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Old Nov 13th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #1546
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Off-topic, we have an extremely fun Davis Cup final on our hands.

Why:

(1) Radek made the semis in London and is now world #4 in doubles and with Tomas they have a 11-1 Davis Cup record, BUT the 6th-seeded Spaniards have just triumphed in London, basically out of nowhere !!

The doubles match can easily go to five sets and offer lots of drama given the current form and track-record of all four players.

(2) Berdych-Ferrer - world #6 vs. world #5, H2H 3-4, extremely close matchup, may decide the outcome of the final. You can't ask for more.

(3) Stepanek-Almagro - Radek leads H2H 2-1, but Almagro won their last match in August and is much younger. On the other hand, there's still a chance that a fresh Radek may pull an upset with home crowd support.

(4) The Czech team captain has an ace up his sleeve: the Spanish 'killer' Lukas Rosol, who ended Nadal's 2012 season.

(5) The atmosphere will be amazing, with Ivan Lendl, Pavel Slozil, Jan Kodes and other well-known past players in the audience. I wouldn't be suprised if Petra and a few other Czech chicks showed up as well.

We actually HAVE an off-topic thread,Petronius,where you can include whatever you'd like...but at least you talked about Petra's kinsmen,so I suppose the above wasn't so terrible in the big picture
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #1547
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
We actually HAVE an off-topic thread,Petronius,where you can include whatever you'd like...but at least you talked about Petra's kinsmen,so I suppose the above wasn't so terrible in the big picture
I think that Petra and other Czech female players will turn up for the match to support their male counterparts so my post was actually on topic
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #1548
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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In all fairness (since I've been one of the Negative Nannies), I'm sure Cernosek may have some excellent developmental people--as he runs Prostojev--at his disposal. I'm sure he does. And he may even have access to some excellent top 100-30-ish type tennis people, being involved in Czech Extraliga, Prague 100K and even Fed and Davis Cup as well. Sure! So it's not like guy doesn't have access to anyone.

However (as many have noted), he may not have any absolute highest level people at his disposal for a Grand Slam winner/serious contender, top 10 player like Petra. That IS THE PROBLEM, of course. And no matter how hard he searches IN HIS NETWORK, he probably won't find them (unless he gets lucky with Kotyza and any additional choices in 2013).

It's an entirely different level of consistency, goals, pressure, level of play, disappointment, etc., Petra's facing. Even Berdych; sure He's a top 10 player. However, he doesn't have the expectations and weight of the world on his shoulders that Petra currently does, being a non-Grand Slam winner--expected to dominate like her. This is why all these lengthy delays and crony selections, are so ass backwards, when you have a world (literally) of talent to choose from in Tennis. Plus, he's not a coach or real tennis person. So how would he know, who works best with Petra's game and style (over she, her coaches and her tennis advisors--which she unfortunately doesn't have outside of him)? He's the Czech Jerry Jones.

Nonetheless, we'll see what happens with our beloved Petra (not only with Kvitova's 2013 results, but if she gets any effective or world class coaches, specialist, advisers, fitness, medical consultation, etc., in her camp/stable)?

'He's the Czech Jerry Jones.' LOL. Line of the year!

But he's also a paranoid numbnut who doesn't realize by depriving her of what she needs to be the best, he's also sabotaging her results and thus reducing his own paydays!!! What a small minded huckster idiot.

He also probably doesn't realize by restricting her, and over controlling her so much, he's setting himself up for losing her. Eventually she will talk to another player or someone in the sport/business she respects and trusts, and she will realize how stupidly she's being handled. It's inevitable IMHO.

This year we saw at the end Petra was pretty fed up with quite a few things. I wonder if Cernosek is/was also on that list?? Hmmm...

We'll see.
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 12:05 PM   #1549
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Talking Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Off-topic, we have an extremely fun Davis Cup final on our hands.

Why:

(1) Radek made the semis in London and is now world #4 in doubles and with Tomas they have a 11-1 Davis Cup record, BUT the 6th-seeded Spaniards have just triumphed in London, basically out of nowhere !!

The doubles match can easily go to five sets and offer lots of drama given the current form and track-record of all four players.

(2) Berdych-Ferrer - world #6 vs. world #5, H2H 3-4, extremely close matchup, may decide the outcome of the final. You can't ask for more.

(3) Stepanek-Almagro - Radek leads H2H 2-1, but Almagro won their last match in August and is much younger. On the other hand, there's still a chance that a fresh Radek may pull an upset with home crowd support.

(4) The Czech team captain has an ace up his sleeve: the Spanish 'killer' Lukas Rosol, who ended Nadal's 2012 season.

(5) The atmosphere will be amazing, with Ivan Lendl, Pavel Slozil, Jan Kodes and other well-known past players in the audience. I wouldn't be suprised if Petra and a few other Czech chicks showed up as well.


Kicking myself for not buying a ticket to the final.

Time to beg from some of my corporate clients.....
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 01:21 PM   #1550
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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What a small minded huckster idiot.
Please keep it classy, guys. Thanks.

And no, I'm not affiliated to Mr. Černošek in any way, but the guy is running a leading European tennis academy and a world-class talent like Petra is the product of this academy. He has full right to look after his product and protect his investment. Of course, as times goes by, Petra will have more and more say on every detail of her career, whether on- or off-court. Be patient.

They have built the academy from scratch. Before he took over as the CEO, most of the best Czech players came from the Prague area (Navratilova, Mandlikova, Korda, Sukova). Since 1990s, the Černošek-run facility has been the undisputed leader in the country.

Once again, please don't drag the level of this subforum to the level of some GM threads.

Thanks!
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 02:32 PM   #1551
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

Should have commented on Ex's reference earlier: In reality,Jerry Jones was a starter on a national championship-winning team at the University of Arkansas.To my knowledge,he didn't have any pro playing career at all,but he DID reach the peak at the collegiate level so he has a FAR better grasp than most owners on how the sport is played.Is he meddlesome at times? OF COURSE,but he's not dabbling in ignorance,so a more fitting comparison would be DANIEL SNYDER who's used his Skins fanship as a justification for interfering in personnel matters for which he didn't have the first f--kin' clue.And,like Petra's boss,he hired servile stooges as yes-men to masquerade as General Managers for many years.Finally,he came clean,after being pressured by the NFL offices,and got a legit,full-time GM...and the team is back on the right path with RGIII as a star to lead the way.

I'm sure that Petra won't have any inkling about these names we're using IF she even reads this,but at least she'll understand the basic theme and,perhaps,speak to a veteran OR former,retired star and get some extra input on having the right management team
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #1552
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Please keep it classy, guys. Thanks.

And no, I'm not affiliated to Mr. Černošek in any way, but the guy is running a leading European tennis academy and a world-class talent like Petra is the product of this academy. He has full right to look after his product and protect his investment. Of course, as times goes by, Petra will have more and more say on every detail of her career, whether on- or off-court. Be patient.

They have built the academy from scratch. Before he took over as the CEO, most of the best Czech players came from the Prague area (Navratilova, Mandlikova, Korda, Sukova). Since 1990s, the Černošek-run facility has been the undisputed leader in the country.

Once again, please don't drag the level of this subforum to the level of some GM threads.

Thanks!
I respectfully disagree Petronius. And many of us have or been business people.

As I said to you before, Cernosek has too many hands in the Cookie Jar. Nonetheless, so be it! The real problem (as QPF mentioned) is, Petra's not getting the best management, personell and decisions made at the moment--because of it.

And Paranoia is not good. When is it ever? Are you serious?

And just because you run a developmental facility, it doesn't mean you "own" a player. Though those type of relationships have existed many times in the past, it doesn't make it any less shady when it currently happens. Managers, coaches and agents, lose talent all the time in entertainment and sports. The problem with THIS relationship is, Csernosek acts like he's the viable TALENT and Petra is the LESSER COMMODITY--when he/she's not! It should never be that way.

QPF is right! Petra could go to any Manager around the world, and nothing would change. You can even make the argument (as QPF alluded to), that living in the Czech Republic, and being under the thumb of a controlling Czech tennis facility owner, tennis event promoter, active politics and her megalomaniac manager, may be too much for her now. Ideally, you would NOT want to learn tennis, currently train, play Czech tournaments, have tennis decisions made and be managed all by the same person. That's just too much. Do you deny this?

I understand that was your Czech pride talking Petronius. And I appreciate and understand it dearly. Great country, with a great tennis tradition. Absolutely. And I know this open discussion may be tough.

Nonetheless, Cernosek can still develop tennis players in his country (though realistically he gets the best of the different age groups), with or with out Petra. By you're logic, every tennis player that's ever rolled through Nick Bollettieri's Tennis Academy, are indentured to him for life. Thank god he doesn't feel that way. I don't even think he even manages people? And if he ever has, it's obviously not a major focus. He likes to keep that separate, as he should. Good for him!

As I said, the MAIN problem is, Cernosek's got too many hands and people dipping in the Cookie Jar, including Petra's. All this, creates clear conflicts of interest, poor management and decision making, which we see clearly displayed now. If that wasn't the case, none of us would be talking about this currently--even in off season. Lets be honest here. At the moment the relationship best suits Milos Cernosek, not Petra Kvitova.

Though I know you would not agree, I have no problem with Petra leaving him, if she couldn't exercise more control over her career. And I'm sure encouraging/forcing Petra to play these tournaments (or to at least rushing her to make the decisions publically, if she would have played them anyway), is not making Petra feel any better/happier.

I Have nothing expressly against Cernosek. However, my concern and rooting interest (as 99.9% of the fans) allies with the player--so I can see more great tennis played by her. That's what fans pay to see. And if we notice decisions and conflict of interest that negatively impact that, what else are we supposed to say?

Petra owes him nothing, especially when Cernosek can't separate or suppress his myriad conflict of interest, concerning her tennis decisions.
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #1553
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Should have commented on Ex's reference earlier: In reality,Jerry Jones was a starter on a national championship-winning team at the University of Arkansas.To my knowledge,he didn't have any pro playing career at all,but he DID reach the peak at the collegiate level so he has a FAR better grasp than most owners on how the sport is played.Is he meddlesome at times? OF COURSE,but he's not dabbling in ignorance,so a more fitting comparison would be DANIEL SNYDER who's used his Skins fanship as a justification for interfering in personnel matters for which he didn't have the first f--kin' clue.And,like Petra's boss,he hired servile stooges as yes-men to masquerade as General Managers for many years.Finally,he came clean,after being pressured by the NFL offices,and got a legit,full-time GM...and the team is back on the right path with RGIII as a star to lead the way.

I'm sure that Petra won't have any inkling about these names we're using IF she even reads this,but at least she'll understand the basic theme and,perhaps,speak to a veteran OR former,retired star and get some extra input on having the right management team
Actually, I chose Jerry Jones, for exactly what you said (and other reasons).

Jerry Jones played in a national championship at Arkansas. And Cernosek is involved in tennis at multiple levels at Prostejov, Extraliga, Fed Cup, Davis Cup, Prague 100K, etc.. Yeah, they both have some experience. However, neither experience makes either one of them qualified to make current high level player, strategic and personell decisions.

Keep in mind, Jerry Jones hadn't played or coached football for decades. At least Cernosek has been involved in sports/tennis for years (unless Petronius can correct me). So Jones is almost as bad as Snyder (some may say worse, cause his College experience back in the day, may actually make him feel realistically qualified).

However, the reason why I chose him, was because both Jones and Cernosek struck gold and had major success (Jones with Jimmy Johnson and the Herschel Walker Trade Bonanza, and Cernosek with Petra, Ivanko and Kotyza 2011 windfall), and now both feel they can run their product better than the people who made the moves happen, cultivated, coached and executed the talent.

Hopefully/we all pray that Cernosek won't be like Jones--5-10 years from now, reminiscing about the good old days, praying for future Petra success after years of continued/annual disappointment, like JJ has with the Cowboys.

That was my reason. But yes, Daniel Snyder is a mess as well (and why you try to mess up my Jerry Jones joke/crack).
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #1554
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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'He's the Czech Jerry Jones.' LOL. Line of the year!

But he's also a paranoid numbnut who doesn't realize by depriving her of what she needs to be the best, he's also sabotaging her results and thus reducing his own paydays!!! What a small minded huckster idiot.

He also probably doesn't realize by restricting her, and over controlling her so much, he's setting himself up for losing her. Eventually she will talk to another player or someone in the sport/business she respects and trusts, and she will realize how stupidly she's being handled. It's inevitable IMHO.

This year we saw at the end Petra was pretty fed up with quite a few things. I wonder if Cernosek is/was also on that list?? Hmmm...

We'll see.
Thanks (on JJ LOTY).

Everything you said made perfect sense (though I'm sure Petronius didn't like the "numb nut, small minded huckster, idiot" comment).

But trust me, we all know where it comes from.
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #1555
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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I'm sure that Petra won't have any inkling about these names we're using IF she even reads this,but at least she'll understand the basic theme and,perhaps,speak to a veteran OR former,retired star and get some extra input on having the right management team
We'll see; we hope, and how soon?
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #1556
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Actually, I chose Jerry Jones, for exactly what you said (and other reasons).

Jerry Jones played in a national championship at Arkansas. And Cernosek is involved in tennis at multiple levels at Prostejov, Extraliga, Fed Cup, Davis Cup, Prague 100K, etc.. Yeah, they both have some experience. However, neither experience makes either one of them qualified to make current high level player, strategic and personell decisions.

Keep in mind, Jerry Jones hadn't played or coached football for decades. At least Cernosek has been involved in sports/tennis for years (unless Petronius can correct me). So Jones is almost as bad as Snyder (some may say worse, cause his College experience back in the day, may actually make him feel realistically qualified).

However, the reason why I chose him, was because both Jones and Cernosek struck gold and had major success (Jones with Jimmy Johnson and the Herschel Walker Trade Bonanza, and Cernosek with Petra, Ivanko and Kotyza 2011 windfall), and now both feel they can run their product better than the people who made the moves happen, cultivated, coached and executed the talent.

Hopefully/we all pray that Cernosek won't be like Jones--5-10 years from now, reminiscing about the good old days, praying for future Petra success after years of continued/annual disappointment, like JJ has with the Cowboys.

That was my reason. But yes, Daniel Snyder is a mess as well (and why you try to mess up my Jerry Jones joke/crack).
Correct me if I'm wrong,but Cermosek never played the sport at ANY kind of high level;he's simply a businessman who organized tennis leagues and such.That means that JJ has a much superior first-hand knowledge of his sport than the Czech does.While I agree that JJ undermines the idea of a healthy NFL management structure,he's not completely ignorant,either.He has plenty enough common sense that he wouldn't have his players practice seven days per week(= Petra's USO swing with zero rest),and he has selected some fine talent in his dual owner/GM role.I'm not justifying JJ's abuse of power,only saying that he's got much more common sense on how to treat his players and analyze the sport.....Petra is the Corey Dillon of the WTA;marooned for years on Bengals Island Prison,Corey finally got his freedom and won a SB with the Pats by shining as their lead RB.....I can picture Petra shining again--over the LONG term--if she just listens to sound advice from veterans or wise,retired players.
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Old Nov 14th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #1557
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Correct me if I'm wrong,but Cermosek never played the sport at ANY kind of high level;he's simply a businessman who organized tennis leagues and such.That means that JJ has a much superior first-hand knowledge of his sport than the Czech does.While I agree that JJ undermines the idea of a healthy NFL management structure,he's not completely ignorant,either.He has plenty enough common sense that he wouldn't have his players practice seven days per week(= Petra's USO swing with zero rest),and he has selected some fine talent in his dual owner/GM role.I'm not justifying JJ's abuse of power,only saying that he's got much more common sense on how to treat his players and analyze the sport.....Petra is the Corey Dillon of the WTA;marooned for years on Bengals Island Prison,Corey finally got his freedom and won a SB with the Pats by shining as their lead RB.....I can picture Petra shining again--over the LONG term--if she just listens to sound advice from veterans or wise,retired players.
Correct (as far as I know).

Like I said, I used each one as an examples, cause it appears both of them thinks their individual experience doing both (in Jones case--playing football way, way, way back), gives them current insight.

And the BUSINESSMEN part is what scares me for Petra--when a guy has his hands so often in the cookie Jar. That line Petronius used about Cersonek's investment scared me. I'm sure the man's been duly compensated. Petra owes him nothing. He doesn't own her. But it sure sounded that way.

That's the problem when tennis development, training, events, promotion, advice and management in general. They don't always go hand in hand with player needs, depending at where they are in their career. It's even worse, when it's controlled by one person, who's primary goal is to make money and be profitable in each area. When this happens/these things converge, you're going to have conflicts of interest.

So far, Cernosek hasn't shown he's above any of this.
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #1558
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

PS (to Bruce and Petronius--so he doesn't think I want to steal Petra way from Cernosek with out reason):

OK. Let's take a look at Usain Bolt's set up and situation. He's an athlete much more famous and successful than Petra, in a country much smaller than The Czech Republic. Imagine the pressure on him, Right?

I know this appears long. But check this out! It's good food for thought.

Usain's Bolt's Agent is RICKY SIMMS of Pace Sports Management. He's Irish.

The Irishman is responsible for organizing all Bolt’s appearances around the world and has been by his side at all the major meetings for eight years.

His coach is GLEN MILLS, of Racers Track Club in Jamaica for which Bolt runs-- (but Mills doesn't own). Keep in mind, Bolt was a VERY TALENTED and well known underachiever--after early success--with his previous coaches, before he found Mills, who brought out the World Championship, Olympic dedication and success.

His Manager is NORMAN PEART -- PEART is noted be the Jamaican's stars business manager and one-time mentor. He was brought in by the family to look after Bolt when he moved to Kingston at the age of 17 and supposedly deals with all his commercial contracts (though I've heard Ricky Simms talk alot about Usain's global earnings, appearance and endorsement potential in articles).

The Doctor: German HANS MULLER-WOHLFAHRT is the doctor Usain paid tribute to after his 100m win.

A familiar name in football, the medic has been the go-to man whenever Bolt has had problems with his back and hamstrings.

The Best Friend-NJ WALKER has been Usain’s best friend since primary school.

Nobody knows the man better than NJ, who is his closest confidant. Walker is a qualified teacher and rarely leaves Bolt’s side away from the track.

Ok, so that's Bolts Team tight knit team, as far as we know (from me and various publications).

Now let's even forget the fact that Bolt's Agent--Ricky Simms is not Jamaican.

Here's my argument: Ever since Bolt's Ground Shaking Olympics at Beijing in 2008, many observers in the endorsement business thought Bolt was going to leave Ricky Simms for one of the big time (IMG, etc.) Tennis Player, Golf, Basketball or Football (proper) agents. Simms mainly deals with relatively "Light weight"--in comparison track and Field/Athletics performers. However, to Usain Bolt's credit, he didn't. That's your argument Petronius. "Stay with who brought you there (though Bolt never developed under Simms as a youth)" OK. I got it.

Fast forward to 2012, and Usain is supposedly now making $20mil a year in endorsements and appearance fees with Simms. That's certainly better than before for him. And it's far more than any other "athletics" sportsmen at the moment or ever (and maybe it will go up even more the next few years). Nonetheless, they're many observers who feel, "that's still not enough". They think Bolt should be making $30-$50mil per yr with his fame, especially after this Olympics. We'll see?

Currently, many of these critics feel (and in the past), Bolt should dump the expendable Ricky Simms--as Li Na did after the French Open, and get one of those big time Agents outside of Athletics/aka Track & Field, and "Cash In".

Now here's the big difference with the Bolt and Petra situations Petronius. Ricky Simms is NOT INVOLVED in Usain's training or Preparation. Glen Mills (as he should) runs that. So one can argue, if "Bolt doesn't want to change his agent and make a 'paltry' $ 20 mil a yr, that's on him". Cause at least his Agent (or his manager for that matter), haven't affected his great, legendary performance and results on the track. They're totally separate. Can you say the same for Petra and Cernosek?

Think about it? Simms does essentially what Csernosek does. He just doesn't have the title of Manager (a close family confidante--they can trust--instead has that distinction). Neither does Simms have the added responsibility of having Bolt train at his facilities, appear in his events, represent his country or districts on a regular basis, as well as be his first line for associated personell or career direction and advise (unless Bolt wants him to). They're much less conflicts of interest (or opportunities for manipulation there). Big Difference!!

It's so clear. In both concept and results; Bolt has a better team. And imagine the inherent pressure and scrutiny HE MUST HAVE at home?

Though he still lives in Track & Field crazy/proficient Jamaica (and reps the country proudly); Bolt has a strong, successful international team, that's still Jamaican at it's heart. Why can't Petra do that?
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 04:36 AM   #1559
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
Correct (as far as I know).

Like I said, I used each one as an examples, cause it appears both of them thinks their individual experience doing both (in Jones case--playing football way, way, way back), gives them current insight.

And the BUSINESSMEN part is what scares me for Petra--when a guy has his hands so often in the cookie Jar. That line Petronius used about Cersonek's investment scared me. I'm sure the man's been duly compensated. Petra owes him nothing. He doesn't own her. But it sure sounded that way.

That's the problem when tennis development, training, events, promotion, advice and management in general. They don't always go hand in hand with player needs, depending at where they are in their career. It's even worse, when it's controlled by one person, who's primary goal is to make money and be profitable in each area. When this happens/these things converge, you're going to have conflicts of interest.

So far, Cernosek hasn't shown he's above any of this.
The only distinction that I'd like to make about JJ--even though I don't really LIKE him,per se--is that,IMHO,he has a genuine,burning passion for the sport;his team isn't just some rich boy's toy that he plays with.I only have the most superficial knowledge of Cernosek,but I'd be suspicious of ANY racehorse owner who let brothers Gomer and Goober Pyle handle his thoroughbred......Don't mean to be disrespectful of Petra in comparing her to a horse,yet that's the clearest illustration that I can think of right now.Just can't imagine how anyone who supposedly loved a sport would allow such amateurish management of a rare jewel such as Petra.....No offense intended,Ex,but MAYBE this guy uses tennis like Americans use church: They couldn't care less about God,but it's a convenient place for them to make business contacts and expand their social network
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Old Nov 15th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #1560
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Re: Petra Kvitova News and Articles

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
The only distinction that I'd like to make about JJ--even though I don't really LIKE him,per se--is that,IMHO,he has a genuine,burning passion for the sport;his team isn't just some rich boy's toy that he plays with.I only have the most superficial knowledge of Cernosek,but I'd be suspicious of ANY racehorse owner who let brothers Gomer and Goober Pyle handle his thoroughbred......Don't mean to be disrespectful of Petra in comparing her to a horse,yet that's the clearest illustration that I can think of right now.Just can't imagine how anyone who supposedly loved a sport would allow such amateurish management of a rare jewel such as Petra.....No offense intended,Ex,but MAYBE this guy uses tennis like Americans use church: They couldn't care less about God,but it's a convenient place for them to make business contacts and expand their social network
I know what you mean: One is doing it for the love of the sport, competition and/or his own Ego. And the other is doing it to make money, while treating Petra like a commodity (your horse analogy), a Chess pieces or another business asset. I got you.

Unfortunately, that businessman, seems to have an ego to (at least when speaking to the press about how he can get Petra to do stuff, and making suggestions to her).
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