[BuTtErFrEnA]

Originally Posted by Cajka

I'd say that Maria wins ugly more often than Serena. Serena really gets frustrated after bad misses, while Maria looks like she doesn't care, she can make few double faults in a row, but she won't even show any sign of frustration. But when it comes to mentality in big matches, that's not even a contest, Maria's record in finals since 2009 has been very unimpressive, while Serena lost like 4 or 5 finals since 2005 or so. So, I'd pick Serena over Maria in mentality department with no doubt.

if serena always let bad misses get to her she'd never win 15 slams she's won playing like utter crap and lost playing like utter crap...all top players get there because they have the ability to shove bad misses to the back burner and make that winning shot when it counts

one thing i've heard commentators and her past rivals say about her is her ability to MAKE the same shots she was missing all match long...serena vents her frustration (nothing new) more while martha seems more like "ice queen", but that outward appearance clearly doesn't show the mental strain going on inside

[NashaMasha]

Originally Posted by Cajka

I'd say that Maria wins ugly more often than Serena. Serena really gets frustrated after bad misses, while Maria looks like she doesn't care, she can make few double faults in a row, but she won't even show any sign of frustration. But when it comes to mentality in big matches, that's not even a contest, Maria's record in finals since 2009 has been very unimpressive, while Serena lost like 4 or 5 finals since 2005 or so. So, I'd pick Serena over Maria in mentality department with no doubt.

Masha reached a number of finals just with a help of the mental strength of a fighter , but with so-so game on court, especailly in the beginning of 2012 .... The problem is that in final it's not enough versus a player in top form and showing the best tennis on this tournament .... Actually she lost only one Final , which she must have won (Miami) , all the rest she lost to a better player that moment

[Cajka]

Originally Posted by BuTtErFrEnA

if serena always let bad misses get to her she'd never win 15 slams she's won playing like utter crap and lost playing like utter crap...all top players get there because they have the ability to shove bad misses to the back burner and make that winning shot when it counts

I was mostly talking about earlier rounds of the tournaments, especially during the last 2 seasons and I'd say that she's less likely to win ugly in early rounds than Maria. Her career is very long and it's silly to say that she always loses the matches when she plays bad. I'll check what I posted, if I ever wrote "always" or something similar, my brain was probably off.

Originally Posted by BuTtErFrEnA

one thing i've heard commentators and her past rivals say about her is her ability to MAKE the same shots she was missing all match long...serena vents her frustration (nothing new) more while martha seems more like "ice queen", but that outward appearance clearly doesn't show the mental strain going on inside

I haven't heard commentators saying it, because our commentators are awful, but I did notice that. I wanted to write it when someone mentioned that she doesn't try to change anything. I think it's a huge belief in her own shots. So, if some of her shots doesn't work, she won't get insecure or try to avoid it, she'll continue hitting it until it starts working. Novak does the same thing, if his bh dtl is off for a set and a half, he won't stop hitting it, it's his best shot and he's sure it's gonna start working sooner or later. That's how he makes those comebacks. It's a great attitude and it's a message for the opponent. But I wasn't talking about situations when one of her shots doesn't work, it's probably the best to say that she gets frustrated when her whole game is streaky, when she can't find her rhythm during the whole match (which doesn't happen often), while Maria wins tons of such matches. and that's the only part of her mentality) that is weaker than Maria's. As for the rest, it's not even close.

[Cajka]

Originally Posted by NashaMasha

Masha reached a number of finals just with a help of the mental strength of a fighter , but with so-so game on court, especailly in the beginning of 2012 .... The problem is that in final it's not enough versus a player in top form and showing the best tennis on this tournament .... Actually she lost only one Final , which she must have won (Miami) , all the rest she lost to a better player that moment

After 2-0 in the beginning of the match against Vika, she won only one game. Clijsters wasn't at her best, but she gave Azarenka a match, Aga won a set against Vika, none of these matches were a final. You expect that the other finalist was the best player in that side of the draw. It's not a 2nd round against lower-ranked player, from r4 until the final you don't expect such scorelines. And Maria lost too many finals with horrible scorelines, if that has nothing to do with mentality, then IDK.

[bandabou]

Originally Posted by BuTtErFrEnA

if serena always let bad misses get to her she'd never win 15 slams she's won playing like utter crap and lost playing like utter crap...all top players get there because they have the ability to shove bad misses to the back burner and make that winning shot when it counts

one thing i've heard commentators and her past rivals say about her is her ability to MAKE the same shots she was missing all match long...serena vents her frustration (nothing new) more while martha seems more like "ice queen", but that outward appearance clearly doesn't show the mental strain going on inside

Exactly...Serena can be missing forehands ALL match, but when it's crunch time..she just buckle downs.
Clearly illustrated in this year's u.s. open final.

[BuTtErFrEnA]

Originally Posted by Cajka

I was mostly talking about earlier rounds of the tournaments, especially during the last 2 seasons and I'd say that she's less likely to win ugly in early rounds than Maria. Her career is very long and it's silly to say that she always loses the matches when she plays bad. I'll check what I posted, if I ever wrote "always" or something similar, my brain was probably off.



I haven't heard commentators saying it, because our commentators are awful, but I did notice that. I wanted to write it when someone mentioned that she doesn't try to change anything. I think it's a huge belief in her own shots. So, if some of her shots doesn't work, she won't get insecure or try to avoid it, she'll continue hitting it until it starts working. Novak does the same thing, if his bh dtl is off for a set and a half, he won't stop hitting it, it's his best shot and he's sure it's gonna start working sooner or later. That's how he makes those comebacks. It's a great attitude and it's a message for the opponent. But I wasn't talking about situations when one of her shots doesn't work, it's probably the best to say that she gets frustrated when her whole game is streaky, when she can't find her rhythm during the whole match (which doesn't happen often), while Maria wins tons of such matches. and that's the only part of her mentality) that is weaker than Maria's. As for the rest, it's not even close.

I see what you're saying

[MrProdigy555]

Wimbledon 2010...Serena had no ground game. lol.

Wimbledon 2012...Serena was winning ugly from the very beginning.

[NashaP]

Originally Posted by MrProdigy555

Wimbledon 2010...Serena had no ground game. lol.

Wimbledon 2012...Serena was winning ugly from the very beginning.

servebot

[DevilishAttitude]

Originally Posted by bandabou

So when Serena rains her game in and snatches victory from defeat...her opponent choked, rather than Serena's superior mental strength coming through..yet when Masha wins matches she had no business winning, it's all because her mental strength?!

Ah these Mashatards, they're cute.

I'm not a Sharapova fan and I never made any of those statements actually.

[bandabou]

Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude

I'm not a Sharapova fan and I never made any of those statements actually.

Not with the words, but..

[Lachy]

Originally Posted by bandabou

Not with the words, but..

Still didn't stop you from labeling someone instantly a Mashatard if they speak against the supposed divine goddess Sarin herself. Fear not, rest now young bandabou...for you'll have your free roam in Siberian Siren later no doubt.

[bandabou]

Originally Posted by Lachy

Still didn't stop you from labeling someone instantly a Mashatard if they speak against the supposed divine goddess Sarin herself. Fear not, rest now young bandabou...for you'll have your free roam in Siberian Siren later no doubt.

I didn't call THAT poster a Mashatard..but some Mashatards DID say that Maria's tougher mentally than Serena, no?!

[Lachy]

Originally Posted by bandabou

I didn't call THAT poster a Mashatard..but some Mashatards DID say that Maria's tougher mentally than Serena, no?!

So what? Who says that their opinion would be wrong? YOU? Who? Does it matter?

[DevilishAttitude]

Maria has to be mentally tough, because when her game is off, she really doesn't have anywhere to go. Her serve is too inconsistent, her defense isn't great, she doesn't have any real feel to be effective at net and her footwork is too flaky for her to protect herself when she's making too many errors. Maria's game is all or nothing, and when it's nothing her game is very one-dimensional and rigid.

But, she can keep herself calm, she takes it one point at a time, she wills herself to play better and has enough patience in her game that she believes it will come good before it's too late. Her losses this year have either come against players who were better on the day (like a Lisicki at Wimbledon for example) or players who are better overall than her, such as Serena.

Serena doesn't need to be as mentally tough in this sense, because she's a better player overall and she can be protected by her serve and good movement if her game is off. Her problem is when she gets rattled. When that happens, she does go into meltdown, such as at the French Open, or in the US Open in 2011. I think as well, being past 30 now and after everything she's been through, she also understands just how big slam finals and matches are. She knows she could break records, and she puts a lot of pressure on herself because she knows time is running out. An example of that was the second set of the US Open final, when she went to playing well, to playing poorly, in a matter of points, for no apparent reason. I believe the reasons for this was she knew she was in a position to beat those demons from the previous two US Open's and because she realised "oh my god, I could win grand slam #15", and began to feel the pressure of it.

But she only gets rattled on very rare occasions, and that's because she's in control of at least 95% of her matches, due to her strengths being so overwhelming. And even if she does gets rattled like example in the second set of the Wimbledon final, she can get herself back together if you give her enough time to do so.

[bandabou]

Originally Posted by Lachy

So what? Who says that their opinion would be wrong? YOU? Who? Does it matter?

In the end, it doesn't matter..so you're right.