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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #4381
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

She's had plenty of success with the supposedly 'passive' style compared to the current 'attacking' style. Also, to call defense passive is wrong because this style does require a great athleticism, anticipation and quick reactions. Chasing many balls down and counter the attack from the other side of the court is hardly a sign of pasivity...

Dinara did have better results at slams but not on the tour events as a whole. Besides, Safina played more of an attacking game than Caro and yet she's not won any slams. That just shows that it's not the question of style. I think any style can win any kind of tournament. It's always about how well it's executed.
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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #4382
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
She's had plenty of success with the supposedly 'passive' style compared to the current 'attacking' style. Also, to call defense passive is wrong because this style does require a great athleticism, anticipation and quick reactions. Chasing many balls down and counter the attack from the other side of the court is hardly a sign of pasivity...

Dinara did have better results at slams but not on the tour events as a whole. Besides, Safina played more of an attacking game than Caro and yet she's not won any slams. That just shows that it's not the question of style. I think any style can win any kind of tournament. It's always about how well it's executed.
Very few players win slams early in their careers, of the current generation.
Only Vika & Petra have won slams of all players under 25.
And Caroline was having a ton of success.
But its not just the change in style. If you read her last few tweets, she's having a lot of fun away from tennis, so maybe she needs a softer schedule for another year or 2, until she's ready to recommitt to being her best
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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #4383
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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I didnt know what would happen, but I know Caro was 21 last year when she was #1.
Safina was 22 the 1st time she reached a slam final. Then got to 2 more, then had back problems that drove her off the tour.

The comparison is nonsense, like just like your other bullshit
Yep,22 and 21...a HUGE age difference.For the record,even we fans in Dinara's forum had serious doubts as to whether she was mentally strong enough to win a Slam.Her level of play dropped off noticeably even before her back injury...so her back didn't stop her from winning Slams any more than an injury to Donovan would 'stop' the U.S. from winning the WC.I pointed out that Dinara had more success than Caroline to demonstrate that it was FAR from automatic that Caro was destined to break through.Marineblue is correct that Dinara was often more aggressive,but she resorted to pushing at Slams where she got nervous in the later rounds,so the style of play at those stages wasn't that different from Caroline's(though Caro was clearly better defensively).

Your belief that Caro would've won is certainly not ridiculous;what IS pathetic is how EXTREMELY weak you are in attacking anyone who dares to question your beliefs.It's not a factual theorem,but there are several respected legends in the sport who ALSO believe that Caro hit her wall at the Slams and had to diversify her game to win one.I don't know if you're really a phony-ass,'holy',mindless Catholic/Eastern Orthodox adherent....yet you sure act like one!You remind me of those frauds who pretend they're so pious as they make the cross gesture when passing a temple...and then swear like a possessed devil-worshipper at anyone who questions their dogma.

If you REALLY had the strength of conviction,then you wouldn't act so insecure when someone disagreed with you.Tbh,your sig is a joke and YOU'RE a joke,too...surely,e.e. cummings is rolling over in his grave cuz YOU quoted him.I'll cease quoting or referencing your posts from here on out b/c I don't have ANY respect for rigid,dogmatic weaklings like you,but we need to keep the peace here....plus I'm off to work
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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #4384
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Yep,22 and 21...a HUGE age difference.For the record,even we fans in Dinara's forum had serious doubts as to whether she was mentally strong enough to win a Slam.Her level of play dropped off noticeably even before her back injury...defensively).

plus I'm off to work
I think you're an idiot.
No one knows how Dinara's career would have concluded, if she could play.
No one knows what Caro's future holds. Or what if.. for style changes or not meeting Rory, or anything else.

Adversity happens in life. And maybe Caro doesnt view being #11 as adversity.
We will all see as the years go on.
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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #4385
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

I still believe there aren't that many years in the cards anymore. If you look at how she enjoys her life as his cheerleader...when was the last time we saw her this excited about tennis? I can hardly remember..
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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #4386
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
I think you're an idiot.
No one knows how Dinara's career would have concluded, if she could play.
No one knows what Caro's future holds. Or what if.. for style changes or not meeting Rory, or anything else.

Adversity happens in life. And maybe Caro doesnt view being #11 as adversity.
We will all see as the years go on.
Exactly, now it's easy to speculate about what could have been if she didn't get injured.
Besides I bet that those people who are still insisting on the fact that Caro would never had a chance to win a slam would probably laugh if someone told them that a player like her would manage to achieve 2 year-ends no.1s and twelve titles in the course of 2 seasons.

I think that Dinara's fall was mainly due to mental pressure which she struggled with. She really did not know how to handle the awkward questions from the media and I was always under an impression that she was desperately trying to prove herself.
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Old Oct 11th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #4387
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Exactly, now it's easy to speculate about what could have been if she didn't get injured.
Besides I bet that those people who are still insisting on the fact that Caro would never had a chance to win a slam would probably laugh if someone told them that a player like her would manage to achieve 2 year-ends no.1s and twelve titles in the course of 2 seasons.

I think that Dinara's fall was mainly due to mental pressure which she struggled with. She really did not know how to handle the awkward questions from the media and I was always under an impression that she was desperately trying to prove herself.
Your second paragraph above is especially on point,and it's sad truth that we had to confront in Dinara's forum.Many of us believe that she would've sprung that final hurdle if she'd had that self-belief,and it was frustrating b/c we couldn't figure out WHY she had so much self-doubt...perhaps she always felt inferior and in Marat's shadow.Lord only knows

As for the first paragraph,once again you're right in that we can only speculate...but that's NOT what I saw elsewhere earlier....I had to read some whiny,ranting,pre-menstrual b.s. about how anyone who doubted Caro's playing style was no better than a GM-based hater...as if it were some rock-solid certainty that she'd reach Slam glory--and that no one,except a hater,in their right mind should doubt that.

Just so there's no confusion,I don't question the plausibility that Caro MIGHT have managed to break through w/o changes to her game,but the fact that she was young and reached Slam semis--and 1 1/2 finals(depending on whether we classify YEC as a Slam)--is NOT definitive deductive logic that should persuade any doubter.It's not a BAD argument in Caro's favor,yet it's FAR from conclusive...as we saw,Dinara had even MORE success,yet she wasn't 'close' in the truest sense...and then we have Hingis who actually DID reach Slam glory and should've won the calendar Slam in 1997(pissing it away with a lackluster effort vs. Majoli).Some might say that Martina's game was somewhat more diverse than peak Caro's,though she never quite duplicated her earlier greatness once Davenport,Capriati and the WS ascended in the rankings and raised their levels.A 1990s Martina fan had even more reason than WE did for predicting future glory,but it just didn't happen due to various factors.Lastly,it's not unfair to ponder how the improvements made by current rivals(including SW's return from health problems) have been a similar impediment to what Caro's idol faced from opponents when the 90s ended
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #4388
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Hopman Cup field has been announced and, rather unsurprising, no Caro. Too bad, last year's event was fun, I really wonder why she's so against playing doubles...she pretty much avoids it like the plague.
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 12:37 AM   #4389
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
Hopman Cup field has been announced and, rather unsurprising, no Caro. Too bad, last year's event was fun, I really wonder why she's so against playing doubles...she pretty much avoids it like the plague.
Anyway, next January is the next major. And I think this whole hardcourt run from AO thru Miami is pretty big for her. Thats her surface and she was excellent in 2011. Even this year, AO QF & Miami SF, Dubai SF are not bad.
A fast start in 2013 would be a good sign.
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #4390
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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I really wonder why she's so against playing doubles...she pretty much avoids it like the plague.
Am only guessing here,but do you think that she might not enjoy having to rely on a partner on court??I have no idea how common those sentiments are,yet there are surely at least a few top players who feel that way,and it's not the sort of comment that most players would dare to make publicly.It could be perceived as being selfish or egotistical by many,even though that's not necessarily the case,of course
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #4391
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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I still believe there aren't that many years in the cards anymore. If you look at how she enjoys her life as his cheerleader...when was the last time we saw her this excited about tennis? I can hardly remember..
She does look very happy, whenever she's on a golf court. On a tennis court, not so much. We'll see, but I think you'd have to be near blind not to notice the difference in her demeanor on the different types of courts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmie48 View Post
Hopman Cup field has been announced and, rather unsurprising, no Caro. Too bad, last year's event was fun, I really wonder why she's so against playing doubles...she pretty much avoids it like the plague.
Especially with Frederik Nielsen now a Wimbledon champ. But from her comments, she'd want to play Brisbane this year instead of Sydney and Brisbane overlaps Hopmans Cup.

Last year was first time ever, I even bothered to watch Hopmans Cup. Shame she didn't prioritize the event this year. Olympics year or not.
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #4392
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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I still believe there aren't that many years in the cards anymore. If you look at how she enjoys her life as his cheerleader...when was the last time we saw her this excited about tennis? I can hardly remember..
Surely this is in part due to her results though. You're not going to be enjoying yourself if your losing early every week when you were number 1 a year ago. I suppose you could argue either way though, because in my opinion I also don't really see that spark or fire in Caro's eye and demeanour that she is desperate to make it better (think Nadal end of 2009 when he was in terrible form, but you could see that determination and passion still). Caro doesn't really give off that vibe to me.

I for one would think it would be a step forward for Caro to even admit there is a problem. She just spins answers into positive PR bs answers. It's ok to do this if it's at 1 or 2 tournaments. But she's been doing it nearly every tournament for a year. It's hard to believe she believes what she is saying (and you'd fear for her if she does). You just don't get the sense of someone determined to return to the top and make everything better. To me she often just comes across as confused and lacking clear direction (and you see this in her coaching switches too).
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #4393
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Very few players win slams early in their careers, of the current generation.
Only Vika & Petra have won slams of all players under 25.
And Caroline was having a ton of success.
But its not just the change in style. If you read her last few tweets, she's having a lot of fun away from tennis, so maybe she needs a softer schedule for another year or 2, until she's ready to recommitt to being her best
Well, it's not a crime to lots of fun away from tennis. I'm sure she's not the only player out there having lots of fun away from tennis to avoid the routine of traveling, training and playing matches 24/7 becoming a drag. We don't know for a fact that Caroline isn't committed to be the best she can be either. We get that impression when she follows Rory around when he plays a golf tournament, but watching golf isn't necessarily a worse pasttime than going to the movies or concerts or go shopping - things other players (and pre-Rory Caroline herself) maybe prefer to do away from tennis. Besides, Rory also follows Caroline around playing tennis, and he also seems to have lots of fun doing so. He nevertheless is having the best season of his life. Caroline's slump may nevertheless be the result of her relationship with Rory, but we're just guessing. It could just as easily be the result of the criticism by pundits of her game, and the confusion (and thus also lack of confidence) about what she should do - be a defender, an offensive player, or something in the middle, and how she should go about achieving that.
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #4394
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
Just so there's no confusion,I don't question the plausibility that Caro MIGHT have managed to break through w/o changes to her game,but the fact that she was young and reached Slam semis--and 1 1/2 finals(depending on whether we classify YEC as a Slam)--is NOT definitive deductive logic that should persuade any doubter.It's not a BAD argument in Caro's favor,yet it's FAR from conclusive...as we saw,Dinara had even MORE success,yet she wasn't 'close' in the truest sense...and then we have Hingis who actually DID reach Slam glory and should've won the calendar Slam in 1997(pissing it away with a lackluster effort vs. Majoli).Some might say that Martina's game was somewhat more diverse than peak Caro's,though she never quite duplicated her earlier greatness once Davenport,Capriati and the WS ascended in the rankings and raised their levels.A 1990s Martina fan had even more reason than WE did for predicting future glory,but it just didn't happen due to various factors.Lastly,it's not unfair to ponder how the improvements made by current rivals(including SW's return from health problems) have been a similar impediment to what Caro's idol faced from opponents when the 90s ended
Well, if Hingis had won that FO final against Graf and her second AO final against Capriati - two slam finals she SHOULD have won history would rate her even higher than it already does. But leaving all that aside, I think that in a way her biggest problem was that she was too good too soon for her own good, which made her kinda lazy. It's just my personal opinion, but I think that Hingis was super talented and that if she had been as eager as and willing to work as hard as a Justine Henin that she potentially could have been the most successfull player of the last fifteen years. Coulda shoulda doesn't count though, but as a Hingis fan I'm nevertheless happy with what she achieved in spite of it all.

As for the chance of a defensive Caroline winning a major is concerned - nothing is impossible, but when you consider who won some of those slams during 2010/2011 one could argue that this was her window of opportunity. Even the best Caroline from those days would find it even more difficult (although not entirely impossible) to win one competing against todays improved field. To have a real shot instead of an outside chance of winning a slam now Caroline will have to be not just as good but even better than she was back then in my opinion.
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Old Oct 12th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #4395
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Well, it's not a crime to lots of fun away from tennis. I'm sure she's not the only player out there having lots of fun away from tennis to avoid the routine of traveling, training and playing matches 24/7 becoming a drag. We don't know for a fact that Caroline isn't committed to be the best she can be either. We get that impression when she follows Rory around when he plays a golf tournament, but watching golf isn't necessarily a worse pasttime than going to the movies or concerts or go shopping - things other players (and pre-Rory Caroline herself) maybe prefer to do away from tennis. Besides, Rory also follows Caroline around playing tennis, and he also seems to have lots of fun doing so. He nevertheless is having the best season of his life. Caroline's slump may nevertheless be the result of her relationship with Rory, but we're just guessing. It could just as easily be the result of the criticism by pundits of her game, and the confusion (and thus also lack of confidence) about what she should do - be a defender, an offensive player, or something in the middle, and how she should go about achieving that.
Yeah, good points. We dont know if her form is just her. Maybe she just cant focus and play as steady as she used to.
We cant read her mind, and she should have fun off court. Thats the whole idea of having success, to enjoy it.
More time goes by, now its 14 months since she was holding 9 titles... Maybe she cant play at that level anymore, no matter what style. She might be as committed as ever, just not as mentally strong as when she was younger
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