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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:16 AM   #61
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

OK, sorry for all the confusion I caused by the thread title. It was meant as a reference to TF "slang" because people often use the words BBB and pusher more or less interchangeable for aggressive and defensive game style, which isn't quite accurate of course.

Now if someone creates a list please just add if you rank the players based on who's got the most BBB-like game style or on who you think is most aggressive.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:23 AM   #62
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exordes View Post
Here´s what two experts said in 2009: http://youtu.be/hrxgoD1WCtA...
The experts have spoken. So Vika officially is a BBB, I'll have to remember that when someone calls her a pusher again.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #63
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

1. Petra Kvitova
2. Li Na
3. Maria Sharapova
4. Serena Williams
5. Sam Stosur
6. Victoria Azareanka
7. Angelique Kerber
8. Caroline Wozniacki
9. Sara Errani
10. Agnieszka Radwanska

Last edited by Andy. : Dec 4th, 2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:37 AM   #64
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

1) Li Na as an ultimate ballbasher
2) Kvitova , just can't control her aggression
3) Serena Williams (can turn into ultimate ballbasher when under mental pressure)
4) Sharapova (same as Serena)
5) Stosur
6) Azarenka , being overpowered turns into pusher , against low ranked players or underpowered is agressive
7) Errani (she is just too small and always overpowered by big girls , but she prefers to hit winners when in good positions)
8) Kerber - she is more like counterpuncher, but if she is not provided with fast balls from the opponent she is abolutely useless
9) Radwanska
10) Wozniacki
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #65
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Something like this.....

1. Li
2. Kvitova
3. Sharapova
4. Williams
5. Stosur
6. Azarenka
7. Kerber
8. Radwanska
9. Errani
10. Wozniacki

Some probably consider it a compliment to be at or near the top of the list and an insult to be in the lower regions, but I don't think that either one is true. I don't see why, say, Wozniacki's defensive game is a negative while I should get excited because on a bad day Li and Kvitova play baseball instead of tennis.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #66
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

I my book, pushing and BBB'ing are two different dimensions:

BBB

1 Li (not a real hard hitter, but as brainless as they come)
2 Sharapova (when off, she is the ultimate BBB)
3 Kvitova (too much technical versatility for a pure BBB, but she comes damn close)
4 Williams (when off, she sprays just like the worst BBB, however, she is able to switch back to tennis eventually)
5 Stosur (she is half a BBB all the time)
6 Azarenka (when off, she hits flat and wild and almost as hard as Li)
7 Wozniacki (at least this season, she tried the Way Of The BBB several times, and her UE's looked very promising)

Pusher
1 Wozniacki (when she is on, she is almost the ultimate pusher)
2 Errani (not a pure pusher, but she has the right mentality)
3 Radwanska (classical tactical player who looks like a pusher more often than not)
4 Sharapova (against BBB's, especially on slow surfaces, she can become a quite convincing if a little slow pusher)
5 Williams (quite achieved tactical pusher)
6 Kerber (her game looks quite "pushy", but all matches she tries to push, she loses)
7 Azarenka (she becomes a pusher when overpowered by a solid hard-hitting rallying player, but not a good pusher
8 Stosur (half a pusher half the time)
9 Li (a tiny little bit like Williams, but without the patience)
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 08:51 AM   #67
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Something like this.....

1. Li
2. Kvitova
3. Sharapova
4. Williams
5. Stosur
6. Azarenka
7. Kerber
8. Radwanska
9. Errani
10. Wozniacki

Some probably consider it a compliment to be at or near the top of the list and an insult to be in the lower regions, but I don't think that either one is true. I don't see why, say, Wozniacki's defensive game is a negative while I should get excited because on a bad day Li and Kvitova play baseball instead of tennis.
I don't think it's an insult to be at the top or bottom, we're just comparing how the top 10 games stack up against each other. (The term BBB and pusher are too broad,IMO) Some are more offensive minded(kvitova) and others are more defensive minded(Radwanska)while one player has the best of both worlds(Serena). One strategy may be more useful than another depending on the surface or at a specific time in a match.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #68
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
I don't see why, say, Wozniacki's defensive game is a negative while I should get excited because on a bad day Li and Kvitova play baseball instead of tennis.
baseball Na
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 11:33 AM   #69
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Nana View Post
baseball Na
Well, you know that I love her. And she'll probably be the first athlete in history to be inducted in both the tennis and baseball HOF.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #70
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissie-fan View Post
Well, you know that I love her. And she'll probably be the first athlete in history to be inducted in both the tennis and baseball HOF.
never seen an home run like hers
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #71
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DomenicDemaria View Post
The title of the thread says rate players from ball bashers to pusher yet the first post says from most aggressive to the most defensive. If my book they are two different things. Li and Kvitova are the biggest ball bashers but I still think Serena is the most aggressive player on tour.
Nope!! She just drives a BMW which has seven gears, she can literally switch gears instantly if she feels threatened, she's amongst the few players who can switch in the middle of a match, i.e. confidence & belief (she has a strategy for every player she faces i.e. she can be a pusher or BB or both )
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #72
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

I think Sam is the most difficult to rank. She could either be 1-2 (balloons everything out) or 8-10 (loops up the FH and innocuously slices the BH from deep behind the baseline) on her various bad days.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #73
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

From BBB to pusher:

1. Kvitova
2. Sharapova
3. Serena
4. Li Na
5. Stosur
6. Azarenka
7. Kerber
8. Aga
9. Wozniacki
10. Errani
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #74
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetadri06 View Post
I don't agree with Li being like Clisjters, i mean Li can counterpunch at times but her natural game is to go for the winner immediately. why do you think she has such shit shows? When she is off her balls go into the stands. Clijsters will work the point alot more before delivering a blow.
This isn't true though. Watch her best matches against Sharapova, Kvitova, Venus and Serena -- time and time again, she is content to start off the point by just hitting pedestrian shots down the middle of the court and allow her opponent to get the first strike, Na chases those first few blows down and redirects them into the extremities of the court. Again, I'm not saying she's a pusher, she's at the more offensive-minded end of the counter-punchers spectrum, but there's a reason she matches up so well with those players I mentioned who hate playing counterpunchers. And it goes for Li's bad match-ups too -- if she was this monstrous flat-hitter that people here think she is, she would match up well with Stosur like players of that ilk do, yet in reality she hates playing her because she doesn't get the first strike in against her, and it's well-documented that you can't counterpunch against heavy topspin (as Zvonareva finds out when she plays Stosur).

And, further, even when Li is at her most aggressive, her brand of aggression is more about using the width of the court, creating space, and stroking the ball into the open court once she's got her opponent out of position. She's NEVER been about blasting the ball at a trillion miles an hour on the first shot of the rally, a la Kvitova.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @danieln1 View Post
But when Li is on "ErrorNa" mode, what is she counterpunching?

I think she´s going too much for her shots when this happens, and she becomes a brainless ballbasher by the instant.

Example: the 6-0 set she lost against Hingis in Melbourne 07, Miami 12 QF and many more
Li's error-sprees are usually more about her mentally checking out of the match completely and her footwork completely dissolving, rather than her going for low-% shots. She can miss even the most regulation shots that she's just trying to get into court on her worst days, especially off her technically-poor forehand side.

Last edited by dsanders06 : Dec 4th, 2012 at 04:03 PM.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #75
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Re: Rank the top 10 players from "BBB" to "pusher"

Absolute rubbish. Li for a start doesn't move half as well as any innate counter-puncher. A strong, powerful mover, but she's nowhere near as supple as Jankovic, Pennetta, Bondarenko, Myskina, post 2007-Demetieva, and nor is she as reliant on it. Her shot selection isn't anywhere near as conservative as a true-counter puncher, she hits with much more width, she goes for often low % shots (especially on her FH), her footwork is incredibly aggressive around the ball, and her instincts are to land blows as early as she can in the rally. Now this does not mean first-strike tennis in the ilk of Davenport, but it does NOT mean she's a counter-puncher. She's an aggressive ball-striker who can RALLY. There is a distinct difference and a fundamental gamestyle that isn't even related to a counter-puncher.

No counter-puncher would ever spray the amount of shit she can on court. The margins that a counter-puncher plays with are huge, relying on consistency off the ground and deflecting pace. Li can generate her own pace for a start. Do people really think Li was 'counter-punching' against Schiavone's junk and loop in the RG final? Or when she beat Wozniacki in Australia? Or when she demolished the ultimate puff-baller Radwanska in Cincinnatti? Or when she demolished Azarenka in the AO and RG in 2011? She was playing, aggressive, authoritative tennis that had the luxury of above-average athleticism to allow her to rally effectively. But that is not counter-punching. Counter-punching as a game-style needs to be the primary instinct of a player, not just one vague characteristic.

It's absolutely ridiculous.
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