[HippityHop]

Originally Posted by jameshazza

Haven't seen much word of this. Although I sometimes feel that the British media is the most censored in the world.
The EU is made up of Police states anyway, can't see the protesters keeping their heads intact for much longer.

I don't know if the EU is made up of police states or not. However, I do believe that the EU is a "forced" construct that is doomed to break apart. I might be wrong though.

[ALI3N]

Originally Posted by HippityHop

The part of the post that said there will always be a "roof over my head, food and education". From what I'm seeing on the news, Greece in particular, is having trouble providing these things to its citizens. Now if my information is incorrect, please enlighten me.

Governments get their money from people who pay taxes. If not enough people are paying taxes to support all the "free" stuff, that "free" stuff goes away. I guess the government could always print money. But then the money has no value and the country is still up the creek.

One of the biggest problems in Greece is tax evasion. There were entire islands where tourism flourished and where tax evasion ruled. If one of the "tenants" of socialism would be " Comit as much tax evasion as possible" then I would agree with the morons who ramble on and on how " socialism failed".

[ALI3N]

Originally Posted by HippityHop

I don't know if the EU is made up of police states or not. However, I do believe that the EU is a "forced" construct that is doomed to break apart. I might be wrong though.

That's what you would like to happen , don't you? Come on, admit it!

[HippityHop]

Originally Posted by ALI3N

That's what you would like to happen , don't you? Come on, admit it!

Why would it matter to me? I don't give a fat rat's ass since I don't live there.

But the EU is as artificial as many of the countries that were created up by the Allies after the World Wars.

[Asherahpova]

The EU will separate. Or at least a lot of countries will leave it. I'm not saying it will completely collapse though. Most British want to leave it so if there's a referendum we likely will.

[ALI3N]

Originally Posted by HippityHop

Why would it matter to me? I don't give a fat rat's ass since I don't live there.

Well I heard a lot of Americans that have something against an European superstate.

Originally Posted by HippityHop

But the EU is as artificial as many of the countries that were created up by the Allies after the World Wars.

One has nothing to do with the other.

[Gawain]

Originally Posted by ALI3N

Well I heard a lot of Americans that have something against an European superstate.

I guess it's normal for a superpower to fear other possible superpowers.

The European Union is the largest economy in the world, after all.

[pierce85]

I believe that the European expatriates (aka the Americans) should show a little bit more respect about their mother land (aka Europe)

[azdaja]

Originally Posted by HippityHop

The part of the post that said there will always be a "roof over my head, food and education". From what I'm seeing on the news, Greece in particular, is having trouble providing these things to its citizens. Now if my information is incorrect, please enlighten me.

Governments get their money from people who pay taxes. If not enough people are paying taxes to support all the "free" stuff, that "free" stuff goes away. I guess the government could always print money. But then the money has no value and the country is still up the creek.

people in europe don't get much for free. what we do have is a safety net, meaning that if someone fails to earn enough, loses a job, has an accident which disables them for life and such they will still get support from the state and that their children will be able to get enough education to have an equal chance to succeed as most others (the rich will always be in a better position, though). that is definitely not under threat anywhere in europe and i don't see how it could be. people in greece and other countries are up in arms for losing far less than that.

[HippityHop]

Originally Posted by azdaja

people in europe don't get much for free. what we do have is a safety net, meaning that if someone fails to earn enough, loses a job, has an accident which disables them for life and such they will still get support from the state and that their children will be able to get enough education to have an equal chance to succeed as most others (the rich will always be in a better position, though). that is definitely not under threat anywhere in europe and i don't see how it could be. people in greece and other countries are up in arms for losing far less than that.

Which is why I put "free" in quotation marks. Nothing that man creates is "free". As for being up in arms that reinforces my point. Rioting and protesting doesn't create money where there is none. And it takes money to provide a safety net. They need to figure out how to get their economies going so that they generate the necessary funds to provide the things that people want.

Otherwise they'll have to print money and that leads to a worthless currency that nobody trusts or wants thereby making the problems even worse.

[azdaja]

Originally Posted by HippityHop

Which is why I put "free" in quotation marks. Nothing that man creates is "free". As for being up in arms that reinforces my point. Rioting and protesting doesn't create money where there is none. And it takes money to provide a safety net. They need to figure out how to get their economies going so that they generate the necessary funds to provide the things that people want.

Otherwise they'll have to print money and that leads to a worthless currency that nobody trusts or wants thereby making the problems even worse.

oh, but there is enough money. just the other day i read about the widening gap between top and bottom earners here in austria. given that those in need are a small fraction of the population taking a little money from top earners shouldn't be a problem. it's not really that different in greece or spain. it's just that people refuse to accept that those who don't earn much money should carry the burden of the crisis most.

[HippityHop]

Originally Posted by jameshazza

The EU will separate. Or at least a lot of countries will leave it. I'm not saying it will completely collapse though. Most British want to leave it so if there's a referendum we likely will.

As Europe plots closer ties, Britain mulls split

By DON MELVIN and DAVID STRINGER, AP


BRUSSELS — Goodbye Britain?
For the European Union, a once-unthinkable question is looking more like a real possibility with each new grinding week of economic crisis. The reason is that bad times are forcing the 17 EU nations that use the euro currency to move ever closer toward some kind of United States of Europe — one that could make decisions about how much member countries spend and how much tax they collect.
If ever Britain had a nightmare, that's it.

The British public shows no interest in moving closer to the rest of Europe, and most can't even seem to stomach the status quo. The real question these days appears to be whether to drift away or break away abruptly.

After a 2015 election, Britain — among 10 of the 27 EU nations that don't use the euro — is likely to hold a referendum on whether to leave the EU. Even if it doesn't hold a vote, the country is already unpicking its ties with Europe, a movement that has unsettled Germany, which is eager to retain the U.K. as an important economic driver of the bloc.

"I will ask the inhabitants of the wonderful island to reflect that they will not be happy if they are alone in this world," German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in a speech before visiting British Prime Minister David Cameron last week in London.

Her outreach, however, has little impact across the Channel. British Foreign Secretary William Hague, who once toured the U.K. on a "Save The Pound" campaign that opposed the euro, believes the British public has never been more skeptical of European unity.
"Public disillusionment with the EU in Britain is the deepest it has ever been," he said last month. "People feel that in too many ways the EU is something that is done to them, not something over which they have a say."

Such distrust is tangled with worries over the fallout from the European debt crisis and anger at the European Court of Human Rights — castigated by British politicians for ordering Britain to give prisoners a vote in national elections, and preventing the U.K. from deporting terrorism suspects to countries with patchy human rights records. (HH: WTF? )

Even more alarming for many in Britain, Merkel called last week for turning the European Commission, which currently drafts legislation and regulates competition, into "something like a European government." The phrase alone rattles the teeth of many British politicians, who have warned for decades of the specter of a European superstate.

"Withdrawing from the EU can no longer be dismissed as unthinkable. It is no longer a marginal view confined to mavericks, but a legitimate point that is starting to go mainstream," Douglas Carswell, a legislator with Cameron's Conservative Party, told Parliament as it debated the idea of leaving the EU.

Last month, Cameron faced a huge rebellion within his own party as 81 of the 303 Conservative lawmakers defied his orders and voted to hold an urgent referendum on EU membership in 2015.

Read the rest here:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/...dbye.Britain_/

I didn't realize that the EU was all up in everybody's business like that.

I guess you have to give up something to get something.

[PhilePhile]

Originally Posted by HippityHop

As Europe plots closer ties, Britain mulls split

By DON MELVIN and DAVID STRINGER, AP


BRUSSELS — Goodbye Britain?
For the European Union....

"Withdrawing from the EU can no longer be dismissed as unthinkable. It is no longer a marginal view confined to mavericks, but a legitimate point that is starting to go mainstream," Douglas Carswell, a legislator with Cameron's Conservative Party, told Parliament as it debated the idea of leaving the EU.

Last month, Cameron faced a huge rebellion within his own party as 81 of the 303 Conservative lawmakers defied his orders and voted to hold an urgent referendum on EU membership in 2015.

Read the rest here:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/...dbye.Britain_/

I didn't realize that the EU was all up in everybody's business like that.

I guess you have to give up something to get something.

There will be an EU with or without the U.K.. How big or small of an EU depends on how persuasive the British (and some others ) are.

The only major country in the world that supports a successful EU is China.

[Asherahpova]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the politicians want to leave it to have an easier time doing all those dirty deeds but let's not pretend they aren't happening anyway. The general public's want to leave is based purely on economic factors.