black teenagers and one young black man sitting with Davis in an SUV. Dunn told police he argued with the group over the volume of their music, saw a shotgun emerge from one of the SUV’s windows then, fired his handgun eight or nine times before fleeing. Three of Dunn’s bullets struck and killed Davis, a lawyer for the boy’s family said Tuesday. Police said those in the SUV were unarmed.

Police charged Dunn, a software engineer, with murder and attempted murder one day after the shooting. He remains in jail. Dunn's lawyer has indicated he will build a defense around Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, which gives shooters the right to use deadly force when they feel threatened and does not require them to retreat. Florida’s law sparked a state inquiry, a federal Civil Rights Commission investigation, public protests and intense political wrangling in other states after the February killing of unarmed Trayvon Martin, also 17 and black, by a neighborhood watchman.

The killing of Davis has prompted gun control advocates and civil rights groups to renew arguments that Stand Your Ground laws make ordinary citizens feel empowered to shoot first and ask questions later, boosting murder rates and justifiable homicide claims, muddling prosecutions and putting young black men -- people too often presumed to be a threat -- in particular peril. Civil rights groups, including Color of Change, the NAACP and the Urban League, as well gun control groups such as the Second Chance on Shoot First campaign, have joined forces to gather online signatures for a repeal of Stand Your Ground laws in 26 states. The groups also plan to restart a campaign to lobby state legislatures in January, said Ginny Simmons, director of Second Chance.

Stand Your Ground policies have the odd effect of giving average citizens more legal leeway to shoot at others than either the nation’s police or armed forces have, said Simmons.

“What we are doing with these laws is allowing our country to become more dangerous than a war zone,” Simmons said.

Rashad Robinson is the executive director of Color of Change, a nonprofit organization that worked last year to expose the National Rifle Association’s role in getting Stand Your Ground policies approved, and the NRA’s relationship with the American Legislative Council, or ALEC. ALEC is a conservative political organization that suggests template legislation, including Stand Your Ground proposals, to right-leaning lawmakers.

“Unfortunately, we have had another one of these tragic incidents that highlights how horrible these laws are and how dangerous they can be in that they empower vigilantes and provide them cover," Robinson said. "We also live in a cultural environment in which young black men are feared and seen as a sort of universal threat. Their mere existence, is for some people a problem. That’s the cultural climate in which these laws have been implemented.”

If those ideas are the cultural equivalent of widely distributed gunpowder, Stand Your Ground laws lit the fuse, Robinson said.

The NRA did not respond to a request for comment Tuesday. The gun rights and education group has claimed that the laws both deter crime and provide legal protection for shooters who feel that they are in danger.

The problem with Stand Your Ground laws is not just how they are understood by legislators or gun owners, Robinson said. They have also produced another kind of unequal justice, he said.

In states with Stand Your Ground laws, 34 percent of white shooters did not face charges or have not been convicted after shooting a black person, an Urban Institute analysis found. Just 3 percent of black shooters got the same treatment after shooting a white person and making a Stand Your Ground claim, according to the Urban Institute report. And in Florida, the national pioneer, justifiable homicides grew by nearly 195 percent since the law took effect in 2005, FBI data shows.

Davis’ parents, through their lawyer, haven't claimed their son's skin color had to do with his death. But they said they stand ready to do whatever necessary to roll back Stand Your Ground laws in Florida and other states because of the public danger that they create, an attorney for the family said.

“I hate to quote George Bush here, but they want this to be a uniter, not a divider,” said John M. Philips, a white Jacksonville-area lawyer who typically handles personal injury and wrongful death cases but has stepped in to represent Davis’ parents and act as a spokesman while they grieve. “They want America to understand that this could have been anyone’s son.”

President Barack Obama was criticized in March after he said publicly that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin -- young, black and possibly even wearing a hoodie. Obama made the comments while expressing sympathy for Martin’s parents and concern about the loss that too many black parents must fear.

A 2012 Texas A &M University study distributed by the National Bureau of Economic Research, found that Stand Your Ground laws in Florida and 19 other states failed to deter violent crime. The study found a clear increase in homicides in those states -- with up to 700 additional killings nationwide each year. It is unclear how many of those slain were people of color.

“I think it’s hard to wrap you head around what this law means until you are talking about real names and real people,” said Simmons with Second Chance. “After Trayvon Martin and after Jordan Davis, people actually know those stories and know that in the nation’s leading Stand Your Ground state, a teenager listening to music in a car died. Unfortunately, that’s very powerful. After Trayvon, there is no question that there was a momentum shift."

From 2005, when Florida passed the nation's first Stand Your Ground law, to 2011, 25 states have adopted some version of the NRA-backed law, Simmons said. This year has marked the first year since 2005 when no new laws were passed. One state, Indiana, expanded its existing Stand Your Ground law and Louisiana clarified its policy requiring police and prosecutors to fully investigate cases where defendants claim self-defense.

Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2240764.html)
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #26
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Racism is a psychological disorder, I think it really needs to be studied and classified psychologically as such. A worldview that allows you to fire 8 times into a car with four teenagers, feel no remorse, and go back to your middle class existence like nothing happen before being apprehended. Racism makes people lose their humanity.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #27
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

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Racism is a psychological disorder, I think it really needs to be studied and classified psychologically as such. A worldview that allows you to fire 8 times into a car with four teenagers, feel no remorse, and go back to your middle class existence like nothing happen before being apprehended. Racism makes people lose their humanity.
It's possible that they take the same line of approach from cops around the country.

And I agree that such a remorseless act extends beyond the scope of solely racism, and certainly borders on a psychological pathology.
Again, I believe that many cops suffer from a very similar pathology, as many are ex-military, or are driven by extreme or excessive ego, or illogical sense of justice.
Not all of course, but far more than I believed.
It would be interesting to discuss these possibilities with their department psychiatrists. But I seriously doubt that would ever happen.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #28
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

There are a lot of factors at play. There have also been some studies that suggest segregation (which is a legacy of racism, of course) make it harder for some people to "read" people from a different ethnic group. (Speaking as a large white guy, I sometimes have to say I get looks of major fear for no reason I can discern when I encounter Hispanics and black in my neighborhood). And I know that happens to nonwhite friends of mine all the time, especially the larger male ones.

Now, most of us would assume that a carload of kids listening to music is probably not a threat. (An annoyance, maybe, but isn't that why every teenage boy in the history of EVER jacks up the stereo in his car and plays it too loud?) But if you are scared of a group of black kids, why do you go and hassle them? Unless you have a gun and are looking for trouble? And you're too ignorant to be able to tell the difference between a bunch of normal boys cuttin' up and boys are inclined to do, or kids who are genuinely hard cases?

Just shut up, pump your gas and leave.
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #29
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

Can someone from Florida please tell me how the "Stand Your Ground" law came about?
And I mean the honest to goodness unbiased 'truth'. Not the publicized or legally documented account.

So far, I'm finding the following justifications no matter where I search:
Quote:
Reports on the case have cited a recent change in Florida law, enacting the principle called “stand your ground.” This is a radical modern distortion of an old common-law doctrine. The old “castle doctrine” held that someone attacked in his or her own home had no “duty to retreat” before using deadly force to repel an attack. The idea behind it was that a person confronted at home literally has no place to go and need not try to run away if facing an immediate threat of violence.

In recent years, gun groups have successfully convinced state legislatures to expand the doctrine outside the home. Florida’s statute now says that a “person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.” A person who uses deadly force “is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force.” “Stand your ground laws” have spread across states in the West and South.

Florida’s district attorneys are not thrilled by the law. One told The New York Times that “the consequences of the law have been devastating around the state. It’s almost insane what we are having to deal with.”
http://prospect.org/article/history-...our-ground-law
This law sounds like a means to circumventing criminal intent. Or stated another way...
A quick and dirty method of killing with discrimination and avoiding criminal prosecution.

The reasons can be highly subjective which would allow the guilty to evade prosecution.


Also, I'm curious whether this law ('the right to carry and use') applies to all Floridians, or are there requirements that have to be met? (i.e. background checks, past criminal records, psyche testing, etc...)

I ask because it seems as though no background sanity checks are performed, and the people doing the shooting appear on the surface to lack rational judgement.

Also, have there been deaths reported where the victim wasn't Black?
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Old Dec 5th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #30
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Re: Here we go again: Florida teen killed in dispute over loud music

I'm from Florida. There were some trials that were well publicized where the people killed someone else in self-defense outside the home, but the prosecutor charged them anyway, claiming that they had the duty and the ability to retreat, which was then the law. The cases were very sympathetic to the defendant in that it was upstanding types and the dead person was a career criminal in the middle of some crime, etc. They were extreme cases, nothing like the two pending now. These people were having to stand trial and explain how they didn't think they could retreat or it happened so fast, they didn't have time to figure out a retreat. Then the prosecutors were arguing that they could have retreated, second guessing the defendant's mental state in a moment of emergency. I think all of these people were acquitted, but a murder trial is horrible and people felt sorry for them. There was a public thought that if the duty to retreat didn't exist, people like this wouldn't have to stand trial and if they had to prove self-defense anyway, who cares about the duty to retreat. So, everyone was all in favor of it, that if someone attacks you in public, you don't to second guess defending yourself.

A white chick plugged her ex or estranged husband about a year ago and tried to use stand your ground in Seminole County in front of the old Trayvon Martin judge, but it was denied, she's going to trial and have to prove inability to retreat to a jury.
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