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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 06:21 AM   #46
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

On grass courts and US courts I agree. Venus from 2007 really convinced me that noone moves better than her on grass courts and that noone can touch her on the surface with that fierce ball striking as well.
Venus is naturally the better grass courter.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 06:24 AM   #47
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesGOAT View Post
That is true but it is telling that players with only 3 or 4 slams in many cases are better than 7 slam Venus on all surfaces but grass in a time in age there are only 2 weeks of important grass tournaments a year.

Sharapova- better than Venus on clay, better than Venus indoors, overall better than Venus on outdoor hard courts.

Davenport- equal to Venus on clay, better than Venus indoors, overall better than Venus on outdoor hard courts.

Clijsters- equal or better than Venus on clay, better than Venus indoors, overall much better than Venus on outdoor hard courts

These are players with only 3/4 slams. Yet they are arguably superior to Venus everywhere except for the 1 of the 4 major surfaces with by far the least play on today, that has only 1 tournament above tier 3 level. Clay atleast has a 2 month season of many Premier level events plus the French. Indoors has no majors but numerous Premier level events throughout the year plus the year end Championships.
On Carpet I almost agreed with you 100% but Venus has 2-0 h2h with Kim on carpet just 2 less titles and Sharapova only has 1carpet title while Venus has 3 but Maroa won their only meeting indoors i think) the other surfaces there are definitley some hardcore arguments

Umm I might agree with you on Davenport and Kim on Hardcourt.....but Venus has 2 outdoor hardcourt majors just like Maria, she has the Olympics from an outdoor hardcourt, 3 Miami titles, and Stanfords, San Diegos, and New Havens(when top players like Davenport, Henin, Seles, Capriati played there) Venus has 26 Hardcourt titles while Maria only has 17. She has a better US Open record than Maria, Venus has lost to the eventual winner 8 out of her 11 losses there wihile Maria hadn't been to the quaters since 06 that was 6 years, Venus has only not made it to the quaters 4 times 1 was a withdrawl, 2 were 4th rounds, to Davenport and Kim, and this year playing the number 6th seed. So don't think Maria is better than Venus on outdoorhard courts, maybe better in Australia thats it.

In all actuality she has the same amount of Hardcourt majors as Davenport only one less Tier 1/premier Mandatory title than Davenport (while not playing Indian Wells for 11 years a which Davenport won 4 times) Venus has 1 more hard court major final apperance than Davenport And their h2h is tied 9-9 on Hardcourt (one of those being a match Venus was up 5-0 in the first set before injuring her wrist and and not wiining another game eventally retiring during the matc *Sand Diego '04) So even Davenport being better than Venus on Hardcourt is very debatable

Venus has 9 claycourt titles Davenport has 8 band Venus has 2 Tier 1 clay court titles Davenport has 0. Lindsay does lead the h2h on 1-0 but it was a three setter.

Maria did over take Venus on clay with her fluke Fench Open this year!

Kim only has 1 Tier 1/Premier Mandatory clay title with only 2 finals, Venus has 2 Tier 1/Premier Mandatory and 5 finals. Kim only has 3 clay court titles and only 3 other finals Venus has 9 clay court titles and 6 other finals. Only thing Kim has over Venus on clay is the 1 three set win in their only clay court meeting and the extra French Open final and the but it don't matter if she didn't win it

And to be totally honest Kim didn't overtake Venus on hardcourt until her comeback in 2009 cause before then Kim had only beaten Venus 2 times on hard court.

All these are facts except my last statement about Kim and Venus on hard court (I'm a little biased) So let the facts speak for themselves
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 06:33 AM   #48
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

I agree,Venus was the superior offensive player at her peak
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 06:52 AM   #49
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

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Originally Posted by Thirty All View Post
The closest we've seen the two at their best was at 2008 at Wimbledon, and we all know how that ended

Venus would dismantle Serenka with her backhand down the line, drive/swinging volleys, and all court play.

Serena would remain hopeless.

Does anyone else agree? (I know Virginie does )
I think so too,but Venus peaked so rarely that it's almost forgotten how ell she can play
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 07:19 AM   #50
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

serena all the day. Vee hits harder groundstrokes and first serves, moved a tad bit better..but against Serena that wouldn't suffice, because Serena hits plenty hard herself, is more explosive..in that she's willing to pull the trigger faster than Vee and of course the serve is eons better in disguise, reliability and placement.

Plus when it's 5-5 in a TB? Vee blinks first.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 07:21 AM   #51
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

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Originally Posted by MrProdigy555 View Post
Question: What were Serena's weaknesses when she was in peak form?! I'll wait.
Her backhand volley?
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 07:26 AM   #52
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

lol, no way
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 10:45 AM   #53
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Seems to me Serena just has a better allround game than Venus, also when both are peak.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #54
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty All View Post
The closest we've seen the two at their best was at 2008 at Wimbledon, and we all know how that ended

Venus would dismantle Serenka with her backhand down the line, drive/swinging volleys, and all court play.

Serena would remain hopeless.

Does anyone else agree? (I know Virginie does )
At first glance I thought this thread was just a tease or just a joke. But, upon further reading I came to the realization that this is simply symptomatic of the act of mental masturbation on the part of the OP and his or her Co-Hearts. At this point it time it is quite overdue for the die-hard Venus fans to let this shit go. It has been very demonstrative now, even to the likes of Stevie Wonder, that Serena is the better player of the two sisters. It is quite laughable to suggest that "the closest we've seen the two at their best was at 2008 at Wimbledon". Contrarily, the 2003 Australian Open Finals and the 2008 US Open Quarterfinals matches eclipse the 2008 Wimbledon match.

Moreover, if Serena ever peaked(something I will not subscribed to), then she was peaked at the 2002 Miami tournament. For it was at the 2002 Miami tournament's (where Serena joins Steffi Graf as the only two players in the history of the rankings to beat the number 1, 2, & 3 players for a title) semifinal match, with most every top WTA players in the stands as spectators, where Serena dismantled the Venus Williams game like no one else ever could, thereby, providing a road map as to "how to beat Venus" henceforth(primarily by attacking her second serve and the staying away from her down the line backhand).

Perhaps, you folks should review those three matches between Serena and Hingis (after which point I suspect Martina Hingis first contemplated early retirement from the sport), Serena and Venus, and Serena and Capriati, respectively.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #55
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Mods, delete this thread!!

Pretend I started it, that will make it easier to delete!!!
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #56
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Peak Venus beats Peak Serena and we all know Peak Masha beats Peak Venus.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #57
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

What is this Serenka business? Why are people pretending that Serena is named like a white, russian girl ?
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #58
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by laj View Post
.... At this point in time it is quite overdue for the die-hard Venus fans to let this shit go. It has been very demonstrative now, even to the likes of Stevie Wonder, that Serena is the better player of the two sisters. It is quite laughable to suggest that "the closest we've seen the two at their best was at 2008 at Wimbledon". Contrarily, the 2003 Australian Open Finals and the 2008 US Open Quarterfinals matches eclipse the 2008 Wimbledon match.

Moreover, if Serena ever peaked(something I will not subscribed to), then she was peaked at the 2002 Miami tournament. For it was at the 2002 Miami tournament's (where Serena joins Steffi Graf as the only two players in the history of the rankings to beat the number 1, 2, & 3 players for a title) semifinal match, with most every top WTA players in the stands as spectators, where Serena dismantled the Venus Williams game like no one else ever could, thereby, providing a road map as to "how to beat Venus" henceforth(primarily by attacking her second serve and the staying away from her down the line backhand).

Perhaps, you folks should review those three matches between Serena and Hingis (after which point I suspect Martina Hingis first contemplated early retirement from the sport), Serena and Venus, and Serena and Capriati, respectively.
nut said! We can retire this thread now!
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #59
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Clearly.

The logic is simple.

Lena D. is the greatest player ever.

Venus has a better record against Lena than Serena.

Therefore, peak Venus is better than peak Serena.

Honestly, I don't know why I even have to explain these things.
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Old Oct 9th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #60
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Re: Peak Venus would destroy Peak Serenka in straight sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelesGOAT View Post
What a joke. Venus is probably the most overrated player of the last 10 years. Without what is these days amounts to a tiny 4 week grass court season (basically 2 weeks for most) her career would be easily trumped not only by Henin and Hingis but by the likes of Davenport, Clijsters, Sharapova, even Capriati. Peak Venus would beat peak Serena in straight sets? Really is that why the only time in her career she made 4 slam finals in a row, the only time in her career she wasnt rendered a total joke at the Australian and French Opens, she lost all 4 to Serena, winning only 1 of the 9 sets. Yeah end of.
I agree completely that Venus is (along with Maria) the most overrated player in the game by FAR. As you said every 3x Slam champion is equal or better than her on all surfaces except grass. That's just insane and proves how much of a one-dimensional and one-surface wonder she is. Furthermore when she was at her peak she never gave other top players beat-downs the way Serena does. Her most dominant scorelines were something like 6-4 6-2 or whatever, and usually matches where she relied on 45 unforced errors from her opponent. Conversely Venus has been straight up embarrassed in big matches so many times I've lost count.

To suggest her peak is anywhere near the peak of Serena's is laughable. Let's look at her game. Her serve is nowhere near as good as Serena's, especially her 2nd serve. Her forehand looks amateur in comparison. Venus can't lob, slice, or drop-shot at all. Their backhand is about equal. She does nothing better and most things way worse.
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