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Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #286
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by cehowardrx7 View Post
Anabelcroft, I got an 8 pack!! And that is my private thing, but when those people call me a lonely old creep, I just want to show them how this 72 year old man carries it. Enough of that.
Being lonely doesn't have anything to do with the way you look

And considering your behavior here, it's very natural that you mix all sort of things and that you just don't know distinction between what we meant and what answers you gave!

For being old-this is a fact, no matter how you feel inside!

For being lonely-we can only assume, but just don't know!

As for being creepy-your behavior here is very indicative factor for most of us thinking that!Sorry
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Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #287
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Everybody, and I mean everybody, even Graf fans will admit, Graf record is questionable! We wouldn't be having these debates if it wasn't questionable, would we?
This debate and this question is between minority and majority!And that is a big difference when debating!

If her record is tainted, how, just how do you explain the fact that Graf is voted on top of every greatest thread???

If the majority share your opinion(and it is proved she doesn't), she wouldn't be where she is now-ON TOP!
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Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #288
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

cehowardrx7

I'll give you another example. They once asked Chris Evert "if someone had suddenly taken out Martina Navratilova, how many more majors do you think you would have won"?

You know Chrissies first impulse was to answer/give a number, then she immediately caught herself and said "Martina pushed her, made her work harder, KEPT HER IN THE GAME LONGER".

Evert felt, that if it wasn't for Martina, she would have actually RETIRED A LOT SOONER, cause they're would have been little to play for. But Evert admitted Martina made her work hard, and inspired her competitive juices.

Now who knows if that would have really been the case. How ever, I think it could have been the same the case that Seles having a longer career, may not had denied Graf as many Majors as some of us think (not including if Monica would have lasted that long at that level). It would/could have just made Steffi Graf play longer or get better, and she still may have had her 18-24 majors anyway.

And in Seles case (this is what people hate to hear), she wasn't seriously injured. Now, if you wanna say, "the stabbing effected her play", okay, fine. You can say that. On the other hand, if it was another player, I don't know if it would have made much difference in their performance. They would have just moved on (see Paul Pierce example). But everyone's different. And that's why some people make threads about Monica 2.0 vs 1.0 being better or Graf's or anyone else's personal problems being no different than what Seles experienced, despite the wild and unfortunate nature of her terrible incident.

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Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #289
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

I do agree had Martina not existed Chris would be the undisputed GOAT today. Not only did Martina deny her so many slams, but Martina's total and embarassingly one sided ownage of Evert for a few years at Martina's peak is the very reason nearly everyone ranks Evert below Graf, Martina, Serena, and even Court today. Basically Chris a wonderful champion is incredibly unlucky that Martina came along, more unlucky than anyone person with any one player.

Martina on the other hand is super lucky Chris existed and played so long. Chris hardly denied Martina any slams, probably only about 3 at most, and had Chris not existed the already super weak Martina era of 82-86 would have bar none the worst competition in history, Pam Shriver would have reached #2 much of that time, and people would mostly dismiss her dominance and success due to a non existent field until teenaged Graf finally came along and easily brushed Martina in her prime aside. However as it is now people say "and she faced Chris too" and gloss over the otherwise gloomy and pathetic beyond words top 10 and womens field of the Martina era, so Martina should be grateful beyond words Chris stayed in the game so long, as she is the one who helped elevated Martina's career and legacy in peoples eyes, while doing virtually no damage to it as she was prime Martina's pigeon.
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Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #290
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by Anabelcroft View Post
Being lonely doesn't have anything to do with the way you look

And considering your behavior here, it's very natural that you mix all sort of things and that you just don't know distinction between what we meant and what answers you gave!

For being old-this is a fact, no matter how you feel inside!

For being lonely-we can only assume, but just don't know!

As for being creepy-your behavior here is very indicative factor for most of us thinking that!Sorry
Well, if the way I am you all call creepy, and I think that is my view on Graf, I want to be creepy for the rest of my life!!! In addition, all those peeps at the racetrack, gym, and on canyon motorcycle rides, all say they hope to be half of what I am when they get my age, I am going to tell them, don't be like me!!

The only reason I showed personal stuff was because of the creepy comments, and the one where I have to ---- off looking at girls pictures. I have no problems in that area, even at 72..And what really got to me, the person that called me a creep, I wish they would post a pic of themselves, then we would really see what a creep looks like.

My views on Graf will never change. I am correct, and any fair-minded and reasoning person can see I am correct. Not going to call you all creepy or freaky because you all have a different view. I am just going to say you are all wrong. Simple as taht.. Sorry...
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Old Sep 26th, 2012, 11:59 PM   #291
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Yes, a toast. I didn't even realize (I think) they had that Icon.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 12:09 AM   #292
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by mistymore View Post
I do agree had Martina not existed Chris would be the undisputed GOAT today. Not only did Martina deny her so many slams, but Martina's total and embarassingly one sided ownage of Evert for a few years at Martina's peak is the very reason nearly everyone ranks Evert below Graf, Martina, Serena, and even Court today. Basically Chris a wonderful champion is incredibly unlucky that Martina came along, more unlucky than anyone person with any one player.

Martina on the other hand is super lucky Chris existed and played so long. Chris hardly denied Martina any slams, probably only about 3 at most, and had Chris not existed the already super weak Martina era of 82-86 would have bar none the worst competition in history, Pam Shriver would have reached #2 much of that time, and people would mostly dismiss her dominance and success due to a non existent field until teenaged Graf finally came along and easily brushed Martina in her prime aside. However as it is now people say "and she faced Chris too" and gloss over the otherwise gloomy and pathetic beyond words top 10 and womens field of the Martina era, so Martina should be grateful beyond words Chris stayed in the game so long, as she is the one who helped elevated Martina's career and legacy in peoples eyes, while doing virtually no damage to it as she was prime Martina's pigeon.
I to feel Chrissie was indisputably, one of the all time best tennis players ever. However, I also agree, that Chrissie getting her ass kicked, up and down the world by Nav's (once she got in shape, her mind and body together), made everyone forget Chrissie's dominant numbers, while only remembering Martina's dominant play and seemingly more dominant play over Evert.

The irony is, despite all those latter losses to Martina, Chrissie's all time numbers compare very favorably to Nav's anyway. That's how great Chrissie was.

Despite them taking turns in their periods of dominance,it was also due to the fact that both were specialist, and excelled in different areas (Chrissie slow, high bouncing, and Martina fast, low bouncing courts).

The major difference between Steff and Seles (compared to those two), was that Graf was an all court player and Seles was more a specialist. So ultimately, even if Seles would have won more Australians and French Opens (providing they both played a long time), Graf would have won her fair share as well. While on the other hand, Graf would have won a bunch of Wimby's, US Opens and YEC's, while Seles would have only scrapped up a few (especially with Wimby's), cause she was a much worse fast court player and could have lost to a bevy of other players not named Graf. That's the major difference.

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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #293
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Yes, a toast. I didn't even realize (I think) they had that Icon.
They don't, I imported it, I am creepy like that!!
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #294
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Originally Posted by cehowardrx7 View Post
Well, if the way I am you all call creepy, and I think that is my view on Graf.

Not going to call you all creepy or freaky because you all have a different view. I am just going to say you are all wrong. Simple as taht..
As I said, you just do not understand what we thought

Not because of your view of Graf(as you have seen there are few others that think like you) we think that you are creepy, but because of the way you express yourself...

That's a totally different thing then having an opinion and just posting it, but the way of posting and it's content give you away!

It looks like an undeveloped child(13 year old maximum) is writing instead of an old man, who should have a little more life experience and know how to express himself, presuming that he didn't grow up in a jungle and know nothing about an adult behavior
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 03:30 AM   #295
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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As I said, you just do not understand what we thought

Not because of your view of Graf(as you have seen there are few others that think like you) we think that you are creepy, but because of the way you express yourself...

That's a totally different thing then having an opinion and just posting it, but the way of posting and it's content give you away!

It looks like an undeveloped child(13 year old maximum) is writing instead of an old man, who should have a little more life experience and know how to express himself, presuming that he didn't grow up in a jungle and know nothing about an adult behavior
Anablecroft, I take that as a compliment. Through the length of my years I have found out, that being silly is one of the main ingriedents that slows aging.

I ain't never going to grow up..
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 10:17 AM   #296
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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I ain't never going to grow up..
Well, it's not about you growing up, but about your brain cells growing up a bit

You must practice and practice
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #297
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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Well, it's not about you growing up, but about your brain cells growing up a bit

You must practice and practice
Brain cells are just fine. Peeps ask me how do I roadrace, and it is precision roadracing, when my hearing and eyesight is shot? It boils down to this, my hearing and eyesight is off, but when I am doing something I love (roadracing),everything is crystal sharp. To have that kind of gift, you also have to lose something. I can't have it all. I prefer to have what I have.

On CNN, or MSNBC, they have some pictures of 3 people that were cashing a dead or missing person social security check for 30 years. They posted the picture of them. They were 68, 69 and 71. I looked at them, and oh my gawd.

Enough of that. My brain is doing just fine for a 70 years old.. Oh, I do have road rage. In my race rig, F150 and race trailer, I have took the whole unit at 95 mph, and road rage, and that is cut somebody off that just cut me off. My road senses and feel are super, super sharp. When one of thre wheels on the truck or the trailer just slip so much as a half inch, I can feel it, compensate, and do what is neccessary to maintain. Same thing on the racetrack. I am blessed with that at my age..

My driving skills are out of this world. On the race track, I see 4 or 5 turns ahead. I used that on the street, thinking 6 and 7 moves ahead.

Graf's record will always be tainted. Some say if she didn't marry Andre, nobody would even know her...
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #298
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

OK you two need to stop now.

You took a periodically off topic post, and brought it way off topic now.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #299
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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cehowardrx7

I'll give you another example. They once asked Chris Evert "if someone had suddenly taken out Martina Navratilova, how many more majors do you think you would have won"?

You know Chrissies first impulse was to answer/give a number, then she immediately caught herself and said "Martina pushed her, made her work harder, KEPT HER IN THE GAME LONGER".

Evert felt, that if it wasn't for Martina, she would have actually RETIRED A LOT SOONER, cause they're would have been little to play for. But Evert admitted Martina made her work hard, and inspired her competitive juices.

Now who knows if that would have really been the case. How ever, I think it could have been the same the case that Seles having a longer career, may not had denied Graf as many Majors as some of us think (not including if Monica would have lasted that long at that level). It would/could have just made Steffi Graf play longer or get better, and she still may have had her 18-24 majors anyway.

And in Seles case (this is what people hate to hear), she wasn't seriously injured. Now, if you wanna say, "the stabbing effected her play", okay, fine. You can say that. On the other hand, if it was another player, I don't know if it would have made much difference in their performance. They would have just moved on (see Paul Pierce example). But everyone's different. And that's why some people make threads about Monica 2.0 vs 1.0 being better or Graf's or anyone else's personal problems being no different than what Seles experienced, despite the wild and unfortunate nature of her terrible incident.

That's the thing...you guys belittle the stabbing, but to me the worst part of it: Battles should be fought on the tennis court. Let Graf vs Seles do their thing...no, Parche had to go and ruin everything. Another German looney changing history, in this case tennis history.
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Old Sep 27th, 2012, 03:29 PM   #300
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Re: Why is Graf overlooked?

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That's the thing...you guys belittle the stabbing, but to me the worst part of it: Battles should be fought on the tennis court. Let Graf vs Seles do their thing...no, Parche had to go and ruin everything. Another German looney changing history, in this case tennis history.
You are 1000% correct. Even more important is this 1000%
true hard fact. The MOTIVE of the stabber was "to advance Graf", that
is why the stabber said he stabbed Graf.

Now, all the Graf fans were to IGNORE the fact the sole purpose he stabbed Seles was to advance Graf. Graf fans want to
say that stabber doesn't know what he is talking about. WTF!!

How wrong is that??
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