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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #46
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude View Post
You don't agree with me that her serve is the best in tennis and that her defense is as good as her offense, which makes her almost unplayable?

I don't agree with the view that Serena is more 'complete'. Look at the US final, when her game went off she didn't try anything different. She just kept hitting hard and hoping it would go in. It was due to Azarenka getting tight that she scraped through rather than her changing her game and adapting to the situation.
Of course Serena changed her game..she went from making too many error to actually pick the right spots to attack and then this got to Vika..but this is what Serena does.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 06:16 AM   #47
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Of course Serena changed her game..she went from making too many error to actually pick the right spots to attack and then this got to Vika..but this is what Serena does.
This. She has this amazing ability to stop missing when it matters most.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 11:21 AM   #48
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by End da Game View Post
maria's mental toughness is overrated, its no better than serena's or azerenka's
Not overrated at all. The amount of times Sharapova has badly (as in REALLY, REALLY BAD) this year AND still won is simply ridiculous. She REFUSES to lose.

Her only kryptonite is Azarenka and Serena because both of them respond faster than her and play "first strike" and "1-2 punch" tennis better than her. IMO, Sharapova takes too much time to recover from her moves, particularly her serve.

When Azarenka plays bad, you don't see her fighting through like Maria or Serena. She's definitely mentally weaker than Maria, it's just that she's been a lot more consistent this year. Only Serena is mentally tougher than Maria.

When it comes to sheer firepower, it's still:
1) Serena
2) Maria
...
3) Victoria

Unfortunately when it comes to reaction time:
1) Victoria
2) Serena
...
3) Maria

Too bad for Maria she doesn't have her old serve. Azarenka wouldn't have become THIS much of a problem. Azarenka's superb return allows her to play always play "first strike" tennis on Maria's service and this has a negative impact on her entire game. I'm a lot more confident in Maria's return game than her service since 2009. However, her confidence stems from her serve.

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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 03:41 PM   #49
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

Azarenka DOES fight through. I don't know what you people are talking about. Vika guts out wins.

The only thing is, Vika's quality of play doesn't range as high or as low as Serena's/Sharapova's. Her level of play is much more consistent throughout matches. That's a positive when she's playing most of the other women, but not necessarily a positive when playing Serena (or Sharapova) because they can both raise their level, imo.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 04:38 PM   #50
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by MrProdigy555 View Post
Azarenka DOES fight through. I don't know what you people are talking about. Vika guts out wins.

The only thing is, Vika's quality of play doesn't range as high or as low as Serena's/Sharapova's. Her level of play is much more consistent throughout matches. That's a positive when she's playing most of the other women, but not necessarily a positive when playing Serena (or Sharapova) because they can both raise their level, imo.
Agreed I'd add Kvitova on the list and I feel like those players are well aware of that.
In all matches Vika and Maria played each other, Vika always had similar stats overall, it's quite consistent but her tennis isn't explosive. Like you said never too low never too high.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #51
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by MrProdigy555 View Post
Azarenka DOES fight through. I don't know what you people are talking about. Vika guts out wins.

The only thing is, Vika's quality of play doesn't range as high or as low as Serena's/Sharapova's. Her level of play is much more consistent throughout matches. That's a positive when she's playing most of the other women, but not necessarily a positive when playing Serena (or Sharapova) because they can both raise their level, imo.
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Agreed I'd add Kvitova on the list and I feel like those players are well aware of that.
In all matches Vika and Maria played each other, Vika always had similar stats overall, it's quite consistent but her tennis isn't explosive. Like you said never too low never too high.

You've absolutely hit the nail on the head when it comes to Vika against anyone with a "bigger game" really.

I'd call her an offensive player rather than a power player. She certainly has game, but it's so controlled and consistent that she's never really had to sustain a game plan of blowing someone off a court in the way a Rena/Maria/Petra has. Meaning that her standard game is 9 times out of 10 too much for everyone else, but when she encounters one of the other girls i mentioned when they're "on" then she hasn't had the practice to go for lights out tennis and she always comes off second best.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #52
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by MrProdigy555 View Post
Azarenka DOES fight through. I don't know what you people are talking about. Vika guts out wins.

The only thing is, Vika's quality of play doesn't range as high or as low as Serena's/Sharapova's. Her level of play is much more consistent throughout matches. That's a positive when she's playing most of the other women, but not necessarily a positive when playing Serena (or Sharapova) because they can both raise their level, imo.
MrProdigy, this is a great analysis.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #53
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by MrProdigy555 View Post
So, Azarenka GAVE Serena the US Open title? You are something else. Serena took that title.


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Originally Posted by RVD View Post
Naw, I agree with those. It's just that the list wasn't quite complete/accurate.
For example Serena's return game vs Azarenka's.

Are you saying that Serena has only an 'A' game?

Actually Serena has employed different plans throughout here career. She may get lazy, as all athletes infrequently do, but she definitely has more than a single plan.
Plus, she has several gears at her disposal.

Personally, Serena didn't play that USO final any differently than she would against any other great returner. Kim and Capriati both immediately come to mind. And the waiting game she displayed out there during a good portion of the match is typical of her. Serena often waits for that one opening on which to capitalize. Next thing you know, she broken her opponent and not looking back.

Serena knows when to turn it up or when to try something different. Her fans are often awarded with heart attacks during these periods, but she does come through for the win more often than not. Plus, she was in amazing form entering the USO, and very healthy.
Still, the fact is, she won the USO, and it wasn't Azarenka who gave her the match.
That can't be what you're implying, is it?
I didn't mention Serena's return. Serena's certainly a more spectacular returner than Azarenka when she's on form, and will hit some stunning winners. But she's not as consistent with them as Azarenka and will throw away whole return games away due to poor returning.

No, I think people are not getting my point. When Serena is playing her best, the rest might as well go home, they ain't gonna get near her. If she's playing well, it's the same. Serena's strengths are above everyone's else when she's on song.

But is she always on song? No. Is she invincible? No. She reined her game in at the end of that match against Azarenka. She read the situation right, but you can't tell me that Azarenka didn't falter right at the end? Serena used her experience in big matches at the end.

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Originally Posted by SymphonyX View Post
Not overrated at all. The amount of times Sharapova has badly (as in REALLY, REALLY BAD) this year AND still won is simply ridiculous. She REFUSES to lose.

Her only kryptonite is Azarenka and Serena because both of them respond faster than her and play "first strike" and "1-2 punch" tennis better than her. IMO, Sharapova takes too much time to recover from her moves, particularly her serve.

When Azarenka plays bad, you don't see her fighting through like Maria or Serena. She's definitely mentally weaker than Maria, it's just that she's been a lot more consistent this year. Only Serena is mentally tougher than Maria.

When it comes to sheer firepower, it's still:
1) Serena
2) Maria
...
3) Victoria

Unfortunately when it comes to reaction time:
1) Victoria
2) Serena
...
3) Maria

Too bad for Maria she doesn't have her old serve. Azarenka wouldn't have become THIS much of a problem. Azarenka's superb return allows her to play always play "first strike" tennis on Maria's service and this has a negative impact on her entire game. I'm a lot more confident in Maria's return game than her service since 2009. However, her confidence stems from her serve.
That's exactly what I've been saying in this thread about Maria's mental strength and that it's flaws in her actual game are the problem, nothing to do with her mind.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #54
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by Purple Raccoon View Post
Strengths:

Maria- Shrieking and OCD
Aza- Bitchiness and cooing
Aga- Pushing and frowning
Li Na- Insulting her husband
Kvitova- Hitting 20 errors in one point
Serena- butt size
Stosur- choking
Errani- Wa-heee!
Kerber- anger


(Also, I've read people saying that Vika is better at returning a strong serve, while Serena is the best at punishing a weak serve. Thoughts?)
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #55
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude View Post




I didn't mention Serena's return. Serena's certainly a more spectacular returner than Azarenka when she's on form, and will hit some stunning winners. But she's not as consistent with them as Azarenka and will throw away whole return games away due to poor returning.
I don't think that it's a matter of her return game breaking down, insomuch as she routinely goes on a mental walk-a-bout when her opponent isn't playing at as high a level as she is.
We've seen this from Serena so many times, and it's frustrating to watch as a fan.
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No, I think people are not getting my point. When Serena is playing her best, the rest might as well go home, they ain't gonna get near her. If she's playing well, it's the same. Serena's strengths are above everyone's else when she's on song.
I get your point now that you've embellished on it. However, you didn't mention these earlier.
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But is she always on song? No. Is she invincible? No. She reined her game in at the end of that match against Azarenka. She read the situation right, but you can't tell me that Azarenka didn't falter right at the end? Serena used her experience in big matches at the end.
Did Azarenka's level drop near the end?
Yes.
But Serena lives for those moments.
Also, Serena has this uncanny way of sticking with an opponent who is peaking and in the zone, and then pouncing once they expose an opening.
The only recent match in memory that Serena failed to truly stage a comeback in was at the 2012 FO.
However, if you can link me to several matches where she demonstrated a pattern return inconsistency, then I'd be completely willing to concede your point.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #56
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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That's exactly what I've been saying in this thread about Maria's mental strength and that it's flaws in her actual game are the problem, nothing to do with her mind.
flaws in your game can and do affect your mental game especially against people who have strengths that void yours/exploit your own weaknesses...

otoh you can have the world of confidence against someone you know can't exploit your weaknesses/your strengths neutralise theirs

so yes it does have something to do with her mind - it's why sometimes no matter how either is playing, martha loses 9 times out of 10 to serena:

the serve, which pulls her through against other players, is being smack across the court for clean winners or being put deep and places her on the defence - mental set back cause your mind is now in defence mode (exploiting weakness)

the return she can use to easily break others, is rendered basically useless because she's not able to anticipate them well enough (strength of serena's serve voiding strength of martha's return - mental set back which now puts return AND service games out of her hands)

power game which can probably overpower 95% of the tour is equally matched by great defence (mental set back - having to hit a whole series of great shots to win points affects almost everyone mentally especially when you're not accustomed to having to do it against the same 95% of the tour - exploits the consistency, or lack there of)
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #57
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by DevilishAttitude View Post




I didn't mention Serena's return. Serena's certainly a more spectacular returner than Azarenka when she's on form, and will hit some stunning winners. But she's not as consistent with them as Azarenka and will throw away whole return games away due to poor returning.

No, I think people are not getting my point. When Serena is playing her best, the rest might as well go home, they ain't gonna get near her. If she's playing well, it's the same. Serena's strengths are above everyone's else when she's on song.

But is she always on song? No. Is she invincible? No. She reined her game in at the end of that match against Azarenka. She read the situation right, but you can't tell me that Azarenka didn't falter right at the end? Serena used her experience in big matches at the end.



That's exactly what I've been saying in this thread about Maria's mental strength and that it's flaws in her actual game are the problem, nothing to do with her mind.
So when Serena rains her game in and snatches victory from defeat...her opponent choked, rather than Serena's superior mental strength coming through..yet when Masha wins matches she had no business winning, it's all because her mental strength?!

Ah these Mashatards, they're cute.
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Old Nov 16th, 2012, 12:26 AM   #58
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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So when Serena rains her game in and snatches victory from defeat...her opponent choked, rather than Serena's superior mental strength coming through..yet when Masha wins matches she had no business winning, it's all because her mental strength?!

Ah these Mashatards, they're cute.
you know how it is
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Old Nov 16th, 2012, 12:45 AM   #59
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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Originally Posted by bandabou View Post
So when Serena rains her game in and snatches victory from defeat...her opponent choked, rather than Serena's superior mental strength coming through..yet when Masha wins matches she had no business winning, it's all because her mental strength?!
I'd say that Maria wins ugly more often than Serena. Serena really gets frustrated after bad misses, while Maria looks like she doesn't care, she can make few double faults in a row, but she won't even show any sign of frustration. But when it comes to mentality in big matches, that's not even a contest, Maria's record in finals since 2009 has been very unimpressive, while Serena lost like 4 or 5 finals since 2005 or so. So, I'd pick Serena over Maria in mentality department with no doubt.
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Old Nov 16th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #60
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Re: Strengths and Weaknesses of Top 10

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I'd say that Maria wins ugly more often than Serena. Serena really gets frustrated after bad misses, while Maria looks like she doesn't care, she can make few double faults in a row, but she won't even show any sign of frustration. But when it comes to mentality in big matches, that's not even a contest, Maria's record in finals since 2009 has been very unimpressive, while Serena lost like 4 or 5 finals since 2005 or so. So, I'd pick Serena over Maria in mentality department with no doubt.
Serena can indeed get more visibly frustrated..but her ability to RAISE to the ocation is almost un-matched.
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