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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #271
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by mistymore View Post
Yes that is why she lost over half of her combined career matches to Clijsters, Henin, and Mauresmo. Those 3 were known as such big "power" players, LOL! She also lost three times to Patty Schnyder, and had a couple other 3 setters vs her, and Schnyder in power hitting makes Hingis look like Serena. Even back in 1998 she was having trouble with Schnyder before Schnyder fell off the map entirely in 1999 for a few years. She has also lost at Wimbledon to Dokic, Ruano Pascual and to Sugiyama, more tall huge power players for you. She has numerous losses to the power hitting Coetzer at 5"1. She has lost most of her matches on clay to Conchita "moonb.....errr I meant powerball" Martinez.
Martinez had very good forehand. Have you ever even seen her play? Btw, Martina was 11-3 vs Martinez and 10-2 vs Coetzer. Yeah, those players were really problematic to her.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #272
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
Talent doesn't make you a great champion.
Hard work, perseverance and strength of will are all as important as talent.

That's why Hingis will never be considered on the same level of Venus, Henin, or Serena.
Fair enough. So that is also why Serena will never be considered on the same level of Evert, Court, Graf or Navratilova. Good to have that estabilished, it keeps the yappering at much lower levels now.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #273
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by NashaMasha View Post
How many Slams would Hingis have won if Graf hadn't been injured in 97-98? probaly not more than 2-3
Given WTA injury-o-rama of the last 10 years, with various elite players taking huge layouts because of injuries and tiredness, this is probably not the best argument to pull out.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #274
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

no
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #275
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

Quote:
Given WTA injury-o-rama of the last 10 years, with various elite players taking huge layouts because of injuries and tiredness, this is probably not the best argument to pull out.
Ok , who was absent (among contenders) because of injury at Wimbledon 2004, Us Open 2006 , AO 2008 and FO 2012?

Same for Venus's titles

Graf won all Slams she played in 1995 and 1996 , if not Steffi's injury Hingis would have been "Caroline Wozniacki" of the 90s
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #276
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Adi1987 View Post
Let me give my 2 cents on this.

The Good :-

1)She had an innate sense of good court positioning.
2)She had good hands in the sense, she could control the ball really well.
3)Her shot making skills were advanced beyond her years.

The Bad :-

1)She however wasn't an athlete and more importantly showed no desire to whip herself up upto the standards required ala Henin .
2)Her strokes lacked raquet head speed to compensate for her lack of power.
3)Her quick rise to the top, didn't allow to take in the difficult lessons all great players have to learn in order to win in the long run i.e how to deal with stress when things are not going your way, when to make changes when, what you are doing is not giving you the results, how to deal with failures etc etc..
5)She took things for granted and ignored the reality around her during the critical 97-99 period. She could not gauge that her competition were taller, stronger and more athletic than she was and they would soon surpass her if she didn't hit the gym.




As one can see the Bad outnumber the Good. At the end of the day it's all very sad. Goes to show early promise of talent does not necessarily deliver results in the long run.
Good, well written post. But what happened to reason #4 on Hingis's BAD list?

And the thread robustly continues.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #277
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by AcesHigh View Post
Talent doesn't make you a great champion.
Hard work, perseverance and strength of will are all as important as talent.

That's why Hingis will never be considered on the same level of Venus, Henin, or Serena.
Well, she is considered by many in the same league.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #278
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by NashaMasha View Post
Graf won all Slams she played in 1995 and 1996 , if not Steffi's injury Hingis would have been "Caroline Wozniacki" of the 90s
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 09:09 PM   #279
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Matías. View Post
Well, she is considered by many in the same league.
Sssh. Please don't tell them that a girl who retired at 22 still spent more weeks at the No. 1 than the 31- and 32-year old Williams sisters and 25-year-old Maria Sharapova COMBINED.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #280
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Excelscior View Post
What happened to reason #4 on Hingis's BAD list?
It OD'd
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #281
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Petronius View Post
Sssh. Please don't tell them that a girl who retired at 22 still spent more weeks at the No. 1 than the 31- and 32-year old Williams sisters and 25-year-old Maria Sharapova COMBINED.

Than Woz is greater than Venus, Arantxa, Jennifer and Kim combined

Do you understand that your statement is as delusional as Hitler in his bunker?
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 01:51 AM   #282
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Timariot View Post
I'm sorry, what the hell is your point again? Of course if you carefully select a period to suit your argument you can prove anything. Hey, how many Slam finals Venus won in 1997-99? Gee, whatta sucky player.

Why don't you try this: between 1997 and 2001, Hingis won most tournaments, spend most times as #1, made most Slam finals and coincidentally, also won most Slam finals of all the players even though it involves two whole years when she won no Slams at all, so you can't accuse me of cherrypicking! Sure, she may not have been "dominant" over that entire period, but clearly her results were the best.



Yep, she so shamelessly waxed Venus 6-1 6-1 in AO semifinal, when Venus was at her absolute career peak. Did you watch that?



What, you seriously expect me to maintain some sort of stats database?
Your arguments are beyond weak, Timariot. And our debate concluded three pages ago.

And by the way, since you saw fit to avoid the vast majority of my questions, I have nothing left to say to you.
"Time" is a valuable commodity in my neck of the woods, and I've no more to spare on you..

Ta-ta.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 02:16 AM   #283
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

This is the biggest troll thread ever All the Hingis haters lined up like ducks

BTW Graf's rival was stabbed, Serena's best rivals retired in their early 20s (THREE OF THEM!), Henin vultured in the absence of WS, Sharapova's last two Slams are among the most vultured Slams of all time, Clijsters gets tons of shit for her competition etc. Basically it is rare for all top players to be healthy all the time, and a record of 6 straight AO finals, 5 straight RG semis, 5 straight USO semis, 2 YEC titles, years at #1 ranking, and the best Tier I record of this entire generation speaks for itself. That she only has 5 Slams with records like those is absolutely ASTONISHING, and a clear mark of an insanely gifted underachiever.

So I don't at all understand how someone could POSSIBLY say Hingis is "overrated" after looking up her accomplishments unless they are a delusional, obsessed hater. This thread has plenty of those for sure It's also not as if anyone, even Hingis fans, rate her athleticism or work ethic at the same level as her contemporaries. But that really proves my point; despite being shorter, weaker, lazier, less motivated, and less interested than all Slam winners in her generation, Hingis' career is more accomplished (or equally/comparably accomplished) than all of them except Serena. That alone proves her immense tennis talent.

Also, RDV or whatever that sad troll is named: that was the best match Serena has ever played in her entire career, and still Hingis managed to win five games which is more than players like Maria, Justine, Venus, Jennifer, Azarenka etc. can say, as they all have suffered more embarrassing losses to a Serena playing only half that level. I fail to see how one loss to a zoned-out Serena means Hingis was "over-powered" on a consistent basis. After RG 99, where Hingis served for match:

W99 -- tank
USO 99 -- Hingis choked 2 set points w/easy errors, would have had vast momentum in 3rd set against tired, inexperienced Rena
AO 2000 -- Hingis WAS overpowered for half the match, then battled to a TB, once again had momentum but UEd the match away
RG 2000 -- Hingis implodes in UEs against player she owns
W 2000 -- in words of Davenport, "I've never seen Martina play so passive", despite this she takes Venus to 4-6 in third set on grass
USO 2000 -- Hingis HUGE choke on smash to give 2 MPs, then hits tons of UEs to lose match
AO 2001 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
RG 2001 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
W 2001 -- injured
USO 2001 -- Serena plays best match of career, making 100% of first serves after first couple games
AO 2002 -- Hingis hit more winners and errors than opponent, once again implodes in errors to lose (bad fitness)
RG & W 2002 -- DNP
USO 2002 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets

So the only matches where it is arguable that Hingis was overpowered was AO 2000 and USO 2001, although nobody was beating her in-the-zone opponents on those days, so to me that is not being "overpowered", it's just running into someone playing great tennis.
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #284
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by hingisGOAT View Post
W99 -- tank
USO 99 -- Hingis choked 2 set points w/easy errors, would have had vast momentum in 3rd set against tired, inexperienced Rena
AO 2000 -- Hingis WAS overpowered for half the match, then battled to a TB, once again had momentum but UEd the match away
RG 2000 -- Hingis implodes in UEs against player she owns
W 2000 -- in words of Davenport, "I've never seen Martina play so passive", despite this she takes Venus to 4-6 in third set on grass
USO 2000 -- Hingis HUGE choke on smash to give 2 MPs, then hits tons of UEs to lose match
AO 2001 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
RG 2001 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
W 2001 -- injured
USO 2001 -- Serena plays best match of career, making 100% of first serves after first couple games
AO 2002 -- Hingis hit more winners and errors than opponent, once again implodes in errors to lose (bad fitness)
RG & W 2002 -- DNP
USO 2002 -- over 40 UEs in two quick sets
I agree with many of these, also Serena is just a terrible match up for Martina, she was her Sharapova of the time, always looked extra focused & determined to win when she faced Martina. I mean that match in Miami 1999...
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Old Sep 28th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #285
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Re: Martina Hingis, overrated?

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Originally Posted by Matías. View Post
I agree with many of these, also Serena is just a terrible match up for Martina, she was her Sharapova of the time, always looked extra focused & determined to win when she faced Martina. I mean that match in Miami 1999...
Yes Serena really brought it against Martina.

But still Hingis was 6-7 against her, with quite a few of those losses coming after Martina really started to fall off the map.

All of Serena's wins came on American hard-courts BTW. Their only match on clay, Hingis gave Serena one of the most embarrassing losses of her entire career. 2-0 on Rebound Ace. They never played indoors/carpet, a surface which would have greatly favored Hingis during her first career.

BTW Hingis got screwed bad in that Miami match, got a bad call on set point in 2nd set, ended up losing.

It's actually funny how similar those Miami 99 and USO 99 matches are! Serena is zoned out for most of the first set, Hingis turns the tide in the second set, earns set points, but blow her chances. Serena wins 2nd set TB. Almost the exact same match...
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