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View Poll Results: Venus or Maria?

Venus Williams 150 82.42%
Maria Sharapova 32 17.58%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #166
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

It is well known Sjogrens Venus was not that good a player on slower surfaces (who ever would be on those long rallying type of courts with a condition like that and advancing to or in their 30s, and alot of injuries accumulated over many years, on top of that), so it doesnt make sense to reference her results on slow courts in 2008 when talking about peak. Nobody would dispute peak or even current Sharapova >>>>>>>>> Sjogrens Venus on all slower courts. The question of this thread is how they would compare peak to peak.

I dont talk about current Sharapova as peak Sharapova (despite that she actually matches her year end high year end rankings the last 2 years) and say Kvitova is obviously way better than peak Sharapova on grass (yet), or say that peak Lisicki is equal to peak Sharapova on grass (which based only on current play she would be looking at their encounters), or that Azarenka is better than peak Sharapova on hard courts based on current results. I wouldnt be so stupid to say any of that despite that Sharapova, while clearly not peak outside of clay IMHO, is still about 5 times closer to her peak on any surface than late 2000s Venus was on any non grass surface, despite that at the U.S Open and WTA Championships she was still one of the best at that point even nowhere near peak.

Last edited by forehand27 : Nov 18th, 2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #167
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Napnus Price only had 1 more slam than Pova at 25. Let's not act like they shouldn't be compared.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #168
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Obviously, the 2005 season as a whole isn't Venus's best season. Her performance at Wimbledon that year was one of her best. There was a discussion about this a few months ago and quite a few people thought Venus's performances on grass between 2005-08 were better than when her career as a whole was peaking (though I'm sure those people would deny it now, because it doesn't suit Venus in this particular argument to say it ).
Actually I didn't see that discussion about Venus at Wimbledon, I would say she had moments of great performances in particular matches during those years (Which is more so due to the tennis world counting her out during those years) but I don't think they were here best years peaking at Wimbledon.

2005 Venus actually was not playing great tennis. She didn't start playing well until she met Craybas after Craybas put out Serena!

2007 was actually even worse. She was two points away from losing in the first round and was Down 3-5 30all to Morigami in the 3rd round.

2008 to be honest was not that great from Venus she really just had an easy draw to be totally honest but she did turn it up when she got to Dementieva and Serena!

2009 was porbably the most dominate all the way through except unlike the other years she wasn't clutch in the big match against Serena!





Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanders06 View Post
Yes, ONLY the Australian Open, by far the most important slow hardcourt tournament there is.
thats the whole point! Just because Maria did better in Australia than Venus doesn't mean she will do better than Venus if they met on a slow hardcourt.

They have only had 2 matches on slow hardcourts both in Miami. Sharapova beat Venus in a competetive straigh set match in 2005 (way closer to Peak Pova than Peak Venus) and also a 3 set ugly slugfest in 2007 in Venus' 2nd tournament back from her wrist injury in like her 9th match since Wimbledon 2006. (actually less match play than Sharapova had in their 2009 Stanford meeting which every Sharapova fan always has a disclaimer on)

Then too be honest everything is about match ups period! Different players match up better with other players than they do others. I believe Venus matches up better with Sharapova than she does Davenport. Even Davenport in that 2005 Wimbledon did way more than Sharapova could do with Venus (even with her less movement) because they match up different.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #169
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExXotikal View Post
Napnus Price only had 1 more slam than Pova at 25. Let's not act like they shouldn't be compared.
If you wanna go there....

Sharapova just won her 4th Slam at age 25

Venus had 4 slams and a gold medal at age 21

and if you really wanna go there....

Sharapova won 4 slams in 8 years

Venus won 4 slams and an Olympic Gold medal in 15 months

Sharapova has only made it to more than 1 Grand Slam finals in a span of a year twice. '06 Us open-'07 Aussie '12 Aussie-'12 French

Venus was in 9 out of 13 Grand Slam Finals from 2000 Wimbledon-2003 Wimbledon.

When will Sharapova ever be that consistent of a Grand Slam contender?

Last edited by TPlaya8 : Nov 18th, 2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #170
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by TPlaya8 View Post
If you wanna go there....

Sharapova just won her 4th Slam at age 25

Venus had 4 slams and a gold medal at age 21
Maria won her 3rd slam at 20, Fuglynus won her first at 20.

Your point?
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #171
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPlaya8 View Post
If you wanna go there....

Sharapova just won her 4th Slam at age 25

Venus had 4 slams and a gold medal at age 21

and if you really wanna go there....

Sharapova won 4 slams in 8 years

Venus won 4 slams and an Olympic Gold medal in 15 months

Sharapova has only made it to more than 1 Grand Slam finals in a span of a year twice. '06 Us open-'07 Aussie '12 Aussie-'12 French

Venus was in 9 out of 13 Grand Slam Finals from 2000 Wimbledon-2003 Wimbledon.

When will Sharapova ever be that consistent of a Grand Slam contender?
Sharapova is one of the top3 favourite at every slam she enters, at least. SugaMamanus was not a contender at every slam before and after she won her 5th slam.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #172
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExXotikal View Post
Maria won her 3rd slam at 20, Fuglynus won her first at 20.

Your point?
Sharapova won 4 slams in 8 years

Venus won 4 slams and an Olympic Gold medal in 15 months

This is my point! And your ignorance level is shown just by the fact of you refering to Venus as "Fuglynus". At least have enough courtesy, respect, and dignity to refer to someone as their birth given name instead of a childish insult!
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #173
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Sharapova was not a top 3 contender at every slam she entered in her true prime in 2004-2008. In fact most of them she wasnt:

2004 Australian Open- not even close
2004 French- not even close
2004 Wimbledon- Davenport, Venus, Serena, Mauresmo, Capriati, all more favored
2004 U.S Open- Davenport, Serena, Henin, Mauresmo, all more favored
2005 Australian- Maybe a top 3 favorite
2005 French- not even close
2005 Wimbledon- A top 3 favorite for sure
2005 U.S Open- Clijsters, Venus, Henin, Davenport were all more favored
2006 Australian- Henin, Mauresmo, Clijsters were top 3 favorites
2006 French- never was a top 3 favorite on clay until recently
2006 Wimbledon- Henin, Venus, and Mauresmo were top 3 favorites
2006 U.S Open- A top 3 favorite
2007 Australian Open- A top 3 favorite
2007 French- read above French Opens
2007 Wimbledon- Henin, Serena, and Venus were top 3 favorites
2007 U.S Open- same as above
2008 Australian Open- Maybe 3rd favorite behind Serena and Henin
2008 French- read above French Opens
2008 Wimbledon- Maybe 3rd favorite behind Serena and Venus

So of 19 slams played we have at most 6 she was a top 3 favorite to win. It is only in the royal mug era she has become a top 3 favorite to win virtually any slam she plays.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #174
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPlaya8 View Post
Actually I didn't see that discussion about Venus at Wimbledon, I would say she had moments of great performances in particular matches during those years (Which is more so due to the tennis world counting her out during those years) but I don't think they were here best years peaking at Wimbledon.

2005 Venus actually was not playing great tennis. She didn't start playing well until she met Craybas after Craybas put out Serena!

2007 was actually even worse. She was two points away from losing in the first round and was Down 3-5 30all to Morigami in the 3rd round.

2008 to be honest was not that great from Venus she really just had an easy draw to be totally honest but she did turn it up when she got to Dementieva and Serena!

2009 was porbably the most dominate all the way through except unlike the other years she wasn't clutch in the big match against Serena!
You have to remember here that, when Venus was at her 2000-03 peak, most people would've said super-quick hardcourts were her best surface, NOT grass. She really wasn't that dominant atall at Wimbledon in 2000-01 -- in 2000 she barely scraped past Hingis on Hingis's worst surface, and in 2001 she dropped a set to pubescent Henin.

In 2005, 2007 (bar her first 3 shitty rounds) and 2008, she was less error-prone at Wimbledon than she was in her peak years, mainly because she was better at adjusting for the bounce and crouching down lower.




Quote:
Then too be honest everything is about match ups period! Different players match up better with other players than they do others. I believe Venus matches up better with Sharapova than she does Davenport. Even Davenport in that 2005 Wimbledon did way more than Sharapova could do with Venus (even with her less movement) because they match up different.
You guys keep flip-flopping One minute it's about achievements (even though Maria is more accomplished than Venus on the surfaces where I'm saying Peak Maria would beat her), the next minute it's about the match-up and Venus apparently owning slow ballbashers (even though Maria's equivalent in Davenport managed to compete with Peak Venus on quick surfaces, and no evidence whatsoever on slow surfaces). Make up your minds. Eitherway you don't have a strong argument
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #175
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExXotikal View Post
Sharapova is one of the top3 favourite at every slam she enters, at least. SugaMamanus was not a contender at every slam before and after she won her 5th slam.
In this piss poor era being a top 3 favorite is not a huge accomplishment. And is she really a top 3 favorite at Wimbledon btw? As of this year I'd rank Serena, Vika and Petra as the top 3, with Maria being right ahead of Grandma Sjogrenus.

+ Venus often WAS a favorite at every slam in the early 2000s, it's only hindsight that tells us she would be such a failure(for her standards) at AO/RG. From 2001-2002 she was most DEFINITELY a top 3 favorite at every single slam, anyone who says otherwise didn't watch tennis then or is a delusional Mashabator. Which one are you sis?
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #176
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

If they're both at their best, they're basically the same player, except Venus is faster, can return serve from closer to the baseline, volleys MUCH better, and can hit offensive shots from defensive positions.

Sharapova has a better second serve, but peak vs peak, there won't BE many second serves.

The difference is footspeed tells the tale. Venus will just run down and return more stuff.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #177
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
Sharapova was not a top 3 contender at every slam she entered in her true prime in 2004-2008. In fact most of them she wasnt:

2004 Australian Open- not even close
2004 French- not even close
2004 Wimbledon- Davenport, Venus, Serena, Mauresmo, Capriati, all more favored
2004 U.S Open- Davenport, Serena, Henin, Mauresmo, all more favored
2005 Australian- Maybe a top 3 favorite
2005 French- not even close
2005 Wimbledon- A top 3 favorite for sure
2005 U.S Open- Clijsters, Venus, Henin, Davenport were all more favored
2006 Australian- Henin, Mauresmo, Clijsters were top 3 favorites
2006 French- never was a top 3 favorite on clay until recently
2006 Wimbledon- Henin, Venus, and Mauresmo were top 3 favorites
2006 U.S Open- A top 3 favorite
2007 Australian Open- A top 3 favorite
2007 French- read above French Opens
2007 Wimbledon- Henin, Serena, and Venus were top 3 favorites
2007 U.S Open- same as above
2008 Australian Open- Maybe 3rd favorite behind Serena and Henin
2008 French- read above French Opens
2008 Wimbledon- Maybe 3rd favorite behind Serena and Venus

So of 19 slams played we have at most 6 she was a top 3 favorite to win. It is only in the royal mug era she has become a top 3 favorite to win virtually any slam she plays.
Im talking about since 2012 AO onwards. Sit.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #178
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Williamsova View Post
In this piss poor era being a top 3 favorite is not a huge accomplishment. And is she really a top 3 favorite at Wimbledon btw? As of this year I'd rank Serena, Vika and Petra as the top 3, with Maria being right ahead of Grandma Sjogrenus.

+ Venus often WAS a favorite at every slam in the early 2000s, it's only hindsight that tells us she would be such a failure(for her standards) at AO/RG. From 2001-2002 she was most DEFINITELY a top 3 favorite at every single slam, anyone who says otherwise didn't watch tennis then or is a delusional Mashabator. Which one are you sis?
I said before her 5th slam which refers to the couple of slams played before in which she was flopping. Read carefully Sis. I mean, she was ranked low as fuck when she won this shit.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #179
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExXotikal View Post
Im talking about since 2012 AO onwards. Sit.
So 25 year old Maria is better today than 32 year old Venus. Congratulations. You want a cookie for that.
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Old Nov 18th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #180
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Re: Peak Venus VS Peak Maria

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Originally Posted by forehand27 View Post
So 25 year old Maria is better today than 32 year old Venus. Congratulations. You want a cookie for that.
This is so not my point.
You struggle to grasp the nuances of my arguments. I aint mad at you, watching Flopnus play can do that to a humain being.
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