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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 11:20 PM   #4291
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
The question really is: Why did she make these changes, that have so many of you thinking she's going to slink off into retirement?
When she lost to Cibulkova at Wimbledon 2011, she was holding 9 titles & #1 by 3000 points.
Why make drastic changes? Why put yourself in this situation without going with your best stuff?

Its almost like she planned to ruin her career. That decision to give away her consistency makes no sense now, and made no sense then
It makes sense if she wants to, you know, have a shot at winning a slam.

She's not gonna win slams by hugging the baseline or winning small, peripheral tournaments.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #4292
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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She's also the most distracted when it comes to her private life.
Maybe that's a good thing. Getting all that first love stuff over with. It was going to happen sooner or later.
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Old Oct 4th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #4293
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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It makes sense if she wants to, you know, have a shot at winning a slam.

She's not gonna win slams by hugging the baseline or winning small, peripheral tournaments.
She was in a slam final, and 1 point from a 2nd with her old style.
She also was winning premiers, a lot of them.
Now she lost 1st round in 2 majors in a row and hasnt been in a premier final for 14 months.
She could have improved her forehand, serve and volley without being so inconsistent and reckless.
But thats history now.

Ultimately, how she does from 2013 on will tell the tale.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #4294
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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She was in a slam final, and 1 point from a 2nd with her old style.
You're being intellectually dishonest with the way you keep clinging to that superficial argument,Goldenlox.Just because someone reaches a final doesn't mean that he/she was 'close to winning it'.I recall SB 27 when Buffalo first played Dallas;using YOUR argument,Buffalo was 'close to winning',yet the score was 52-17 in Dallas' favor,and that doesn't even tell the story of how Dallas made a couple sloppy mistakes that prevented them from winning by something like 66-10.Buffalo played in a weaker conference that year and they weren't the second-best team in the NFL by ANY stretch;Dallas met much stiffer competition in the playoffs prior to even reaching that SB.

In the same sense,Caro never had ANY firm control of the match in that final vs. Clijsters;only a fluke injury default from Kim would've given Caro that Slam.....and,even if she HAD had a stronger serve or some attacking weapons to put away a sharp Li more easily(which her passive style was an impediment against),there's no reason whatsoever to believe that she would've taken THAT subsequent Slam final,either.

This is not to say that I didn't enjoy Caro's previous successes(which I most certainly DID),and I cringe at the thought that a failure of confidence might push her away from the sport(not that I strongly believe that or anything).However,I'm not gonna play absurd revisionist history by saying that my fave was an eyelash away from winning a Slam....It's not even a well-thought sporting premise that any team/player who reaches a final is always in the same class as the champion who wins it.If you didn't like the NFL analogy,then let's go to the RG final from the 80s when Graf annihilated Zvereva in a double bagel that lasted what seemed about 15 minutes or so.Are you going to tell us that Zvereva was 'close to winning a Slam',too

In theory,Caro could've beaten some weaker Slam finalist,such as an Errani,but all THAT would've done was make her a nominal,one-time champ.She wasn't ever going to be a consistent,dominant force at Slams with a style of play that had her waiting hopefully for others to make an UE,and none of the truly great baseliners have been that passive.Unless you're asserting that asinine idea that Caro is some dizzy airhead who was brainwashed by hostile tennis media,it stands to reason that SHE knows/knew her capabilities far better than you or I do,and she began making changes cuz she wasn't satisfied with being a bridesmaid.Whether she fails to smoothly implement aggression into her game...or runs off with Rory partly due to discouragement over her results...neither scenario alters the fact that waiting for in-form players to self-destruct is NOT a sound formula for winning Slams or dominating a sport over any sort of long term
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #4295
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by kman View Post
It makes sense if she wants to, you know, have a shot at winning a slam.

She's not gonna win slams by hugging the baseline or winning small, peripheral tournaments.
If she plays aggressively she might never win a slam neither. Her slam results this year, when she tried to be play more attacking tennis, are nothing to be thrilled about.
Also, WTA events are not small peripheral tournaments. WTA tour is a highest level in pro competition.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 08:11 AM   #4296
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
She was in a slam final, and 1 point from a 2nd with her old style.
She also was winning premiers, a lot of them.
Now she lost 1st round in 2 majors in a row and hasnt been in a premier final for 14 months.
She could have improved her forehand, serve and volley without being so inconsistent and reckless.
But thats history now.

Ultimately, how she does from 2013 on will tell the tale.
Exactly,with the old style she was doing well at all kind of events which shows that was a way forward. There's no guarantee that it would win her a slam and at the same time there's no guarantee it wouldn't. Waiting for opponents errors may be seen as inferior style to some but the results of players who opt for it show that this style also works.
Caro is a good example of that. She won some really tough battles thanks to opponents UEs. She did slip at slams,true,but was definitely closer to the victories than she's now, when she tries to hit winners.

If she kept on playing the old way she'd have a much better 2012 and, who knows, maybe would succeed at slams,too.
But now it's kind of back to square one.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #4297
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Its not just the old style. Its also effort level.
If she wanted to make the YEC, there were 2 Premiers in US after Wimbledon. Coco Vandeweghe was in one final & Cibulkova won the other.
Instead of taking a month vacation after losing round 1 at Wimbledon & losing round 1 Eastbourne, she should have gone straight to the US and played 2 Premiers that had Intl level fields.

Thats just as worrisome as all the sloppy errors at key moments and the losses that were close and might have been wins if she played steadier.
Its the 'want to'. You have to want it bad, and going 2 full months without a match win in the middle of the season while healthy, you dont deserve to be playing in the YEC

All the errors, and vacations, it comes down to the mental side. She still can physical play at a high level. She has to fight for it while playing smart.
At break point when you get a short lob return, you cant muff that point. Any weekend hacker would let that bounce, see where Aga was standing, and tap it in the open court

But this year is over, except that she can finish with some wins while not playing the YEC.
Next year we'll see how much she wants it. Starting with the AO
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 10:34 AM   #4298
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
...

ThZvereva was 'close to winning a Slam',too

...
Caro was up a break in the 3rd vs Kim in the YEC final in 2010. At that time, from summer of 2010 to spring of 2011, only Caro & Kim won everything above Tier 2, and this one time they played during those 9 months, it was very close.
Plus Caro is a lot younger than Kimwith much more career in front of her.
So I disagree that she was a weak slam finalist.
I do think now, there's avery good chance that will be her only slam final, only YEC final.
But thats up to Caro. Its her career
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #4299
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlox View Post
Its not just the old style. Its also effort level.
If she wanted to make the YEC, there were 2 Premiers in US after Wimbledon. Coco Vandeweghe was in one final & Cibulkova won the other.
Instead of taking a month vacation after losing round 1 at Wimbledon & losing round 1 Eastbourne, she should have gone straight to the US and played 2 Premiers that had Intl level fields.

Thats just as worrisome as all the sloppy errors at key moments and the losses that were close and might have been wins if she played steadier.
Its the 'want to'. You have to want it bad, and going 2 full months without a match win in the middle of the season while healthy, you dont deserve to be playing in the YEC

All the errors, and vacations, it comes down to the mental side. She still can physical play at a high level. She has to fight for it while playing smart.
At break point when you get a short lob return, you cant muff that point. Any weekend hacker would let that bounce, see where Aga was standing, and tap it in the open court

But this year is over, except that she can finish with some wins while not playing the YEC.
Next year we'll see how much she wants it. Starting with the AO
We recently had this disagreement but I don't think that it was a mistake for Caroline to take a break after Wimbledon. Her schedule in 2012 was just as heavy as it was in 2010 and 2011, players can play too much and wear themselves out. True, she isn't having deep runs and she's played far fewer matches this season but the travel also takes a toll on players. You also need to consider the reality that even if she had played those two small premiers that she may have lost early. How much good would that have done her going in to the bigger premier events and the U.S. Open? Most people seem to agree that Caroline played too much in the 2011 clay season and that she didn't have much left at Roland Garros, I think something similar may have happened if she had played Stanford and/or Carlsbad and then the Olympics/Montreal/Cincinnati/New Haven/U.S. Open. That is an awful lot of tennis/travel.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #4300
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

One positive about this year is that it wasnt a hard year. She had a lot of vacation time, and should have fresh legs and no burnout next year
But thats tennis. If you're doing well, you have to play long hard weeks with tough matches against good players.
When you lose early all year, thats not a problem
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #4301
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman View Post
It makes sense if she wants to, you know, have a shot at winning a slam.

She's not gonna win slams by hugging the baseline or winning small, peripheral tournaments.
Hugging the baseline sounds like a pretty good idea to me. It's spending too much time two meters behind the baseline that gets her in trouble and will take it's toll physically in the long run.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #4302
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by marineblue View Post
Exactly,with the old style she was doing well at all kind of events which shows that was a way forward. There's no guarantee that it would win her a slam and at the same time there's no guarantee it wouldn't. Waiting for opponents errors may be seen as inferior style to some but the results of players who opt for it show that this style also works.
Caro is a good example of that. She won some really tough battles thanks to opponents UEs. She did slip at slams,true,but was definitely closer to the victories than she's now, when she tries to hit winners.

If she kept on playing the old way she'd have a much better 2012 and, who knows, maybe would succeed at slams,too.
But now it's kind of back to square one.
Well, I don't think that anyone, not even the biggest supporters of Sanchez or TJ think that she should drastically change what in the past has been a winning formula for her. But everyone always works on certain aspects of their game and tries to improve whatever weakness they have. Radwanska has improved her serve and offensive game over the last year or so, Sharapova moves around the court much better than she used to in the past, Nadal has improved his serve - even Federer now makes use of the dropshot much more than he did in the previous decade. I don't see why Caroline shouldn't try to add to her game as well, just like everyone else does.

The idea that she should improve her forehand in particular sounds logical to me. And as we can see it's clearly a better shot when she steps into it and takes it on. True, it might result in a few more UE, but what's the difference between making an UE yourself and putting a ball halfway up the court that the opponent will just put away? At the very least Caroline should be able to put away halfcourt balls herself with that forehand instead of giving her opponent still a play on the ball. Every other top player can do that, even the ones that are not power hitters.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #4303
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

For those "FANS" that think that CW's Rory romance is ruining her game, don't hold your breath waiting for an imminent breakup. Maybe better to find a new player to follow ??

I heard some gossip from a golf Pro yesterday. It seems that Rory after selling his property in N Ireland, has bought a property in or near Monaco and has got the Irish guy Ron forgot last name?? Pro Golf course architect who designed the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club course, to design a similar practice setup to the one he had in NI.
House with presumably quite a bit of land.

They were only interested in Golf and the technical aspects and had never heard of CW, so couldn't say if she would be moving in or what.
But anyway unless they think of themselves as a pretty permanent item why go there?
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 12:10 PM   #4304
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

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I heard some gossip from a golf Pro yesterday. It seems that Rory after selling his property in N Ireland, has bought a property in or near Monaco and has got the Irish guy Ron forgot last name?? Pro Golf course architect who designed the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club course, to design a similar practice setup to the one he had in NI.
House with presumably quite a bit of land.
A property in Monaco with the land to built your own golf course? Hmmm. Colour me skeptical. I have a vivid imagination, but trying to image what such a property (if at all exits) would trade for, has made me dizzy.

Around Monaco would be in France or Italy. Wonderful area on both sides, but defies the purpose of Monaco (tax haven) and with France' new top tax and wealth tax, I 'd find it hard to believe, either Caro or Rory or both will take domicile in France. Italy. Not much better.
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Old Oct 5th, 2012, 12:18 PM   #4305
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Re: Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 5

I thought they were heading for Florida?

Whatever, I have no hope regarding this ending anytime soon. And as far as finding other players, that's not necessary, but I do have to say, I have adjusted my expectations (and subsequentially my enthusiasm) in the past few months.

Until a year or so ago, I was 100% convinced that she was determined to become one of the greatest players. You know, win slam finals, reach three digit #1 weeks etc. I would have bet money on that simply because she wanted it so much.

Those days are gone, her determination has taken a visible hit and so has my hope of her ever getting there. I think this has happened to pretty much all of us in in here in some form of another. If you look at how the reactions have changed during the past 12 months, even 1R losses are mostly met by "meh" these days.

Once she really starts caring again, I'm happy to go along. This is kind of a two-way street, if an athlete tries it's easy to be excited... but disappearing to the golf course after a R1 slam loss isn't really the way to keep your fans' spirits up.
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